Any Bankers Here? Please Comment On What a FARCE the Trump Trial Is!!

[Lucas McCain]

Originally Posted by The_Waco_Kid

as someone who claims to have an accounting degree from an Ivy League school did you skip the class on asset valuation?

What would my accounting degree have to do with valuation methods? I learned valuations in finance and not accounting. Just FYI, if you want to try to be slick with me about what I know, at least know what you are talking about so I can take you somewhat seriously.

You really should watch and listen to folks other than idiots like Fucker Carlson so that you can make more sense in the future.

Anyway, I've already addressed the topic. My education and degrees have nothing to do with the topic; so, play time with someone who does not know the difference between accounting and finance is over for now.

[The_Waco_Kid]

Originally Posted by Lucas McCain

What would my accounting degree have to do with valuation methods? I learned valuations in finance and not accounting. Just FYI, if you want to try to be slick with me about what I know, at least know what you are talking about so I can take you somewhat seriously.

You really should watch and listen to folks other than idiots like Fucker Carlson so that you can make more sense in the future.

Anyway, I've already addressed the topic. My education and degrees have nothing to do with the topic; so, play time with someone who does not know the difference between accounting and finance is over for now.

so you don't know what you are talking about. thanks for clearing that up.

[1blackman1]

Originally Posted by The_Waco_Kid

it was "proven" by summary judgement by a retard leftist judge and a prosecutor with an agenda.


once again .. who where the victims?



even democrats see this as a political farce.

Was Trump’s apartment 10,000 sqft or 30,000? I'm sure that's easy enough to determine. If it's 10,000 he lied by 300% to increase the value of the property. Summary judgment rather than trial would surely be proper in determining that, right?

Were some of his properties rent controlled? If they were the income from those units is easily determined, correct? If he stated the value of the income as “true market rate” rather than the actual rent controlled income as a means of increasing the property value, surely that's obviously inaccurate, right? Summary judgment rather than trial would be the proper method of disposing of that issue, correct?

[Why_Yes_I_Do]

You may have exceed rational limits in the amount of "ifs" used in a rationalization.

Originally Posted by 1blackman1

Was Trump’s apartment 10,000 sqft or 30,000? I'm sure that's easy enough to determine. If it's 10,000 he lied by 300% to increase the value of the property. Summary judgment rather than trial would surely be proper in determining that, right?

Were some of his properties rent controlled? If they were the income from those units is easily determined, correct? If he stated the value of the income as “true market rate” rather than the actual rent controlled income as a means of increasing the property value, surely that's obviously inaccurate, right? Summary judgment rather than trial would be the proper method of disposing of that issue, correct?

[VitaMan]

Originally Posted by The_Waco_Kid

once again .. who where the victims?

This shows you have no understanding of the issues of this case. This was a civil case, not
a criminal case.

You must never have taken out a bank loan.

[1blackman1]

Originally Posted by Why_Yes_I_Do

You may have exceed rational limits in the amount of "ifs" used in a rationalization.

Yet you provided no answers to the simple questions posed.

[Yssup Rider]

Again, a discussion has devolved into idiocy.

The loony MAGAs think that if they yell and scream enough, Trump will not have stolen hundreds of millions from the banks over the years. He would not have sexually assaulted anyone. He wouldn’t have had to pick his own electors. And he damned sure would never have told the mob to fight like hell and go to the Capitol.

Yet here we are. He did and MAGAs still don’t accept it.

No use debating with a rock.

[VitaMan]

The size and the scope and the long time period the fraud went on are all enormous.


Plus no contrition by Mr. Trump. Only lies and anger. These all played a part in the judgement amount.

[lustylad]

Originally Posted by 1blackman1

Good riddance.

Thanks, 1b1... this one's for you... an update on the outrageous Engeron-James kangaroo trialf verdict, which is being appealed.

It's not looking good for those far-left reprobates (like Letitia James and Arthur Engeron) who are hell-bent on twisting, abusing and weaponizing the legal system to seize assets & businesses owned by their political opponents.


New Doubts About Trump’s Fraud Verdict

Appellate judges say New York Attorney General Letitia James may have exceeded her legal authority.

By Editorial Board
Sept. 29, 2024 3:50 pm ET


The Democratic Party’s lawfare strategy to defeat Donald Trump took another blow last week, not that it received much media attention. Three prosecutions have already hit snags, and now a New York appellate court has expressed considerable doubt about Attorney General Letitia James’s $489 million fraud prosecution and verdict.

A five-judge appellate panel on Thursday heard Mr. Trump’s appeal of a lower-court judge’s penalty for allegedly inflating the value of his real-estate assets to obtain better loan terms. Ms. James’s lawsuit was unusual since nobody claimed to be harmed by the former President’s alleged legerdemain, which is ordinarily required in fraud cases.

Several appellate judges noted as much. “I’m sorry, what’s being described sounds an awful lot like a potential commercial dispute between private actors,” Justice John Higgitt noted. It seems, he mused, that the AG is “going into an area that wasn’t intended for her jurisdiction.” He suggested the court may need to impose “guardrails” on the AG’s power.

Justice David Friedman concurred: “You’ve got two really sophisticated parties in which no one lost any money.” Prior cases brought under the state civil fraud law involved corporate actions with large numbers of putative victims, such as banks bilking customers. “You don’t have anything like that here,” Justice Friedman said.

“There has to be some limitation on what the Attorney General can do in interfering in these private transactions where people don’t claim harm,” said Justice Peter Moulton. He added that “the immense penalty in this case is troubling” given that the “parties left these transactions happy about how things went down.”

Ms. James literally campaigned for her office on a pledge to prosecute Mr. Trump for something. Her method is select an unpopular target first, then look for evidence to file charges. Trial Judge Arthur Engoron also allowed some highly dubious estimates of Mr. Trump’s allegedly ill-gotten gains.

The job of appellate courts is to take a detached look at how the law is applied to protect due process, especially for politically unpopular defendants. Doing so in this case is crucial for the rule of law and future defendants in New York state.

https://www.wsj.com/opinion/new-doub...dges-3e0a999e?

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by lustylad

New Doubts About Trump’s Fraud Verdict

Appellate judges say New York Attorney General Letitia James may have exceeded her legal authority.

From the NYT,

Justice Friedman asked at one point whether the attorney general’s office had conceded that, although “Trump received a lower interest rate than he might otherwise have received,” he still had sufficient assets to receive a preferential rate.

“Absolutely not your honor,” Ms. Vale replied. “The evidence is to the contrary.”

Friedman is one of the appellate judges and Vale is a New York deputy solicitor general. And what she said is a bald faced lie. Perhaps it's not quite as despicable as lying to convict an innocent accused of murder, but it's a bald faced lie all the same.

Yes, Trump claimed a net worth of $4 or $5 billion. And an unbiased valuer might have estimated a number half of that. The idea that a personal guarantee from a borrower worth $2 or $3 billion wouldn't receive a preferential rate over a nonrecourse loan is ridiculous. And Deutsch Bank, the main alleged victim, looked at cases that assumed Trump's net worth was around $2 billion to $3 billion when it agreed to the interest rate.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/09/26/n...als-court.html
https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/28/polit...ony/index.html

Originally Posted by lustylad

Thanks, 1b1... this one's for you... an update on the outrageous Engoron-James kangaroo trial verdict, which is being appealed.

I'm not sure you can assume you're getting an unbiased view when Blackman comments on legal issues here. He's posted about his extensive background in Democratic Party politics.

[Tiny]

One other thing, when Kangaroo Engoron went to determine how much money the state of New York would take away from Trump and put in its coffers, he assumed Trump’s personal guarantee was worth nothing. He assumed the interest rate should have been the same as that for a nonrecourse loan, secured only by the specific projects and assets that Trump was borrowing against to build or acquire. And he thereby came up with a number of $450 million, including interest, none of which would go to Deutsche Bank or other alleged victims.

[The_Waco_Kid]

Originally Posted by Tiny

One other thing, when Kangaroo Engoron went to determine how much money the state of New York would take away from Trump and put in its coffers, he assumed Trump’s personal guarantee was worth nothing. He assumed the interest rate should have been the same as that for a nonrecourse loan, secured only by the specific projects and assets that Trump was borrowing against to build or acquire. And he thereby came up with a number of $450 million, including interest, none of which would go to Deutsche Bank or other alleged victims.

this entire case is going to get shitcanned, as it should. a lesser known fact about Deutsche Bank beyond the fact that they couldn't care less about Trump over-inflating anything (they did their own appraisal as all banks do) is that Trump's loan wasn't a commercial real estate loan. it was in fact a private equity loan from their "high net worth equity" lending group. they wanted to loan Trump money because they wanted to hook a "Big Fish".


OMG!!! it was really Deutsche Bank that took advantage of poor unsuspecting Trump!!


maybe James should have gone after them instead!!

bahahahaaaaa


this bum judge intentionally took "low ball" estimates on Trump's properties to "prove" he somehow cheated a sophisticated entity like Deutsche Bank. nonsense!!


as has been mentioned here many times .. Deutsche Bank. got their loan repaid with interest. who's the victim here? Trump!! this is so clearly a political sham of a conviction even people who "Hate" Trump should reconsider this shit case.


i did find one item interesting. that judge valued Mar-A-Lago at something like 16-18 million which seems ridiculously low for such a property. not so fast fellow posters!!


FOX when all this started had some real estate expert on and he noted that Engeron was correct in general to value Mar-A-Lago as a "Private Club" ... which for now it is. that was the deal Trump had to make in large part because he did intend to make it a private club and agreed that he wouldn't subdivide the property into several mansions and sell them.


the expert said that as such .. a "Private Club" not a private residence does lower the overall value. that said, he stated that even as a "private club" the judge's value was way low in his opinion, he offered .. as a private club and given it's history as the Post mansion he would value it at about 35-40 million. basically double the judge inteionally low ball value .. even as a private club.


but it gets even better! that expert also said that the deal with Palm Beach county only prevented Trump from ever subdividing the property. probably in perpetuity meaning it would be binding on any buyer. not sure about that but i think he mentioned that. but that's not important .. what he also said is that the agreement with Palm Beach county does NOT prevent Trump from simply closing Mar-A-Lago as a private club and .. wait for it ..


selling Mar-A-Lago as a private residence.


care to guess what he'd list Mar-A-Lago as a private residence?

he said this .. "If i were Trump's listing agent i would advise him to list for it at least 100 million dollars .. if not more".


bahahahaa

[Tiny]

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c5y09q1zgg8o

Another victory for the American Judicial System in the battle against overbreadth and theft by the state! A New York appeals court has set aside the $500 million award from Trump et al to the state of New York. It correctly IMO did not throw out the nonfinancial penalties against the defendants and the finding that the Trump Organization committed civil fraud.

[txdot-guy]

Originally Posted by Tiny

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c5y09q1zgg8o

Another victory for the American Judicial System in the battle against overbreadth and theft by the state! A New York appeals court has set aside the $500 million award from Trump et al to the state of New York. It correctly IMO did not throw out the nonfinancial penalties against the defendants and the finding that the Trump Organization committed civil fraud.

First of all thanks for bumping this thread rather than just opening a new one.

Secondly the fact that this was overturned on appeal was the expected outcome.

My question would be at this point is what number is appropriate? Will there be any financial penalties at this point?

The court upheld the other restrictions imposed. Will these restrictions now go into effect and do they even matter now?

Engoron banned Trump and the Trump Organization from applying for loans from banks registered in the state for three years, and effectively barred Donald Trump Jr. and Eric Trump from running the business for two years.

Do we need to wait for the next appeal to get some sort of closure on this case? Will Trump die before the end of the appeal? Talk about justice delayed.

[Jacky S]

Latisha James is probably studying up on this right now.

https://www.google.com/search?q=mali...&client=safari