Need men to decipher this message

[Jules Jaguar]

Tigercat,

Thanks for the ummmm compliments? I never said anything about responding in a rude manor I just said I find it insulting basically for the reasons Samantha already addressed in one if her responses.

Also I agree with the point of its not what you say it's how you say it.

It's basically the same thing as you saying how you think of me, I personally don't find it offensive but I can totally see another woman getting her feelings hurt by your comments.

I do pretty well in this business and it took me a while to finally get it and learn what works best for me. obviously there are plenty of men who love it or just dont mind it just like there are ladies that are in the guys price range.

I think it's just easier to move on to something that fits better than to potentially offend someone I probably won't meet anyway but maybe that is just me.

It's easy to make the this is a business comparison but as Samantha stated this is more than just a business to most of us. Sure some providers see so many men that you are just a number of the day for them but not all of us run our business that way and some of us really care for our clients.

[samantha thom]

Originally Posted by Rehke

Why is is that when a girl negotiates, it's negotiation and when a guy does it, he's being a "cheapskate" or a "troll"?

Frankly, that just stinks to high heaven for me. This is a business and in a business negotiation is a fact of life. Now, if a girl chooses not to negotiate on her rates, that's fine. Just like I have no issue with a polite opening to negotiation from a guy.

But turning this into some sort of moral or insult issue by either gender is simply ridiculous.

Maybe because it's a very personal/intimate business? In auto business, a car won't get offended if you try to buy it at a lower price cause a car is a dead material with no soul or feelings.
But women and men are human being with a soul and feeling and emotions....so that's why it's more personal. I hope that helps you to understand. :-) So comparing this to other business is like comparing apples to oranges. Some things can apply; some things cannot.

[Prolongus]

Originally Posted by Rehke

Why is is that when a girl negotiates, it's negotiation and when a guy does it, he's being a "cheapskate" or a "troll"?

Had a Provider negotiate with me once. She was $300/hr and wanted me to pay $200/hr. I felt cheap, used and poor...didn't see her.

For professionals that charge by the hour: lawyers, doctors, plumbers, electricians, etc...does anyone here try to negotiate with THEM? No? Why do it with Providers?

[samantha thom]

Thank you Prolongus.
I actually tried to negotiate with plumbers and electricians....IT DIDN'T WORK!!! They looked at me like I was a cheapskate...which I am!! LOL

[samantha thom]

[QUOTE=Prolongus;1052560912]Had a Provider negotiate with me once. She was $300/hr and wanted me to pay $200/hr. I felt cheap, used and poor...didn't see her.

QUOTE]

LOLOLOLOL!!!! OMG.....thanks for the laugh!!!!

[Hercules]

Originally Posted by samantha thom

I actually tried to negotiate with plumbers and electricians....IT DIDN'T WORK!!!

Were they eunuchs?

[Chevalier]

Originally Posted by Prolongus

For professionals that charge by the hour: lawyers, doctors, plumbers, electricians, etc...does anyone here try to negotiate with THEM?

Some of my clients have tried to negotiate with me. In some cases, successfully -- if business was slow enough, I might even offer a special rate without them asking. Or offer a fee contingent on the results.

I also think my services are significantly more personal than a car. I could be insulted by the implication that my skills are less valuable than I consider them to be. But I try not to let it bother me. That would be counter-productive.

But by the same token, I avoided even hinting at something like that to the ladies here. I might have responded, if a lady asked why I didn't come see her, by telling her that my budget didn't permit it. But that never happened, in part because I never initiated anything that sounded like I was inviting such an inquiry. OK, once or twice a lady asked why I'd never seen her, but it had nothing to do with rates.

Personally, I don't think something like the overture described in the original post should offend. But I realize it does, so I avoid it.

[TinMan]

Originally Posted by Prolongus

For professionals that charge by the hour: lawyers, doctors, plumbers, electricians, etc...does anyone here try to negotiate with THEM? No? Why do it with Providers?

I've negotiated rates with both lawyers and doctors. It's more common than you think.

[BBW Katrina]

It is passive/aggressive and very unattractive.

[Rehke]

Originally Posted by samantha thom

Maybe because it's a very personal/intimate business? In auto business, a car won't get offended if you try to buy it at a lower price cause a car is a dead material with no soul or feelings.
But women and men are human being with a soul and feeling and emotions....so that's why it's more personal. I hope that helps you to understand. :-) So comparing this to other business is like comparing apples to oranges. Some things can apply; some things cannot.

The type of business doesn't really matter.

What does matter is that in many cases women are perfectly willing to use emotionally-based manipulation to get what they want at the expense of men and villify men for something as innocuous as business negotiation.

No too mention some of the things I've heard come out of female mouths demonstrates that women can be just as cut-throat and all about the money as anyone else.

If anything, it is the injection of personal feeling which tend to lead to disasters, often with some serious financial ramifications, occurring to the men who are sucked into "helping" some poor girl in distress. A distress usually caused by her own decisions.

Demonizing men for a reasonable attempt at negotiation tells me a lot about your feelings and emotions...

[samantha thom]

Originally Posted by Rehke

The type of business doesn't really matter.

What does matter is that in many cases women are perfectly willing to use emotionally-based manipulation to get what they want at the expense of men and villify men for something as innocuous as business negotiation.

No too mention some of the things I've heard come out of female mouths demonstrates that women can be just as cut-throat and all about the money as anyone else.

If anything, it is the injection of personal feeling which tend to lead to disasters, often with some serious financial ramifications, occurring to the men who are sucked into "helping" some poor girl in distress. A distress usually caused by her own decisions.

Demonizing men for a reasonable attempt at negotiation tells me a lot about your feelings and emotions...

Good post. Oh yes...I agree there are a lot of manipulative people out there...men or women...including the men who e-mailed me with such msg I mentioned in the original post. And I just thanked them for the compliment. I never called him a demon. I thought in my head that he's cheap though...didn't say it to him.

I also agree with what you said about helping people who are in distress. I have tried to help several people throughout my life by loaning them money (friends and co-workers) and didn't hear back from them. And the reason why they got in trouble to begin with....was of course, their own actions and life choices.

[roaringfork]

Samantha, have you considered the possibility that some poor bastard out there just might have wanted to believe that he had caused a tiny ripple in a beautiful woman's stream of consciousness? (Heck, that's exactly the reason I'm writing this....)

[Guest070818-1]

Originally Posted by Rehke

The type of business doesn't really matter.

What does matter is that in many cases women are perfectly willing to use emotionally-based manipulation to get what they want at the expense of men and villify men for something as innocuous as business negotiation.

No too mention some of the things I've heard come out of female mouths demonstrates that women can be just as cut-throat and all about the money as anyone else.

If anything, it is the injection of personal feeling which tend to lead to disasters, often with some serious financial ramifications, occurring to the men who are sucked into "helping" some poor girl in distress. A distress usually caused by her own decisions.

Demonizing men for a reasonable attempt at negotiation tells me a lot about your feelings and emotions...

Forget feelings and emotions. I was 18 two years ago. I'm glad that episode ended.

Now, it's really not about emotions. It's about the smiling face on the dollar bill. I hate to say it, but I refuse to bitch/whine/complain about a man not wanting to provide for me or seek my best interest, WHATEVER my best interest is.

For the guys who have seen me, and who have helped me and/or tipped me, my communication to them is open 24/7.

Now, there are a handful of guys here on eccie that seem to be caught up in rut. They either want a hooker girlfriend, sugarbaby, or someone's shoulder to cry on. Now, I'm pretty sure everyone here is capable of human communication and understanding, but this is BUSINESS and I'm really just concerned about putting a dick in the pussy.

Of course, I love to utilize the "block" button on here. I have no time for guys to want to barter, haggle, or assume that My time/ears are not worth a $1. There is nothing demonic about the block button. But there is something spiteful about calling a guy a "cheap time waster". I'd just rather say that I was not the hoe he was looking for.

[TexasDave555]

Originally Posted by Rehke

Why is is that when a girl negotiates, it's negotiation and when a guy does it, he's being a "cheapskate" or a "troll"?

Frankly, that just stinks to high heaven for me. This is a business and in a business negotiation is a fact of life. Now, if a girl chooses not to negotiate on her rates, that's fine. Just like I have no issue with a polite opening to negotiation from a guy.

But turning this into some sort of moral or insult issue by either gender is simply ridiculous.

I dont see it as a moral issue, I see it as a courtesy thing. Gals post discounts all the time or offer them to regulars etc with no issue. However its all about the approach when initiated by the customer. The way this was done was pretty tame to some I have seen/heard about.

If a guy has a budget, post an ISO and see who responds. If he has someone who he has wanted to see, an honest "Hey.. I only have x amount to work with, can you let me know when you run a special or let me know what you could do to work with I can afford at this time?"

The problem is, just like providers asking for car money, bail money, sick dog money etc.... history has proven that most of it is BS and becomes habitual. If he sent that to her, chances are hes tried it before with some success.

Its all in the approach and the vibe..... you'll get much farther with a honest straight forward approach then a fishing expedition, more so if you have previous working relationship with said provider.

[Rehke]

I will say that between this post and your post about being a cheapskate yourself when you tried to negotiate with others does put things in a different light in regards to you and I'm glad to see that you are not going down that path.

I'm not so sure that I'm willing, however, to accept the negative connotation that goes with being "cheap." Between the current state of the economy, rising prices and my own increasing conservatism as I get older, I'm much more inclined to find the best value possible for my expenditures. And I don't fault anyone for doing the same.

I still see nothing wrong with a polite, respectful approach to a provider if one wants to try to negotiate a better rate. Now, it might be also appropriate to accept a reduction in time or services. Maybe I've got some mental block about paying X hourly rate, but I'll pay Y for 45 minutes. As long as everyone has a satisfactory outcome, then I'm good with it.

And who knows, maybe if I did find that I enjoyed that provider's company enough that I'll request an upgrade.

Originally Posted by samantha thom

Good post. Oh yes...I agree there are a lot of manipulative people out there...men or women...including the men who e-mailed me with such msg I mentioned in the original post. And I just thanked them for the compliment. I never called him a demon. I thought in my head that he's cheap though...didn't say it to him.

I also agree with what you said about helping people who are in distress. I have tried to help several people throughout my life by loaning them money (friends and co-workers) and didn't hear back from them. And the reason why they got in trouble to begin with....was of course, their own actions and life choices.