How to get and give a reference - yes I KNOW this has been discussed

[Guest032312]

Chuck who started TOB theoterboard, was one of my 1st hobby buddies. Use to live close to k.C., then transferred to close to Denver. I had KCHF at the time and told him he needed to do something for Denver. He, however found help, and as Fireserp knows, it's not something that one can do and keep sanity in your life. Fun, sometimes, but too damn hard and too much drama at times.
Every city has it's culture. K.C. has never been the mecca of the hobby. Both client and provider I will say are to blame. Need not go into detail, but true, if one has no backchannel connections, and a good network outside the norm, it's next to impossible to get a date who is worthy. One can read between the lines on that one.

[emplover]

Originally Posted by BigDeal

dondo do you have a 411...or date check....If not i dont get why guys dont just invest the $80-$100 a yr...to do this....
To me ladies if a guy wont spend the money for this...then typically they will be on the cheap with everything else

You can either afford to do this or you cant

I have a 411 and never have any problems getting verified and a date....i just dont get it

Howz that hard!!
The girls have to protect themselves!

I have P411, but it doesn't help if the provider you're attempting to make an appointment with isn't a member. The only reason I joined is so I could stop providing references to be checked... Maybe I'm too sensitive and it's not a problem for you ladies, but I absolutely hate asking someone I have seen previously to provide a reference to someone else I would like to book an appointment with.

[Citori]

I've been in this sport for a few years, however I travel coast to coast and never really concerned myself with requesting references from the ladies. Salt Lake City was my first attempt, and that is not an easy place to find someone.

I've left positive reviews on various local boards in the past. I've even left them on TER but they were "Rejected" because it was a well known provider that didn't need additional reviews.

KC and Chicago w/RS2K are my least favorite places to hobby. Most of the time I don't even bother. I have a trip next week, and I'll likely leave my wallet in my pants because it is too much of a pain to set something up here.

I realize that this is the "Norm" for K.C., but its not the norm in the rest of the country. So when a Lady doesn't like my references, my response is 'Ok'. I'll be in another metro area the following week and I can contribute to their economy, maybe twice.

I have a throw away phone, I use cash, occasionally I TOFTT, but normally I'm picky. I don't really want to give people enough info to be used against me.

[Bristal]

Originally Posted by lowrad

I've been in this sport for a few years, however I travel coast to coast and never really concerned myself with requesting references from the ladies. Salt Lake City was my first attempt, and that is not an easy place to find someone.

I've left positive reviews on various local boards in the past. I've even left them on TER but they were "Rejected" because it was a well known provider that didn't need additional reviews.

KC and Chicago w/RS2K are my least favorite places to hobby. Most of the time I don't even bother. I have a trip next week, and I'll likely leave my wallet in my pants because it is too much of a pain to set something up here.

I realize that this is the "Norm" for K.C., but its not the norm in the rest of the country. So when a Lady doesn't like my references, my response is 'Ok'. I'll be in another metro area the following week and I can contribute to their economy, maybe twice.

I have a throw away phone, I use cash, occasionally I TOFTT, but normally I'm picky. I don't really want to give people enough info to be used against me.

Your loss.

[ElumEno]

Originally Posted by Bristol

Your loss.

OUR GAIN!!!

[ezgoindude]

Originally Posted by lowrad

I've been in this sport for a few years, however I travel coast to coast and never really concerned myself with requesting references from the ladies. Salt Lake City was my first attempt, and that is not an easy place to find someone.

I've left positive reviews on various local boards in the past. I've even left them on TER but they were "Rejected" because it was a well known provider that didn't need additional reviews.

KC and Chicago w/RS2K are my least favorite places to hobby. Most of the time I don't even bother. I have a trip next week, and I'll likely leave my wallet in my pants because it is too much of a pain to set something up here.

I realize that this is the "Norm" for K.C., but its not the norm in the rest of the country. So when a Lady doesn't like my references, my response is 'Ok'. I'll be in another metro area the following week and I can contribute to their economy, maybe twice.

I have a throw away phone, I use cash, occasionally I TOFTT, but normally I'm picky. I don't really want to give people enough info to be used against me.

And this is exactly the effect that LE, prosecutors, legislators and social conservatives hope to foster. Enact draconian laws dictating proper social behavior. Run a few stings, and make some examples by alerting the media. Culminating in a health dose of paranoia on the part of providers and clients a like. Make providers paranoid about every client that calls, and make it not worth the perceived risk for clients to call a provider.

[MsElena]

Some of you fail to realize that its just not about LE. There are guys out there who want to hurt us, rob us and yes, even kill us.

I am paranoid about every potential client who contacts me because I don't know who they are and yes, they could be LE.

Should I bypass my screening for all guys who contact me? I would have a higher risk of getting popped and then my phone and laptop gets into the hands of LE.

Screening is for OUR protection and yes, even YOUR protection too.

For every guy who whines about my screening, there's 10 guys who appreciate the fact the I take the time to screen them, use their references and keep both of us safe.

[Citori]

Originally Posted by ezgoindude

And this is exactly the effect that LE, prosecutors, legislators and social conservatives hope to foster. Enact draconian laws dictating proper social behavior. Run a few stings, and make some examples by alerting the media. Culminating in a health dose of paranoia on the part of providers and clients a like. Make providers paranoid about every client that calls, and make it not worth the perceived risk for clients to call a provider.

You nailed it. So much easier in Canada with none of the above mentioned concerns.


Bristol, I know messages on forums are easy to misinterpret, I think it is a loss for me and the providers. I respect the "Norm" in KC and choose to not conform to it. I think the KC providers can do as they wish. I hope my message was received in the way i intended.

[MsElena]

Originally Posted by lowrad

You nailed it. So much easier in Canada with none of the above mentioned concerns.


Bristol, I know messages on forums are easy to misinterpret, I think it is a loss for me and the providers. I respect the "Norm" in KC and choose to not conform to it. I think the KC providers can do as they wish. I hope my message was received in the way i intended.

Of course its easier in Canada, its freaking LEGAL there. You failed to mention that in your post. BIG BIG difference. Comparing KC or any other city in the US to Canada is comparing apples to watermelons.

If guys don't like the way things work in KC, Chicago, NY, LA, Dallas....they can choose to go elsewhere. If you don't like the way ladies do their business, go see another lady who doesn't care who she sees.

Its a free world, but I will tell you this much.......I've worked in other major cities and ladies screen/ask for references EVERYWHERE, just not in KC.

There's a thread in the national forum that is called "fair is fair," it touches upon the screening process and one man's quest to NOT give his info. You'll find that ladies from all over the US disagree with him and his tactics.

Do as you wish, but don't make us ladies try to feel guilty for doing what we do to keep us safe.

[ezgoindude]

Originally Posted by MsElena

Some of you fail to realize that its just not about LE. There are guys out there who want to hurt us, rob us and yes, even kill us.

I am paranoid about every potential client who contacts me because I don't know who they are and yes, they could be LE.

Should I bypass my screening for all guys who contact me? I would have a higher risk of getting popped and then my phone and laptop gets into the hands of LE.

Screening is for OUR protection and yes, even YOUR protection too.

For every guy who whines about my screening, there's 10 guys who appreciate the fact the I take the time to screen them, use their references and keep both of us safe.

You're absolutely right, Elena. Didn't mean to whine or imply that you don't have reason to be paranoid. You do and as clients we do as well. The environment I described is real and are not the least of reasons to be aware. Personal safety is a concern for all of us. As men we tend to forget that, but something that a woman never does.

Still, don't be mislead by the hype. LE is not all powerful. They have limited resources and despite the zealous individuals that control the purse strings are mostly not interested in stamping out the activity entirely. Just looking good, staying employed, keeping the public happy and yes, safe while feeling a sense of moral superiority over those they target.

Regarding personal safety most people are not violent criminals and are not interested in hurting you. The few however give good reason to be careful. Which is the point. Do your homework. Research, screen, get to know the scene that you hobby in, and enjoy being a rebel. If, and it's a big if, you know what you are doing the risks are low albeit nonzero.

[Johnny4455]

my view is that providers and hobbyist have different ways of protecting ourselves from many risks associated with this. we all need to respect each others methods. if i don't want to comply with a providers screening, for my own reasons, I don't, but I completely respect any providers screening. The providers need to respect my choices to.

[ezgoindude]

Originally Posted by johnny4455

my view is that providers and hobbyist have different ways of protecting ourselves from many risks associated with this. we all need to respect each others methods. if i don't want to comply with a providers screening, for my own reasons, I don't, but I completely respect any providers screening. The providers need to respect my choices to.

Right on brother.

[Citori]

Sounds like we are in violent agreement here.
There are risk to both sides. Draconian laws in the US suck. People screen in all cities. I've never needed to been screened, but times may be changing.

Bristol, MsElana, and others have me thinking about P411, I've reviewed the sign up twice since I posted to this thread. Looks like it would be much less painful to my concerns if I have two P411 references or an invite. <- I'll work on that.

I've listened to other points of view and see their validity. I'm done posting to this thread, I think

PM me if you feel the need to tell me I'm wrong, encourage me, or warn me against P411.

[Bristal]

Originally Posted by johnny4455

my view is that providers and hobbyist have different ways of protecting ourselves from many risks associated with this. we all need to respect each others methods. if i don't want to comply with a providers screening, for my own reasons, I don't, but I completely respect any providers screening. The providers need to respect my choices to.

Couldn't have said it better! I try and have this outlook on many aspects of my life.

[Guest102513-1]

Well said johnny4455...because of a variety of personal and legal reasons we all have our comfort levels in taking the steps needed to meet each other, especially initially.

The providers have theirs, we as hobbists have ours (and in many cases the reasons overlap).

That's why I always get a chuckle over the discussion regarding "who controls the meetings, ie the ladies or the guys. I have always felt, when a successful meeting(s) do in fact occur..no one individual "wins". It is about respecting each others standards for establishing that initial meet. If either side is unable to conform to the others...no one wins or loses. It just was not meant to be...and both parties go their seperate ways.

But ultimately the good connections ( and the "good no connections") are based upon mutual respect and a desire to see each other, on terms that are agreable to each other.

I've been lucky enough to meet several providers on this site, without going thru the traditional screening process. However, I am aware of other providers who would not allow me to meet them, without going thru the traditional process...and I totally understand their point of view.

It only becomes complicated when people don't use common sense, and only see things from their side....and fail to understand things from the other's point of view