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Whispers · 08-15-2010, 11:00 AM

I was ticketed a month ago for "Ignoring a Police Barricade".....

Traveling South on IH35 there was a disabled vehicle in the exit lane a good 150 yards from the actual exit for 183 North... just past Rundberg Lane...... There were two orange cones behind her vehicle and a cop car pulled over in front of her.....

There was plenty of room in front of the cop car and people were exiting after getting past the cop car even though they were crossing a solid white line....

Without really thinking much, with traffic crawling at about 20mph, I followed them and continued up the access Road.

1/4 of a mile up there were two squads involved with another accident on the side of the access road and a motorcycle cop walking down the middle of the access road waiving all of us over.

He litteraly lined about 12 of us up, collected licenses and wrote every one of us a ticket for "Ignoring a Police Barricade".

I pay my tickets, do defensive driving, deferred adjudication.... whatever I need to do when I know I've done something wrong.....

I was one week shy of completing a Deferment on a different ticket when this happened and now I need to see the judge about that one while I try to fight this ticket.

I was with someone meeting with her lawyer recently and asked her about it and she gave me some basic advice on how to handle it myself and I'm going to take the first swing at it myself and if unsuccessful will hire an attorney....

She said it sounded like the basic charge may be in error and I needed to look up the legal definition of what a Police Barricade is in the City/County/State? not sure on that....

This is a City of Austin Traffic Ticket.....

Can Anyone out there point me to the legal definition of a Police Barricade?

I REALLY felt this whole thing was a setup......

If there truly was a safety issue requiring the "barricade" and closing doesn't it make sense that APD would have the Motorcycle cop down where the other officer was safely directing traffic rather than walking up and down the middle of the street a 1/4 mile up writing tickets?

governmentguru · 08-15-2010, 11:14 AM

You crossed over after passing the police car? No more cones?

Mokoa · 08-15-2010, 11:28 AM

According to the Texas DPS...

Solid White Lines: This is used to channelize traffic and indicates that changing lanes is discouraged, although not specifically prohibited. You can cross it if you have to, but you should avoid it if possible. Even a thick single white line can be crossed if necessary; however, they are really discouraging you from crossing, so you might think twice about it. A single white line is also used simply to mark the right edge of the roadway.

Perhaps writing you all up is how they discourage crossing solid white lines. I would not put it passed them there and or anywhere else for that matter. The wording seems to leave quite a bit of room for interpretation.

I am not familiar with the rules regarding police barricades in Austin. Two pylon cones does not sound like a barricade to me. Now if it was one of those saw horse type things that are put across, then that is another matter.

Whispers · 08-15-2010, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by governmentguru

You crossed over after passing the police car? No more cones?

Correct.....

2 Cones.....

Then disabled vehicle on side of road....

Cop Car in front of disabled vehicle on side of road....

A good hundred yards of lane left after the front of the cop car....

Whispers · 08-15-2010, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mokoa

According to the Texas DPS...
Two pylon cones does not sound like a barricade to me. Now if it was one of those saw horse type things that are put across, then that is another matter.

That was the point the lawyer told me needed to be made and if the cones do not rise to the definition of what a "barricade" is the charge should be dismissed......

So I'm looking for where I can find that definition.....

GneissGuy · 08-15-2010, 01:21 PM

What's a "rode?"

I've read somewhere about getting tickets dismissed if the officer writing the ticket was not the officer who observed the infraction. Did he see you go around the barricade? Could he observe the barricade at the time you allegedly drove around it? Yes, another officer can stop you, but the officer observing the infraction has to write the ticket.

I have a vague recollection that some anonymous person said that, but it's on the internet, so it must be true.

Whispers · 08-15-2010, 01:42 PM

Yeah he could probably see everyone doing what they are doing.... There is a slight hill there and you can see down to the exit from where they were....

txtraveler07 · 08-15-2010, 02:57 PM

Texas Transportation Code, Miscellaneous Provisions, Section 472.022 Obeying Warning Signs and Barricades:

Quote:

(e) In this section:
(1) "Barricade" means an obstruction:
(A) placed on or across a road, street, or
highway of this state by the department, a political subdivision of
this state, or a contractor or subcontractor constructing or
repairing the road, street, or highway under authorization of the
department or a political subdivision of this state; and
(B) placed to prevent the passage of motor
vehicles over the road, street, or highway during construction,
repair, or dangerous conditions.
(2) "Construction or maintenance work zone" means a
portion of a highway or street:
(A) where highway construction or maintenance is
being undertaken, other than mobile operations as defined by the
Texas Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices; and
(B) that is marked by signs:
(i) indicating that it is a construction or
maintenance work zone;
(ii) indicating where the zone begins and
ends; and
(iii) stating: "Fines double when workers
present."
(3) "Warning sign" means a signal, marking, or device
placed on a barricade or on a road, street, or highway during
construction, repair, or dangerous conditions by the department, a
political subdivision of this state, or a contractor or
subcontractor to warn or regulate motor vehicular traffic. The
term includes a flagger deployed on a road, street, or highway by
the department, a political subdivision of this state, or a
contractor or subcontractor to direct traffic around or on the
road, street, or highway during construction, repair, or dangerous
conditions.

Sections 6I.01 and 6I.04 of the following .pdf may be useful. It sounds like the officer failed to establish a traffic diversion or manually control the flow of traffic as described in those sections.

ftp://ftp.dot.state.tx.us/pub/txdot-info/library/pubs/gov/devices/2006_mutcd_binder.pdf

governmentguru · 08-15-2010, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whispers

Correct.....

2 Cones.....

Then disabled vehicle on side of road....

Cop Car in front of disabled vehicle on side of road....

A good hundred yards of lane left after the front of the cop car....

No foul. Wrong ticket, if any should be issued. White lines are advisory, but a directional sign "Do not cross double white lines" is not.

But again it's your word against theirs, if they even show. Set it for trial.

governmentguru · 08-15-2010, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whispers

That was the point the lawyer told me needed to be made and if the cones do not rise to the definition of what a "barricade" is the charge should be dismissed......

So I'm looking for where I can find that definition.....

It wouldn't matter if it is or it isn't; you didn't cross it...

Guest010512-2 · 08-15-2010, 04:59 PM

Get a lawyer. It'll be gone. All the old things about "if the cop doesn't show up the ticket is dismissed" or "if they misspell your name the ticket is dismissed" don't work anymore.

As far as fucking up your deferment, you just can't get a CONVICTION during your deferment. You weren't convicted; you were ticketed. Even if you were ticketed the day after your deferment went into effect, a good lawyer could keep getting the date pushed back until after your original deferment and get you a new one.

I know a few big time lawyers and they all said the same thing: if you murder somebody, I'll get you off. For this, you need a really good traffic ticket lawyer that knows those courts.

AustinBusinessTraveler · 08-15-2010, 06:03 PM

If you'd had a camera and taken a few pics of the barricade, or gotten the number of anyone else pulled over, you'd be a lot more solid.

Here's the simple question. Was the police vehicle, which was parked in front of her car, positioned in such a way as to block access to the exit ramp without crossing the lines?

If it was, you really need a lawyer or to just pay the ticket... you've already lost otherwise.

If it was not, you can win this in a slam dunk without counsel.

txtraveler07 · 08-15-2010, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by down41

As far as fucking up your deferment, you just can't get a CONVICTION during your deferment. You weren't convicted; you were ticketed. Even if you were ticketed the day after your deferment went into effect, a good lawyer could keep getting the date pushed back until after your original deferment and get you a new one.

That may not be correct. On the three deferments I've had, the wording stated that receiving a citation was a violation of deferment--It said nothing about conviction. In fact, the second ticket which I received deferment for was issued with two weeks left on the first deferment and a court date months after the deferment would end. It didn't matter, receiving a citation violated the conditions of the first deferment. However, none of those were in Austin/Travis County where the wording could be different.

Guest010512-2 · 08-15-2010, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by txtraveler07

That may not be correct.

I'm not a lawyer, don't even play one on TV. That's what my lawyer told me in my case. Maybe she got the deferred adjudication worded differently. I was surprised and impressed with all the maneuvering she was capable of. Everybody hates lawyers until they need one. Just get a good one.

Sternomancer · 08-15-2010, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by down41

Get a lawyer. It'll be gone. All the old things about "if the cop doesn't show up the ticket is dismissed" or "if they misspell your name the ticket is dismissed" don't work anymore.

If the officer doesn't show up the ticket will be dismissed since the State has no witness. I'd gotten out of several tickets this way. However, the City of Austin has implemented a policy that if the officer doesn't show for the court date they get docked pay or something, so essentially officers are showing up for cases now, I'd wager.

Of course, that doesn't mean you can't go all movie super plot and find all about the officer and disable his mode of travel for getting to the courthouse in time and get it dismissed.