AOC and Performative Socialism...do as I as say not as I do...Hypocrisy on parade!!

[offshoredrilling]

Originally Posted by Tiny

Well SpeedRacer, I guess I'm stuck in the middle with you, if you remember that old tune by Stealers Wheel.

"Well, I don't know why I came here tonight
I got the feeling that something ain't right
I'm so scared in case I fall off my chair
And I'm wondering how I'll get down the stairs
Clowns to the left of me
Jokers to the right
Here I am, stuck in the middle with you"


AOC a clown ???? as others in the left

[SpeedRacerXXX]

Originally Posted by offshoredrilling

"Well, I don't know why I came here tonight
I got the feeling that something ain't right
I'm so scared in case I fall off my chair
And I'm wondering how I'll get down the stairs
Clowns to the left of me
Jokers to the right
Here I am, stuck in the middle with you"


AOC a clown ???? as others in the left

Sounds like a fitting description of Trump when he looks around at his staff meetings.

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by offshoredrilling

"Well, I don't know why I came here tonight
I got the feeling that something ain't right
I'm so scared in case I fall off my chair
And I'm wondering how I'll get down the stairs
Clowns to the left of me
Jokers to the right
Here I am, stuck in the middle with you"


AOC a clown ???? as others in the left

In eccieuser's absence, I'm compelled to provide a link,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKQIGvULZCI

Originally Posted by SpeedRacerXXX

Sounds like a fitting description of Trump when he looks around at his staff meetings.

There are certain choices in life that should be obvious Speedracer. You can be a clown or a joker. You want to be the joker, not the clown!

[Precious_b]

Originally Posted by Yssup Rider

...

The normalization of Trump’s behavior and criminality is what allows discussions like these to “make sense.”
...

"The normalization of donnys behavior and criminality..."

*I* think that is the biggest problem with maggies.

I would hope that if AOC got into office, she would have a competent team of fiscal experts to guide the steering of the economy.

[offshoredrilling]

Originally Posted by Precious_b

"The normalization of donnys behavior and criminality..."

*I* think that is the biggest problem with maggies.

I would hope that if AOC got into office, she would have a competent team of fiscal experts to guide the steering of the economy.

Just like Joe had ????

[Precious_b]

Originally Posted by offshoredrilling

Just like Joe had ????

Yeah. According to the googly thing, here is the summation:

Public Perception vs. Data
Despite strong economic data points like low unemployment and high GDP growth under Biden, public perception often remained negative, with inflation and the high cost of living being primary concerns for voters. Polls in late 2024 and 2025 indicated that more Americans blamed Trump for current economic problems than Biden, though a majority of voters disapproved of Trump's handling of the economy in his second term.

This was donny 1st time around. Ima gonna be merciful with you and not say anything about the way he's nose diving this place he calls 'Murica.

The only dings in that link joey has is being in the same boat as the rest of the world when it came to inflation. But this country did better than alot of other places there. And the second was wages weren't as robust.

All the other points show your orange crush doing hellua worse.

So yes, if I had to, i'd take joeys economic advisors. But I would hope AOC would get some on par or better.

Now y'all maggies gotta stop getting caught up in the perceived, like your fearless leader tells you not to (i.e. those nasty old references to the Epstein files) and go with unbiased numbers from sources that have a history of shooting straight in the goverment...not the ones donny leans on to make him look good.

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by Precious_b

I would hope that if AOC got into office, she would have a competent team of fiscal experts to guide the steering of the economy.

That's the problem Precious_b, she wouldn't. Her favorite "fiscal expert" is Stephane Kelton, who believes deficits don't matter. There's a pretty good chance if she got her way that the USA would end up with hyperinflation. Here's what Google gives me when I enter "AOC Stephane Kelton".

Economist Stephanie Kelton and Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (AOC) are closely linked through their promotion of Modern Monetary Theory (MMT) to support progressive policy goals.

Key Connection: Modern Monetary Theory (MMT)

AOC has been a high-profile proponent of MMT, which Kelton—a Stony Brook University professor and former advisor to Bernie Sanders—is a leading expert on.

Funding Progressive Goals: AOC has cited MMT principles to argue that the U.S. government can afford large-scale programs like the Green New Deal or universal healthcare without strictly "paying for" them through immediate tax increases.

The "Oprah Effect": Kelton credited AOC with bringing MMT into the mainstream, noting that AOC’s comments created an "Oprah effect" that caused public interest and Google searches for the theory to spike.

Collaborations: The two appeared together on the podcast Deconstructed in March 2020 to discuss using MMT-informed strategies to save the U.S. economy during the COVID-19 pandemic.

Core Shared Ideas

Deficit Spending: Both argue that federal deficits are not inherently dangerous for a country that issues its own currency (like the U.S.).

Inflation as the Real Limit: Rather than being limited by a "budget," Kelton and AOC argue that the only real constraint on government spending is the risk of inflation, which occurs when the economy’s resources (labor and materials) are fully utilized.

Taxes' Real Purpose: In their view, taxes are not needed to "fund" the government but are instead tools to control inflation and address wealth inequality.

Critical Reception

While their collaboration has energized progressives, it has faced significant pushback from mainstream economists and political rivals. Critics argue that MMT-based policies risk causing hyperinflation and that relying on the government to "print money" for massive social programs is economically irresponsible.

"Taxes aren't needed to fund the government." What kind of hocus pocus is that?

[Precious_b]

Originally Posted by Tiny

That's the problem Precious_b, she wouldn't. Her favorite "fiscal expert" is Stephane Kelton, who believes deficits don't matter. There's a pretty good chance if she got her way that the USA would end up with hyperinflation. Here's what Google gives me when I enter "AOC Stephane Kelton".

Economist Stephanie Kelton and Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (AOC) are closely linked through their promotion of Modern Monetary Theory (MMT) to support progressive policy goals.

Key Connection: Modern Monetary Theory (MMT)

AOC has been a high-profile proponent of MMT, which Kelton—a Stony Brook University professor and former advisor to Bernie Sanders—is a leading expert on.

Funding Progressive Goals: AOC has cited MMT principles to argue that the U.S. government can afford large-scale programs like the Green New Deal or universal healthcare without strictly "paying for" them through immediate tax increases.

The "Oprah Effect": Kelton credited AOC with bringing MMT into the mainstream, noting that AOC’s comments created an "Oprah effect" that caused public interest and Google searches for the theory to spike.

Collaborations: The two appeared together on the podcast Deconstructed in March 2020 to discuss using MMT-informed strategies to save the U.S. economy during the COVID-19 pandemic.

Core Shared Ideas

Deficit Spending: Both argue that federal deficits are not inherently dangerous for a country that issues its own currency (like the U.S.).

Inflation as the Real Limit: Rather than being limited by a "budget," Kelton and AOC argue that the only real constraint on government spending is the risk of inflation, which occurs when the economy’s resources (labor and materials) are fully utilized.

Taxes' Real Purpose: In their view, taxes are not needed to "fund" the government but are instead tools to control inflation and address wealth inequality.

Critical Reception

While their collaboration has energized progressives, it has faced significant pushback from mainstream economists and political rivals. Critics argue that MMT-based policies risk causing hyperinflation and that relying on the government to "print money" for massive social programs is economically irresponsible.

"Taxes aren't needed to fund the government." What kind of hocus pocus is that?

Thanks tiny. I'll check that out.

Just a knee jerk thought on it. I would not be opposed to test this theory on a smaller scale to see how things react to it.

And your last sentence, you don't think that Zimbabwe monetary policy that a previous poster youtubed would work?

[txdot-guy]

Originally Posted by Tiny

That's the problem Precious_b, she wouldn't. Her favorite "fiscal expert" is Stephane Kelton, who believes deficits don't matter. There's a pretty good chance if she got her way that the USA would end up with hyperinflation. Here's what Google gives me when I enter "AOC Stephane Kelton".

Economist Stephanie Kelton and Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (AOC) are closely linked through their promotion of Modern Monetary Theory (MMT) to support progressive policy goals.

Key Connection: Modern Monetary Theory (MMT)

AOC has been a high-profile proponent of MMT, which Kelton—a Stony Brook University professor and former advisor to Bernie Sanders—is a leading expert on.

Funding Progressive Goals: AOC has cited MMT principles to argue that the U.S. government can afford large-scale programs like the Green New Deal or universal healthcare without strictly "paying for" them through immediate tax increases.

The "Oprah Effect": Kelton credited AOC with bringing MMT into the mainstream, noting that AOC’s comments created an "Oprah effect" that caused public interest and Google searches for the theory to spike.

Collaborations: The two appeared together on the podcast Deconstructed in March 2020 to discuss using MMT-informed strategies to save the U.S. economy during the COVID-19 pandemic.

Core Shared Ideas

Deficit Spending: Both argue that federal deficits are not inherently dangerous for a country that issues its own currency (like the U.S.).

Inflation as the Real Limit: Rather than being limited by a "budget," Kelton and AOC argue that the only real constraint on government spending is the risk of inflation, which occurs when the economy’s resources (labor and materials) are fully utilized.

Taxes' Real Purpose: In their view, taxes are not needed to "fund" the government but are instead tools to control inflation and address wealth inequality.

Critical Reception

While their collaboration has energized progressives, it has faced significant pushback from mainstream economists and political rivals. Critics argue that MMT-based policies risk causing hyperinflation and that relying on the government to "print money" for massive social programs is economically irresponsible.

"Taxes aren't needed to fund the government." What kind of hocus pocus is that?

That doesn’t sound a lot different than what we’ve gotten under Bush Jr and Trump.

Low taxes, massive deficit spending and no real attempt to reduce spending.

The biggest difference that I can see is that AOC wants to actually tax rich people.

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by Precious_b

Thanks tiny. I'll check that out.

Just a knee jerk thought on it. I would not be opposed to test this theory on a smaller scale to see how things react to it.

And your last sentence, you don't think that Zimbabwe monetary policy that a previous poster youtubed would work?

Oh, but it has been tested on a smaller scale Precious_b:

It turns out that MMT — or some version of it — has been tried in a number of emerging countries. Although most cases have taken place in Latin America, there have also been episodes in other parts of the world, including in Turkey and Israel. MMT-type policies were also attempted in France during the Mitterrand presidency. Almost every one of the Latin American experiments with major central bank–financed fiscal expansions took place under populist regimes, and all of them ended up badly, with runaway inflation, huge currency devaluations, and precipitous real wage declines. In most of these episodes — Argentina, Bolivia, Brazil, Chile, Ecuador, Nicaragua, Peru, and Venezuela — policymakers used arguments similar to those made by MMTers to justify extensive use of money creation to finance very large increases in public expenditures.

https://www.cato.org/cato-journal/fa...-latin-america

I didn't see the Zimbabwe video but suspect it's a good example.

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by txdot-guy

That doesn’t sound a lot different than what we’ve gotten under Bush Jr and Trump.

Low taxes, massive deficit spending and no real attempt to reduce spending.

The biggest difference that I can see is that AOC wants to actually tax rich people.

You conveniently omitted Obama and Biden. In fact, the closest we've gotten to an MMT experiment in the USA was during Biden's term. And the American people and the Democratic Party paid for it. I'd speculate that if it weren't for the resulting inflation, Trump wouldn't have been elected president last year.

You don't have to take my word for it. Lawrence Summers and Paul Krugman think MMT is voodoo. Both as you know are Democrats. And Krugman is about as partisan and far left as you can get for an economist without being looney tunes.

And yeah, AOC doesn't like rich people. She wants everyone poor. If she can get everyone sucking from the government tit then the Democratic Socialists will rule the roost.

[Precious_b]

Originally Posted by Tiny

Oh, but it has been tested on a smaller scale Precious_b:

It turns out that MMT — or some version of it — has been tried in a number of emerging countries. Although most cases have taken place in Latin America, there have also been episodes in other parts of the world, including in Turkey and Israel. MMT-type policies were also attempted in France during the Mitterrand presidency. Almost every one of the Latin American experiments with major central bank–financed fiscal expansions took place under populist regimes, and all of them ended up badly, with runaway inflation, huge currency devaluations, and precipitous real wage declines. In most of these episodes — Argentina, Bolivia, Brazil, Chile, Ecuador, Nicaragua, Peru, and Venezuela — policymakers used arguments similar to those made by MMTers to justify extensive use of money creation to finance very large increases in public expenditures.

https://www.cato.org/cato-journal/fa...-latin-america

I didn't see the Zimbabwe video but suspect it's a good example.

Yeah, AOC seems to trumpet Bernie on spending. And i'm not a fan of it.

*BUT* though they are on the other end of the political spectrum than maggies, I know they are more flexible on modifying their stance. There are things demos do that I don't like but I have to give them credit for the results of their actions (i.e. Obama bailing out auto industry.) I'll leave it to the "experts" here to tell us if the Big Auto Corporations here left the goverment holding the bag. I bet not since maggies would be screaming about it. They sure as hell ain't giving credit for it. But they usually are very quiet about giving credit to libbys.

[txdot-guy]

Originally Posted by Tiny

You conveniently omitted Obama and Biden. In fact, the closest we've gotten to an MMT experiment in the USA was during Biden's term. And the American people and the Democratic Party paid for it. I'd speculate that if it weren't for the resulting inflation, Trump wouldn't have been elected president last year.

You don't have to take my word for it. Lawrence Summers and Paul Krugman think MMT is voodoo. Both as you know are Democrats. And Krugman is about as partisan and far left as you can get for an economist without being looney tunes.

And yeah, AOC doesn't like rich people. She wants everyone poor. If she can get everyone sucking from the government tit then the Democratic Socialists will rule the roost.

I didn’t include Obama because he had to deal with the mortgage meltdown and a congress who insisted cutting spending would be good for the economy in the middle of a recession.

Biden had to deal with the pandemic.

But I agree with you that MMT is voodoo economics. Just like thinking that cutting taxes would increase revenue enough to offset the budget deficit. It never happens.

Mitt Romney just wrote a good opinion piece in the Times in which he talks about the need to cut tax loopholes and overhaul the Social Security program.

https://archive.ph/czOPV
Mitt Romney: Tax the Rich, Like Me

Here’s a telling quote from the article.

Of course, a much faster-growing economy would save us from the debt cliff. This truism has long rationalized politicians’ failure to act: Faster growth, promised with tax cuts, is always just around the corner, but we never turn that corner.

P.S. Speaking about looney tunes, thinking AOC wants everyone to be poor is simply not true. That’s looney tunes.

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by txdot-guy

I didn’t include Obama because he had to deal with the mortgage meltdown and a congress who insisted cutting spending would be good for the economy in the middle of a recession.

Biden had to deal with the pandemic.

But I agree with you that MMT is voodoo economics. Just like thinking that cutting taxes would increase revenue enough to offset the budget deficit. It never happens.

Mitt Romney just wrote a good opinion piece in the Times in which he talks about the need to cut tax loopholes and overhaul the Social Security program.

https://archive.ph/czOPV
Mitt Romney: Tax the Rich, Like Me

Here’s a telling quote from the article.

Of course, a much faster-growing economy would save us from the debt cliff. This truism has long rationalized politicians’ failure to act: Faster growth, promised with tax cuts, is always just around the corner, but we never turn that corner.

P.S. Speaking about looney tunes, thinking AOC wants everyone to be poor is simply not true. That’s looney tunes.

Correct, AOC doesn't want everyone to be poor. That's hyperbole. She does want people to be more dependent on government. When most people are doing well, her class warfare rhetoric just doesn't cut it with mainstream America.

I agree with some of Romney's points and disagree with others. As to the title, the majority of the rich already pay more than their fair share. Others, like Trump, and like Romney when he took advantage of the carried interest loophole, maybe pay less. I say maybe because I suspect they still may pay multiples more than they're getting back from the federal government.

If AOC wants her Green New Deal, she's going to have to raise taxes on everyone, because the rich don't have enough money to pay for it all.

[Salty Again]

Originally Posted by Tiny

If AOC wants her Green New Deal, she's going to have to raise taxes on everyone, because the rich don't have enough money to pay for it all.

... Nor WILL the rich pay for it all ... They won't.

Not that AOC needs to even be concerned with whatever
"green new deal" she would wish to implement. ...

... She's just not a serious candidate for President.

#### Salty