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pjorourke · 03-12-2011, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TexTushHog

How about we get rid of the alleged conflict if interest that has you guys so stirred up (as well as the same conflict of having regulated businesses make campaign contributions) and have public financing of elections? The political leaders won't be funancially beholden to anyone!!

How about you pair that with very strict term limits (e.g., no more than four terms in the House and Two in the Senate with a further cap on any government work at any level*) and you might have a deal.

*i.e. make these turkeys go get a real job and make a payroll.

charlestudor2005 · 03-12-2011, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pjorourke

How about you pair that with very strict term limits (e.g., no more than four terms in the House and Two in the Senate with a further cap on any government work at any level*) and you might have a deal.

*i.e. make these turkeys go get a real job and make a payroll.

No more Richard Nixons, Dick Chaneys, William Rogers or George HW Bushes? Seems to me the Pubs have made more of this than the Dems. Nevertheless, PJ, I'm shocked at your position.

pjorourke · 03-12-2011, 09:26 AM

And no more Ted Kennedy, Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, Bill Clinton (do I need to go on?)

Chuck, what does it take to get through to you that I am not a Republican. I am a Libertarian. Usually, the Republicans are more to my liking, but I also see their stupidity as well (e.g., the 2004-06 Congress that deserved to get thrown out on its ass). The Dems are closer to my pov on most social matters, but they want to be everyone's nanny and enforce it through a massive government. That I'll never buy.

nevergaveitathought · 03-12-2011, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pjorourke

*i.e. make these turkeys go get a real job and make a payroll.

never vote for an incumbent

(if at all possible)

DFW5Traveler · 03-12-2011, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pjorourke

How about you pair that with very strict term limits (e.g., no more than four terms in the House and Two in the Senate with a further cap on any government work at any level*) and you might have a deal.

*i.e. make these turkeys go get a real job and make a payroll.

WOOHOO!!! Term Limits

Quote:

Originally Posted by charlestudor2005

No more Richard Nixons, Dick Chaneys, William Rogers or George HW Bushes? Seems to me the Pubs have made more of this than the Dems. Nevertheless, PJ, I'm shocked at your position.

I could agree with that...

Quote:

Originally Posted by pjorourke

And no more Ted Kennedy, Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, Bill Clinton (do I need to go on?) ...and that...

Chuck, what does it take to get through to you that I am not a Republican. I am a Libertarian. Usually, the Republicans are more to my liking, but I also see their stupidity as well (e.g., the 2004-06 Congress that deserved to get thrown out on its ass). The Dems are closer to my pov on most social matters, but they want to be everyone's nanny and enforce it through a massive government. That I'll never buy.

Unfortunately, I don't think the R and D indoctrination is something they can forgo. They will always believe in the 2 party system and you are either with them or you are the enemy. I do not believe they can even comprehend that a libertarian is the true centrist. R's are the same way and will tell the conservative libertarians if they don't vote R, they are wasting their vote.

phatdaty · 03-12-2011, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TexTushHog

How about we get rid of the alleged conflict if interest that has you guys so stirred up (as well as the same conflict of having regulated businesses make campaign contributions) and have public financing of elections? The political leaders won't be funancially beholden to anyone!!

How about no campaigns beyond the bandwidth for a standard website website to list the planks of your campaign and a few national, regional, state and local public debates where the general public get to purchase raffles tickets to get a chance to ask the questions of the candidates (one winning ticket one question and each candidate must answer). No commercials, no touring, nothing. Equal footing. Just the facts and voters vote their conscience.

Better yet. Representation at the legislative branch is based only on random draw like a jury poll. It is your public duty to take a turn in the Congress (at local level city council, township trustee, state rep etc.). the only elections are executive branch and those are done with no frills public comparison and not campaigns. Judicial branch positions are appointed by executive branch. Any true change to the constitution requires nomination by legislative branch, approval of executive branch, validation by judicial branch, and then finally a populace vote if it involves money or property. True checks and balances: Magna Carta style.

In other words make it an incredible investment of time and energy to pass a law or do something weird with the budget.

Putting all of my suggestions together so far the unemployment lines will be filled with lawyers, insurance executives, lobbyists, professional politicians (there's an oxymoron for you), tax accountants and IRS employees.

If you can't create, produce, grow, build, craft, provide care, or training, or do something useful besides the stir the illusion of industry to cover that you are sucking the government tit, get a shovel or a broom in your hands and help clean the place up.

If I wasn't such a whoremonger, maybe I could get into public office and fix things. . .nah.

phatdaty · 03-12-2011, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by charlestudor2005

@phatdaty

Cookie cutter one-size-fits-all solutions don't solve extremely complex social and economic problems in%20an equitable manner.

Try the Magna Carta, or if you want a modern version, read up on Harbour Conservatism.

nevergaveitathought · 03-12-2011, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phatdaty

How about no campaigns beyond the bandwidth for a standard website website to list the planks of your campaign and a few national, regional, state and local public debates where the general public get to purchase raffles tickets to get a chance to ask the questions of the candidates (one winning ticket one question and each candidate must answer). No commercials, no touring, nothing. Equal footing. Just the facts and voters vote their conscience.

Better yet. Representation at the legislative branch is based only on random draw like a jury poll. It is your public duty to take a turn in the Congress (at local level city council, township trustee, state rep etc.). the only elections are executive branch and those are done with no frills public comparison and not campaigns. Judicial branch positions are appointed by executive branch. Any true change to the constitution requires nomination by legislative branch, approval of executive branch, validation by judicial branch, and then finally a populace vote if it involves money or property. True checks and balances: Magna Carta style.

In other words make it an incredible investment of time and energy to pass a law or do something weird with the budget.

Putting all of my suggestions together so far the unemployment lines will be filled with lawyers, insurance executives, lobbyists, professional politicians (there's an oxymoron for you), tax accountants and IRS employees.

If you can't create, produce, grow, build, craft, provide care, or training, or do something useful besides the stir the illusion of industry to cover that you are sucking the government tit, get a shovel or a broom in your hands and help clean the place up.

If I wasn't such a whoremonger, maybe I could get into public office and fix things. . .nah.

i like your distaste for what we now have and the users with lying, mostly self imposed, sob stories

charlestudor2005 · 03-12-2011, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pjorourke

And no more Ted Kennedy, Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, Bill Clinton (do I need to go on?)

Chuck, what does it take to get through to you that I am not a Republican. I am a Libertarian. Usually, the Republicans are more to my liking, but I also see their stupidity as well (e.g., the 2004-06 Congress that deserved to get thrown out on its ass). The Dems are closer to my pov on most social matters, but they want to be everyone's nanny and enforce it through a massive government. That I'll never buy.

Clinton did only 2 terms in the White House and no other federal service (unless you count the numerous disaster relief funds to which he has been appointed). I agree with the others.

I am pleasantly surprised by your POV on social issues.

pjorourke · 03-12-2011, 11:20 AM

Clinton never worked a day in private industry in his life. Prior to President he was in government in Arkansas forever.

How does my social pov surprise you? Have you never read my posts here? Name one right wing social position that you have seen me espouse?

pjorourke · 03-12-2011, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phatdaty

How about no campaigns beyond the bandwidth for a standard website website to list the planks of your campaign and a few national, regional, state and local public debates where the general public get to purchase raffles tickets to get a chance to ask the questions of the candidates (one winning ticket one question and each candidate must answer). No commercials, no touring, nothing. Equal footing. Just the facts and voters vote their conscience.

Campaign limits are really the ultimate incumbent protection act. They only make sense where there are strong term limits.

Marcus Aurelius · 03-12-2011, 11:50 AM

I lived in Ark when Clinton was Gov.
I seem to remember he tried very hard to have public school teachers take tests to prove their ability to teach. The public had been complaining loudly about the lack of competent teachers.

The teachers union beat that down.

charlestudor2005 · 03-12-2011, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pjorourke

Clinton never worked a day in private industry in his life. Prior to President he was in government in Arkansas forever.

Your examples were all federal...so I thought you were talking about that. Clinton worked for a short time in a law firm, but other than that, yes, he was an elected official until he went to the White House. After the White House (some 11 years now) he has worked in private industry the whole time.

pjorourke · 03-12-2011, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by charlestudor2005

After the White House (some 11 years now) he has worked in private industry the whole time.

Private industry, yeah right -- Clinton, Inc.

charlestudor2005 · 03-12-2011, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pjorourke

Private industry, yeah right -- Clinton, Inc.

Uhhh, I strongly suspect the Clinton Foundation is a 501(c)(3) operation. Does it make money? Sure. IMHO he's probably doing more through his foundation than any other former president.

But he's no longer working for any federal/state government unless you call the pension he gets "work."