Where's The Love?

[GiveMeLibertyOrGiveMeHead]

Many moons ago, when I first got into this hobby, I made a lot of stupid mistakes. I joined the first board in an effort to learn from the veterans and keep myself out of trouble. For me the main reason for these boards is to keep us out of trouble and learn from each other. This is a place for our protection, whether you are a hobbyist or provider, this should be a place where we go to to keep ourselves safe.

That being said, there are a lot of posts on here where being sarcastic and taking pot shots at each other are not only called for, but asked for in my opinion. My brother Grizzly's situation is not one of those. If you have ever made a mistake in this hobby you should understand and offer words of help and not take it as an opportunity to put him down. He is not only dealing with some inappropriate feelings for a provider, but he is dealing with a pimp and party favors. He is not just facing arrest, he could end up dead. We should be trying to help a brother out instead of putting him down.

That's just my opinion though and I am sure I will get some shit for this, (bring it on) but I had to say it.

[LNK]

Not giving you shit, but come on. The guy knows what he's doing, and knows what he's doing wrong. He said so!

Sometimes being helpful and supportive is less helpful than saying, "You dumbass. Get a clue, and do what you said you were going to do."

Being blunt != being rude.

As I posted, he needs to go back and read all his posts for the last several weeks. Then think hard about what's been going on, and where he wants to go from here.

The pure potshots are not helpful in themselves, but may spur him to see things in a different light.

[JayceeRivers]

I have noted a higher level of aggression on the boards as of late. However it is not a new phenomenon. (I suddenly have the urge to sing doo doo dadoodoo) The aggression between members is what keeps many gentlemen lurkers and drives many of the providers from posting themselves.

I admit I found it disappointing to see a mod partake in a less than objective opinion so openly. However I try to remember everyone has a right to their own opinion. The best we can do is wince slightly and take it at face value. Remember the only opinions that are harmful to you are ones that you value. If you don't value the person or their opinion, it would be no different than a random stranger stating "I don't like you" from off the street.

[JRLawrence]

Originally Posted by JayceeRivers

I have noted a higher level of aggression on the boards as of late. However it is not a new phenomenon. (I suddenly have the urge to sing doo doo dadoodoo) The aggression between members is what keeps many gentlemen lurkers and drives many of the providers from posting themselves.

I admit I found it disappointing to see a mod partake in a less than objective opinion so openly.

YOU GOT THAT RIGHT: THANK YOU!

However I try to remember everyone has a right to their own opinion. The best we can do is wince slightly and take it at face value.

MODERN DAY EXCUSE FOR IMPROPER BEHAVIOR. An uninformed opinion is worthless. It is not even a thought, it is an expression of emotion. Any expression of an opinion should be backed up by facts. For example, when a reporter gets the opinion from the guy on the street about something the person has never heard and no knowledge of: the so called opinion is a statement that is made from ignorance. A person has the right in the US of saying anything they want, at anytime they want. However, when the ignorant and stupid open their mouths no one is obligated to remain silent and tolerate the stupidity.

Remember the only opinions that are harmful to you are ones that you value. If you don't value the person or their opinion, it would be no different than a random stranger stating "I don't like you" from off the street.

Now we come to the heart of the matter. I fully agree. When we express an opinion to those that matter, we should be as nice as possible and lessen any criticism because it can hurt. To those that we meet here, or in society, there is the assumption by the stupid that we have to be nice to them when they express an empty head idea that has no relevance to reality. My personal reaction to this is: the comment is totally wrong. Some people just talk to hear themselves talk. No one is obligated to go along with stupid comments. I just remember reading A. Hitler's book in high school. The guy was just wrong in many of his comments, but thousands of people accepted his opinions as true just because he said it. Now, that is stupid.

JR

[GiveMeLibertyOrGiveMeHead]

Originally Posted by JRLawrence

MODERN DAY EXCUSE FOR IMPROPER BEHAVIOR. An uninformed opinion is worthless. It is not even a thought, it is an expression of emotion. Any expression of an opinion should be backed up by facts.

Two of the definitions of the word "opinion" are as follows:

1. a view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.

2. belief stronger than impression and less strong than positive knowledge

Unless it is an "expert opinion" then there are really no facts to back it up...it's just your thoughts on something.

Originally Posted by JRLawrence

For example, when a reporter gets the opinion from the guy on the street about something the person has never heard and no knowledge of: the so called opinion is a statement that is made from ignorance. A person has the right in the US of saying anything they want, at anytime they want. However, when the ignorant and stupid open their mouths no one is obligated to remain silent and tolerate the stupidity.

There is a big difference between ignorance and stupidity. We are all ignorant about something. The key is to not ask people questions about topics they know nothing about. It's hard to have an opinion when you are ignorant on the topic at hand.

Originally Posted by JRLawrence

Now we come to the heart of the matter. I fully agree. When we express an opinion to those that matter, we should be as nice as possible and lessen any criticism because it can hurt. To those that we meet here, or in society, there is the assumption by the stupid that we have to be nice to them when they express an empty head idea that has no relevance to reality. My personal reaction to this is: the comment is totally wrong. Some people just talk to hear themselves talk. No one is obligated to go along with stupid comments. I just remember reading A. Hitler's book in high school. The guy was just wrong in many of his comments, but thousands of people accepted his opinions as true just because he said it. Now, that is stupid.

Not sure where you are going there, (and on a few of your replies to other posts) and how Hitler fits in, but since you brought it up, I wonder what would have happened if Hitler had not attacked Russia and actually won the war. He was not a part of his own "Master Race" so would they have had to kill him?

[GiveMeLibertyOrGiveMeHead]

Originally Posted by LNK

Not giving you shit, but come on. The guy knows what he's doing, and knows what he's doing wrong. He said so!

Sometimes being helpful and supportive is less helpful than saying, "You dumbass. Get a clue, and do what you said you were going to do."

Being blunt != being rude.

As I posted, he needs to go back and read all his posts for the last several weeks. Then think hard about what's been going on, and where he wants to go from here.

The pure potshots are not helpful in themselves, but may spur him to see things in a different light.

I think your post was helpful, (that's my opinion btw, I have no facts to back it up). I am talking about the one liner pot shots that are either an attempt to get you post count up or just an attempt to prove you are a heartless asshole.

I will fuck with people and push buttons just as much, (or maybe more) than the next guy, but kicking a guy when he is down is pretty fucked up.

[Guest013121]

I felt the same way about the mod expressing his less than objective opinion as well. Obviously, I'm the one who said my peace about it. But, I also understood what he meant in his reply about him expressing his opinion as a hobbyist.

I see things as they are. I think about how things feel in real life instead of what sounds good in writing. We can all relate to Grizz situation. Different scenarios, but we all know what's right or wrong and we all know others are giving us sound advice but we still take chances. Why?? Because its in our nature. Because we long to see the good in people. Because we like to try to prove people wrong. There are a million reasons why we still go back to what's bad or wrong. And people who paint others situations with the most negative brush sometimes forget what it would be like to be in their exact shoes.

I have given Grizz plenty of advice, as have others, but after we give advice to someone, we can only hope they take it. Its shitty to be an asshole and get mad and say "see, you shoulda listened to my advice or see, i told you so" if they fuck up again. Kiara played on him wearing his heart on his sleeve and openly admitting it on this board. That makes her the heartless one. Any of us can play the game to our advantage in this hobby but most of us won't intentionally prey on a persons feelings or helping hand where it ends up hurting them. That makes her pretty scandalous.

So, lets give him a break and if we must look at someone so negatively, lets look at Kiara. Grizz did nothing but try to help that girl and she took him for a ride. But she is stealing from clients, cashing and dashing, raw fucking different guys, partaking in obscene amounts of party favors, and having her pimp and others running in and out of her hotel rooms. Who is the bad person now??

So, I appreciate you posting this thread GiveMeLiberty, because you're right...what is the point of partaking in this hobby if we can't lend a helping hand or a few words of wisdom to others. I realize I'm not the best at handing out pointers either but I would like to think that in the end we all hope the best works out for one another.

[stimulatethemind]

I agree that this board has become a bit more mean spirited than it needs to be. I enjoy a good debate on occasion, and it's ok to have differences of opinion. It just doesn't need to deteriorate into name calling and personal attacks.

My perception of Grizz is that he's, for the most part, a pretty decent person who seems to have a big heart. I believe, however, that he may be quite naïve and too trusting for his own good. I would suggest that he needs to learn that trust is not given, it is earned. That being said, it's a shame that he had to experience what he did, and I wish him well in his future endeavors. I agree with Give Me Liberty, let's not kick the guy when he's down.

[MsElena]

Here's my question to the OP......

Why would you bring this topic up again?

Some threads just need to die and go away to be forgotten until some idgit brings it up down the road for no reason.

[JJ Fun Guy]

I couldn't agree more with Gemma,who thoroughly covered all of the bases regarding Grizzly's entire unfortunate drama with Kiara.I have recommended to Grizzly to stay away from her at all costs and take some time off from the hobby.He is a big boy and if he decides to do otherwise,that's his decision to live wityh the consequences.

Ms Elena,may I ask you one question?If this thread on Grizzly bothers you so much ,why are you reading it?

[MsElena]

It doesn't bother me at all because it doesn't involve me. But, there was no reason to bring it back up again.

I don't know what happened nor do I care to. I feel bad for the outcome of it though because it seems some guy was brought to his knees pretty much....sort a speak. Why bring it up again and have it in his face again? He wants it to go away from what I read in that thread.

That was my point in case you missed it.

[GiveMeLibertyOrGiveMeHead]

Originally Posted by MsElena

Here's my question to the OP......

Why would you bring this topic up again?

Some threads just need to die and go away to be forgotten until some idgit brings it up down the road for no reason.

I had three reasons for posting this actually.

1. An effort to take some of the heat off of him by opening myself up to any potshots, criticism, abuse etc...

2. To remind everyone that ultimately sites like this exist for us to help one another and keep ourselves safe. He did just that by bringing this topic to the board, so he is a brother in this hobby to me.

3. Just to point out that we have all made mistakes so lighten up a little

By the way, what exactly is an idgit?

[LNK]

You folks need to get over this idea that Mods are "Neutral", "Objective", or otherwise not entitled to an opinion.

In another life, I was a referee for a sport that I also played at a high level, but not pro. As a ref, I had to make calls on plays to the best of my ability, leaving aside the fact that the asshole making the play was about as smart as the dogshit I scraped off my shoe the other night. The fact that before/after I wore the shirt, he and I cordially despised each other, and took pains to let each other know exactly how we felt had nothing to do with it. He knew that I could and did leave aside our mutual dislike while making the call, but we still all but spit at each other at any other time.

Being a Mod is no different. Modda may be a total prick as a poster, but I don't hear any complaints about his moderation of the forums, in fact, I seem to remember some crying that they missed him when he was gone a while back!

Especially in a case like this, where the subject of the discussion keeps going back into the barn that is fucking on fire after he's come out and told us it's on fire!.

At some point, it becomes tiresome to watch someone make the same mistake, again, when he's been told in oh so many ways, and even said himself! that he's making a bad mistake. Eventually, being supportive and helpful becomes enabling.

I'm beginning to think he just likes the attention, and we're giving him all he can handle.

[Bassman67]

Originally Posted by GiveMeLibertyOrGiveMeHead

By the way, what exactly is an idgit?

I believe that is referring to the word "idiot", but I could be wrong...

[GiveMeLibertyOrGiveMeHead]

Originally Posted by Bassman67

I believe that is referring to the word "idiot", but I could be wrong...

I figured it was, but just never heard it, so I figured I'd ask.