Have you signed the petition to decriminalize sex work?

[pbaddison]

Signed!

[pbaddison]

Originally Posted by anaximander

This ain't gonna happen.

Yes, it certainly won't happen if no one tries.

<sarcasm>Giving up without a fight is definitely the way to go.</sarcasm>

Just because you can't win a battle doesn't mean it isn't worth fighting.

[anaximander]

According to the art of war those
are exactly the battles to avoid because
you squander your efforts and demoralize
the remaining recruits.

There is no real world benefit to
legalizing or decriminalizing.
The benefit is to the govt
or they wouldn't have it on
sheik hussein's web site.

As for tax evasion, sister they can get
anybody on tax inaccuracies now.
The only question now is are you worth
their time and trouble?
Regarding Capone I have studied his
case for over 10 ys now. There is much
to suggest that he was not the criminal
Kingpin the GOVT said he was.
Capone was in a contest with FDR
to influence the people regarding
big govt power. It's very complicated,
the evidence was tenuous at best.

The worst words in the english language:
we're from the govt
and we're here to help

[SneakyCancer]

looks like the message has not been communicated enuff.....still need over 3k signatures in two weeks. i say let police fight crime not sex. if the sex involved turned into a crime fine....but just because one wants to see a piece to one does not make it wrong. we buy what we want no matter where we go....drugs, guns, etc....Pussy and a nut job is perfectly harmless.

[pbaddison]

Originally Posted by anaximander

According to the art of war those
are exactly the battles to avoid because
you squander your efforts and demoralize
the remaining recruits.

(1) Which "Art Of War"? Sun-Tzu, or Machiavelli? (2) Just because someone wrote it, doesn't make it true. (3) Not getting a bill passed {losing} doesn't mean the effort will not/did not yield beneficial results. Many a legal battle has been fought just to get the issue into wider attention. (4) What negative end would be caused by the attempt? Are these supposedly squandered efforts going to any other use right now? Will it become MORE illegal if the petition fails? I don't know, seems like very little risk in the attempt to me so even with a slim chance of reward, I see very little downside to making the effort.

Originally Posted by anaximander

There is no real world benefit to
legalizing or decriminalizing.

If nothing else, decriminalizing would at the very least free up police resources to pursue crimes that actually have a victim. Or reduce law enforcement, court, and prison costs by significantly reducing the number of criminal cases dealing with sex work. To say that there is NO real world benefit is hyperbole. It may not turn the world into sunshine, rainbow, and unicorns, but it would change the status quo and not in an unfavorable direction.

So then a question to you, anaximander - are you really in favor of keeping it criminal, or do you just enjoy being pessimistic and pushing malaise and hopelessness?

[anaximander]

Let Sin remain Sin.
Calling it something else is a self-delusion
of which I will not partake.

I reject your premise as well as your negative options
The girls here don't seem hopeless or whatnot.
The only thing missing from their life is
legal recognition? lol gimmie a break.

There are already legal prostitutes.
They are commonly referred to as lawyers.

Your 'benefits' are the hyperbole here.
No provider will fare any better with
CPS or family court. Civvie women
who are just sluts fare no better in
either. That's the reality.

Some girls have substantial investments
and holdings. Given the degree of financial
need this dem/soc wannabe govt is displaying.
I wouldn't be to sanguine regarding the govts
ability to keep its hands to itself and mind
it's own business.

This is a money grab whatever else you wish to call it.

Keep it illegal
Bad Boys need Bad Girls

[Maggie McNeill]

Frankly, Anaximander, I find your attitude toxic. Prostitution is either legalized or decriminalized everywhere in the free world except the U.S.; the only other countries in which it's criminal are theocracies, totalitarian states, former totalitarian states, third-world backwaters and a few small countries. Sex workers aren't "bad girls", they're women who do a vital and socially necessary job to support themselves, and though you may find the prospect of seeing a "bad girl" exciting to your own perverse sexuality we don't find the idea of being abducted, robbed and raped (either figuratively or literally) by the state or its actors very appealing.

I agree with you that the government is out of control and confiscatory, and that this petition won't make the difference of a teardrop in a furnace. Decriminalization, when it comes in this country, will come by judicial fiat as abortion rights and gay rights did. But in the meantime, your view that it's "better" for non-criminals to be treated as criminals is disgusting at best and at worst wholly malevolent.

[waydown]

Originally Posted by anaximander

...There is no real world benefit to
legalizing or decriminalizing...

You are right. Getting arrested for what 2 people do in a bed is no big deal. Who doesn't enjoy getting arrested? I don't know how I missed that point.

[anaximander]

Only the careless and stupid get busted.
That goes for all UTR activity.
Keep the streets clear.

Oh dearie your judicial fiat decisions
will not stand. They will join the ash heap
along with plessy v ferguson & brown v board of educatio.
They were unconstitutional decisions
that do not have the support of the majority
of the citizens of this fair land.
Trust in that, these too shall pass.
I for one can't wait to bury them.

Me thinks thou doesth protesteth too much.
Similarly I find you naive and shortsighted.
But that is to be expected of someone lost
in emotion over a subject.

This society has always provided a gray area
for the working girls. Massage parlors are
everywhere. Same thing goes on in there
that my atf and I do. This isn't new, nor
is it unmanageable. You are messing with
tradition. I am unaware of any municipalities
wherein it is de facto open season on hookers.
Jack the Ripper is not admired by any
civilized people or societies.

Desperate enough to play the rape card huh?
Yeah we all know civie girls don't get raped
or murdered or their cases sloppily handled
by disinterested police and DA's.
Uh no hon, the civie girls got very little
in the way of tangible benefits as a result
of being non- criminal types. The only civie
girls that get the pre-emptive type of security
you seek are the result of the men around them.
They have little to do with it.

Going back to the CPS fam ct scenario;
in retrospect a provider has better resources
to defend herself than some slut who just
gives it away. Most hobbyists are lawyers.
This would include a measure of judges.
Providers should have more $$$ in general
than a freebie tossing tart. A good enough
lawyer can roll over solicitation charges.
It's all about how resourceful you are.

Your argument's weakness is self-evident in that
you felt a need to get personally negative.
I always consider the source of my criticism.
Suffice to say you are in a moral glass house.
It'd be too easy to mock you. Just like a girl.

My malevolence doesn't dismiss my points.
I am as ugly as the reality requires.
Life is a bitch;
and you gotta be a bastard to deal with her.

In the end you would be no better off.
This culture will not be accepted because
of a few corrupt judges.
You'd be subject to ever increasing taxes
and forefeitures.
No admiration or respect from mainstream society.
But now your name is on a govt list.
Should you no longer wish to play their bs game
or they make it impossible for you to do business;
well they already know who you are.
You are even more of an outlaw now.

If you understand nothing else understand this.
In the eyes of the authoritarian types we are no good.
We already display the inclination to not do what we are
told. We are compromised as they see it. The only
remedy they will work towards is either re-education
and/or eventual elimination.

I do mean you well.

[Guest080613]

Originally Posted by AngelOK

Everyone pays taxes, Anaximander; the independents who don't are fools because they are opening themselves up for audit and seizure of everything they own (if not criminal charges). Remember, the IRS even took down Al Capone.

You are confusing decriminalization (what they have in New Zealand) with legalization (what they have in Nevada). The latter sometimes makes government a pimp, the former does not. But right now, the cops are brutal, predatory rapists, and that power needs to be taken out of their hands and that of CPS, who can abduct a woman's children WITHOUT TRIAL merely because she is accused of working to support them in a way the law doesn't like.

You are actually the one that's confused, Angel.

Point me to the US Code that criminalizes Prostitution. Can't find it? That's because at the FEDERAL level prostitution is not a crime. It's not supported. It's not specifically taxed as an activity at the federal level (no more so than being a bricklayer or lawyer). The US Government has no stand on it one way or the other.

Nor should they.

The prostitution laws on the books are state and local laws. Also as it should be.

Because there is nothing in the US Constitution specifically mentioning prostitution the US government has no authority to legalize or criminalize it.


Amendment 10 - Powers of the States and People. Ratified 12/15/1791. Note

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

If you don't like the prostitution laws you need to find out which laws you're in violation of (or are simply opposed to) and work to get THEM repealed or overturned. Prostitution is legal in the United States at a federal level. Nevada's legal brothels are proof of that. The states by the power of the 10th amendment have their own authority over regulating and/or prohibiting it and that's exactly what they do, just as the founding fathers intended.

Jack

BTW- you're also confused when you make the statement "everywhere in the free world except the U.S.". I don't consider Japan a "theocracies, totalitarian states, former totalitarian states, third-world backwaters and a few small countries", do you? (As just one example).



Green is legal, but regulated
Blue is legal, but certain activities like soliciting, advertising, and brothels are illegal
Red is Illegal
Gray is no data

[Shayla]

The only reason I would sign this is so that it could be regulated and this industry could be "cleaned up" a little bit.

[anaximander]

Originally Posted by Shayla

The only reason I would sign this is so that it could be regulated and this industry could be "cleaned up" a little bit.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

The nut of this is just who sets the regulations?
By whose std will you be judged?

Better to let sleeping dogs lie.

[coefficient]

Not signing.

Not trying to have 18-22 year old women who could be in the work force serving latte's and waiting tables with humility have an easy and legal way out as far as making $$ and developing a skewed view of the world.

most of you 20 something providers if walking into a college football locker room won't find much attraction in the zero % body fat, 6 pack rocking young, "fuck all day" players but rather the middle aged assistant coaches who all have 5 figure salaries.

[dilbert firestorm]

Originally Posted by ksjack

You are actually the one that's confused, Angel.

Point me to the US Code that criminalizes Prostitution. Can't find it? That's because at the FEDERAL level prostitution is not a crime. It's not supported. It's not specifically taxed as an activity at the federal level (no more so than being a bricklayer or lawyer). The US Government has no stand on it one way or the other.

actually there is. its called the mann act, it only involves interstate transport of prostitution.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mann_Act

[Guest080613]

Originally Posted by dilbert firestorm

actually there is. its called the mann act, it only involves interstate transport of prostitution.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mann_Act

Close, but no cigar.

It does not criminalize the act of prostitution. It makes it a crime for someone else to transport a female across state lines for prostitution. That's what the LAW says.

However you bring up a good point about what happens when the feds get into something they have no right or business to be in. The Mann Act was so abused to selectively prosecute (and even persecute) people for offense that were deemed "immoral" but really didn't fall under the law itself. This is what happens when we allow the federal government to overstep its bounds and legislate that which it has no constitutional authority to try to control.

Jack

OOOPS, forgot this, and it's from your link:

Hoke v. United States, 227 U.S. 308 (1913). The Court held that Congress could not regulate prostitution per se, as that was strictly the province of the states. Congress could, however, regulate interstate travel for purposes of prostitution or “immoral purposes.”