No Wonder Iran Hates Us

[I B Hankering]

Originally Posted by vkmaster

Very Interesting video....I'll need to check out some of the books mentioned

During our Iraq "invasion"....there was so much press of how dare the Iranians support and teach Iraqis methods in attacking our US troops.

Of course, both my heart and voice, felt sadden and wrong that our Boys were suffering.

But in terms of big picture, I made the exact same arguement that was presented
in this video. How would we feel if Iran had thousands of troops in both Mexico and Canada making regime changes.

Would we have sat on sidelines....I think not.

Two more books I recommend are Robert Jervis’ Why Intelligence Fails: Lessons from the Iranian Revolution and the Iraq War (Cornell Studies in Security Affairs). Ithaca: Cornell University Press, 2010, and Mark Bowden's Guests of the Ayatollah: The First Battle in America's War with Militant Islam. New York: Atlantic Monthly Press, 2006. Jervis is an analyst who was commissioned to write reports for the CIA. One of those reports pertained to the 1979 coup and how the Carter administration bungled relations with Iran in 1979 (i.e., publicly chastising the Shah for anti-democratic repression while covertly expecting and encouraging him to repress the demonstrations).

I bought and started reading Bowden's book in 2006 after listening to a review on NPR. Within the first fifty pages, Bowden mentioned U.S. complicity in the overthrow of Iranian Premier Mossadeq in 1953. I had not heard that story before, so I researched and found two books on the subject: Kinzer’s and Wilber’s. At the time, Wilber’s book was available only from a British vendor. Fortunately, I chose to read Kinzer’s book first. His book is more traditional and journalistic; thus, it is easier to follow because of the way it was written. Wilber’s book is literally a redacted CIA report written soon after the event in 1954. The report was published in 1969 with names and some other pertinent details omitted to protect the identities of people still living in Iran. These omissions, of course, make for incomplete sentences in the text. Wilber’s book conveys an immediate sense of urgency and a fear of the rising communist party, the Tudeh party, in Iran. Kinzer dismisses the U.S. concern about communism as mere nonsense. Wilber’s report was an internal report and not originally intended for public publication. So as I said, Wilber’s book tempers Kinzer’s insupportable and dismissive attitude of U.S.’ Cold War attitudes towards communism; especially in light of revelations made by Vasili Mitrokhin (with Christopher Andrew) in his books, The World Was Going Our Way: The KGB and the Battle for the Third World. New York: Perseus Book Group, 2005, and The Sword and the Shield: The Mitrokhin Archive and the Secret History of the KGB. New York: Perseus Book Group, 1999.

Kinzer wrote another book I would recommend. It’s called, Overthrow: America's Century of Regime Change from Hawaii to Iraq. N.Y.: Times Books, Henry Holt and Company, 2006. This book offers a great introduction and overview to American imperialism, but the reader should be conscious of Kinzer’s liberal bent.

[sensualsanaa]

Please excuse me, for a brief interruption

I must admit, many times when I come to the sandbox I do not know half ot he history of the events you guys talk about The other half of the time when I do know what;s going on, it's just some idiot blubbering on about nothing. I've learned so much from crawling through the sandbox and I appreciate all of you guys for your input and your suggested reading list.. Just my little sidebar.

Thanks

[I B Hankering]

Originally Posted by sensualsanaa

Please excuse me, for a brief interruption

I must admit, many times when I come to the sandbox I do not know half ot he history of the events you guys talk about The other half of the time when I do know what;s going on, it's just some idiot blubbering on about nothing. I've learned so much from crawling through the sandbox and I appreciate all of you guys for your input and your suggested reading list.. Just my little sidebar.

Thanks

Happy to oblige. I just discovered that three of the books I mentioned above are reviewed here: https://www.cia.gov/library/center-for-the-study-of-intelligence/csi-publications/csi-studies/studies/vol50no4/the-intelligence-officers-bookshelf.html

[Whirlaway]

Iran "hates" us because of our support for Israel to exist. And because we are one of the superpowers opposing their expansion plans within the middle east.

[I B Hankering]

Originally Posted by Whirlaway

Iran "hates" us because of our support for Israel to exist. And because we are one of the superpowers opposing their expansion plans within the middle east.

And because the U.S. markets seditious products like “Barbie Dolls.”
http://www.npr.org/2012/01/21/145564...a-western-plot

[Whirlaway]

Right IB. I forgot that one............

It is impossible for any of the Islamist states to advance beyond their petro-dollar wealth because their ideology doesn't believe in equal rights and the modernity that is required.

[Guest050715-1]

Originally Posted by Whirlaway

Right IB. I forgot that one............

It is impossible for any of the Islamist states to advance beyond their petro-dollar wealth because their ideology doesn't believe in equal rights and the modernity that is required.

Some don't here either.

[Guest102513-1]

Originally Posted by Whirlaway

Current events in Iran have very little to do with pror regimes in Iran and everything to do with Iran's hatred for Israel.

Accept Israel as a legitimate neighbor you don't profess to destroy, and the world economies wont give a damn what your internal politics are.

And the 1776 revolution in the colonies, have nothing to do with our current thinking, lol

Of course our position on Israel has a major factor on how we are viewed. But blessed are those whose views on world politics are so simplistic. Shall we run out and burn the Iranian flag....yea that will get them thinking

THANKS I B H for additional ideas for readings ideas

[CuteOldGuy]

They were very happy killing each other until the US decided to meddle in their affairs, and then on top of that, we take land away from a bunch of Muslims, and give it to a group whose sole claim to the land was that it was theirs 3000 years ago, and they had horrible things happen to them in WWII. I am not anti-Jew or anti-Israel, but was that the smartest choice? Why not give them a chunk of Germany, they are the ones who tortured and killed them.

If I lived in Palestine prior to 1947, I'd be pissed, too. But I would have gotten over it. Nothing can be done about it now, so we have to defend their right to exist, but what brainiac came up with this idea? The only way to solve it is for Israel to be destroyed. That ain't gonna happen, so we will have perpetual war in that area.

Hmmm . . . perpetual war. Idle defense contractors. Ok, I get it now. Never mind.

[Guest102513-1]

Amen to COG....many folks don't realize that Israel was created in 1947 by basically the US and the British.

And good for him to speak that side....we are so program in this country, that when anyone even questions our policy with Israel

[Whirlaway]

COG also recognizes Israel's right to exist, do you? Iran doesn't.

[waverunner234]

Originally Posted by vkmaster

Amen to COG....many folks don't realize that Israel was created in 1947 by basically the US and the British.

And good for him to speak that side....we are so program in this country, that when anyone even questions our policy with Israel

They should have put Israel in Montana, there's room enough. Or if they wanted desert, in Texas.

[Iaintliein]

If there was justice in the world, Israel would be situated in the Ruhr valley.

But, there isn't justice in the world, Israel is where it is, and they've chosen to be our Allie, just as the current regime in Iran has chosen to be our enemy. So be it, let them each be treated in accordance with their decisions.

[CuteOldGuy]

Originally Posted by Whirlaway

COG also recognizes Israel's right to exist, do you? Iran doesn't.

Israel is there. Did they have a right to that land? No. Do they have it now? Yes. Should everyone get over it? Yes.

No one is going to rescind the state of Israel at this point. The Palestinians and others need to understand that. As long as they perpetuate that hate, children on both sides will continue to be killed. That is intolerable.

I wish I knew what the answer is for the Middle East. I don't. A small group of people are gaining money and power by fomenting hatred of the Jews. Hate is not a natural activity for Muslims, but the teachings have been distorted by a few for money and power.

It will take generations to reverse the hate on both sides. There is no good answer.

[I B Hankering]

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

Israel is there. Did they have a right to that land? No. Do they have it now? Yes. Should everyone get over it? Yes.

No one is going to rescind the state of Israel at this point. The Palestinians and others need to understand that. As long as they perpetuate that hate, children on both sides will continue to be killed. That is intolerable.

I wish I knew what the answer is for the Middle East. I don't. A small group of people are gaining money and power by fomenting hatred of the Jews. Hate is not a natural activity for Muslims, but the teachings have been distorted by a few for money and power.

It will take generations to reverse the hate on both sides. There is no good answer.

Give it all back the Italians. It was theirs to rule for several hundred years; let them take it back.