2 Decades Of American Blood and Treasure Gone Almost In Minutes, Thanks Joey Bibs!

[gnadfly]

Originally Posted by SpeedRacerXXX

The religion spouts off nothing. A few radicals within the Islam faith spout deat the America.

Please cite the source of your 5% estimate.

I've written about this before. I knew a white, male UoHouston grad that I worked with who converted to Islam. He told me the real story after 9/11. To them, you are unclean. Go to your local mosque and ask the Iman to sit around for a few lessons and prayer services.

Originally Posted by adav8s28

To borrow a line from former tennis star John McEnroe "you can't be serious". It's true Clyburn saved Biden's campaign in the primaries. It's also true that the payback for that support was Kamala Harris (or another person of color) getting picked to be number 2 on the ticket. Your hero the Trumpster lost the election by 7 million votes because he MISMANAGED a pandemic. You can't put that on Clyburn. Sleepy Joe is doing a wonderful job. We have been there (AG) 20 years. It's time come home.

1. Stock market is up.

2. 140 million plus have been vaccinated

3. Mitch "the turtle" McConnell and some other Senate republicans ageed to an infrastucture deal with sleepy Joe.

4. Last but not least, Gadfly's friends in Michigan got their $1400 stimulus check on time. Which is what Trump wanted before he got voted out.

What does any of this have to do with the OP? Reported.

[HedonistForever]

Originally Posted by royamcr

"By the standards of the time, which is the 7th century A.D., the laws of war that are laid down by the Quran are actually reasonably humane," he says. "Then we turn to the Bible, and we actually find something that is for many people a real surprise. There is a specific kind of warfare laid down in the Bible which we can only call genocide."

It is called herem, and it means total annihilation. Consider the Book of 1 Samuel, when God instructs King Saul to attack the Amalekites: "And utterly destroy all that they have, and do not spare them," God says through the prophet Samuel. "But kill both man and woman, infant and nursing child, ox and sheep, camel and donkey."

When Saul failed to do that, God took away his kingdom.

"In other words," Jenkins says, "Saul has committed a dreadful sin by failing to complete genocide. And that passage echoes through Christian history. It is often used, for example, in American stories of the confrontation with Indians — not just is it legitimate to kill Indians, but you are violating God's law if you do not."


In the Quran violence is generally recommended only as self-defense, whereas in the Bible "[t]here is a specific kind of warfare laid down ... which we can only call genocide.

That was insightful, interesting and IMHO just once again shows the utter bullshit of all religion. They are all worthless. Religion should be encapsulated in one very short sentence. "Do unto others as you would have others do unto you". That is all religion should teach, period. Humanity would be better off with no religion.

[oeb11]

interesting thoughts - Of the organized religions - which has a majority that generally obeys te golden rule - and which ignores it in favor of Jihadist Genocide??
Simple answer.

DPSTs do love the jihadist radical islamists who plan to kill all of them for their world wide caliphate.

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by HedonistForever

...the utter bullshit of all religion.

... "Do unto others as you would have others do unto you". That is all religion should teach, period.

[HedonistForever]

Originally Posted by SpeedRacerXXX

What you say is true -- we don't know whether Trump would have done any better. Did Trump propose keeping Bagram Air Base in his proposed May withdrawal of troops from Afghanistan?

I can find nothing that would suggest Trump would have kept troops at Bagram or provided support for Afghan troops. So it's difficult to condemn Biden without also condemning Trump.

The height of the fighting season? Would a May withdrawal of troops made a difference? Predicting the fall of Afghanistan back to the Taliban was hardly a difficult prediction to make, whether we withdrew in May or September.

No, actually it's not difficult since only one man put "this" action in play and now we are hearing that from the top down, from the Secy. of Defense, to the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, to Commander's in the field, all told Joe Biden, "don't do it this way" and he rejected all of their advice.


https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/17/u...ithdrawal.html


Debating Exit From Afghanistan, Biden Rejected Generals’ Views


The current military leadership hoped it, too, could convince a new president to maintain at least a modest troop presence, trying to talk Mr. Biden into keeping a residual force and setting conditions on any withdrawal. But Mr. Biden refused to be persuaded.

There would be no conditions put on the withdrawal, Mr. Biden told the men, cutting off the last thread — one that had worked with Mr. Trump — and that Mr. Austin and General Milley hoped could stave off a full drawdown.

They were told, Zero meant zero.

Shortly after Mr. Austin was sworn in on Jan. 22, two days after the inauguration, he, General Milley and two top military officers — Gen. Austin S. Miller, the commander of U.S. forces in Afghanistan, and Gen. Kenneth F. McKenzie Jr., the head of the military’s Central Command, were in lock step in recommending that about 3,000 to 4,500 troops stay in Afghanistan.
The Pentagon’s behind-the-scenes effort got a lift from a congressionally appointed panel led by a friend of all four men: Gen. Joseph F. Dunford Jr., a retired four-star Marine general who was also a former top commander in Afghanistan and past chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. On Feb. 3, it recommended that the Biden administration should abandon the May 1 exit deadline negotiated with the Taliban and instead reduce American forces further only as security conditions improved.


The report by the Afghanistan Study Group, a bipartisan panel examining the peace deal reached in February 2020 under the Trump administration, found that withdrawing troops based on a strict timeline, rather than how well the Taliban adhered to the agreement to reduce violence and improve security, risked the stability of the country and a potential civil war once international forces left.


https://www.wsj.com/articles/biden-rebuffed-commanders-advice-in-decision-to-leave-afghanistan-11618696597

Biden Rebuffed Commanders’ Advice in Decision to Leave Afghanistan

Top generals favored holding the line at 2,500 U.S. troops while negotiators pursued a peace deal

Doesn't matter now what Trump may or may not have done. I'm certainly not going to make an argument that he would have done better because I don't know. What I do know, what we can all see, is that Biden didn't have the strategic insight as to how to do this better than what has been done. This is 100% on Joe Biden.

Yes, according to every military annalist I have heard speak in the last few days, doing this at the height of the fighting season ( you sound as if you don't belief there is a height of the fighting season ), there is and it is now which is why this has happened so fast. There are no adverse weather conditions to slow down movement.

And I'll remind you that just days ago, Biden is quoted as saying that he did not think the fall of Afghanistan to the Taliban was inevitable.

He was either stupid, my opinion or he was lying to the American people which has come to be a daily exercise for this President. He is lying about Afghanistan, he is lying about the border and he is lying about taking a more moderate approach to his Presidency. Bernie Sanders and AOC might as well be President and VP.

[Strokey_McDingDong]

Atheism isn't a religion, texassapper.

There may be some tribalism and groupthink among atheists, but fundamentally atheism is not a religion.

An atheist is just someone who doesn't believe in God. Simply believing in God alone isn't really a religion, either, I don't think. That's theism. In my mind, a bonified religion is based on some kind of doctrine, documented event, philosophical teaching or mythology that is thought to have supernatural origins.

When one claims to have information that is of a divine source, then that is what creates a religion or cult. Take Scientology for example. That's a new religion, which is based entirely on information that is believed to be of a supernatural source, psychically channeled by L. Ron Hubbard. The main religions of the world are based on documents which are believed to be of supernatural origin, or at the very least, written by authors who were inspired by or witnessed supernatural events.

[oeb11]

Atheism is teh 'denial of religion".


a·the·ism


noun: atheism

Disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.

[oeb11]

He was either stupid, my opinion or he was lying to the American people which has come to be a daily exercise for this President. He is lying about Afghanistan, he is lying about the border and he is lying about taking a more moderate approach to his Presidency. Bernie Sanders and AOC might as well be President and VP.


all of teh above characterizes fiden - plus senility, and criminal abuse of teh Constitution and bill of rights, and Equality for all under teh law.



Buck fiden. and his criminal cabal circus too!

[Strokey_McDingDong]

The Taliban is "building back better" LOL

[gnadfly]

What comedian said "Bombing Afghanistan just rearranges the rocks?"

Just read where Kabul will fall in 24 hours. If so, why are we sending 5000 troops there? Where will they land? How will they get out? Why haven't we destroyed all the data and equipment already?

[adav8s28]

Originally Posted by gnadfly

What does any of this have to do with the OP? Reported.

How come you did not ask this question about post #48? The post that suggests Congressman Jim Clyburn be prosecuted for supporting a campaign?

What did that have to do with what the OP reported? You did not say or write one word about that. So, don't come crying about my post. All I did was defend Clyburn. My post was relevant to the OP. I stated we had been there (AG) for 20 years, it's time to come home.

I blamed Bush43 for invading Iraq. I did not blame Bush43 for going to AG. I did not blame Obama for choosing to keep sending troops there. I am not going to blame Biden for wanting to get out after 20 years of keeping their government stable.

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by adav8s28

I blamed Bush43 for invading Iraq.

What did you blame on Clinton 42?

[texassapper]

Originally Posted by LexusLover

What did you blame on Clinton 42?

In retrospect, Paula Jone, The Whitewater scandal, Travelgate, The OKC bombing, the Branch Davidians, Elian Gonzalez, The First WTC bombing, The Monica Lewinsky impeachment were the good old days if not the Gilded age of the end of the Republic...

[SpeedRacerXXX]

Originally Posted by HedonistForever

No, actually it's not difficult since only one man put "this" action in play and now we are hearing that from the top down, from the Secy. of Defense, to the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, to Commander's in the field, all told Joe Biden, "don't do it this way" and he rejected all of their advice.


https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/17/u...ithdrawal.html


Debating Exit From Afghanistan, Biden Rejected Generals’ Views


The current military leadership hoped it, too, could convince a new president to maintain at least a modest troop presence, trying to talk Mr. Biden into keeping a residual force and setting conditions on any withdrawal. But Mr. Biden refused to be persuaded.

There would be no conditions put on the withdrawal, Mr. Biden told the men, cutting off the last thread — one that had worked with Mr. Trump — and that Mr. Austin and General Milley hoped could stave off a full drawdown.

They were told, Zero meant zero.

Shortly after Mr. Austin was sworn in on Jan. 22, two days after the inauguration, he, General Milley and two top military officers — Gen. Austin S. Miller, the commander of U.S. forces in Afghanistan, and Gen. Kenneth F. McKenzie Jr., the head of the military’s Central Command, were in lock step in recommending that about 3,000 to 4,500 troops stay in Afghanistan.
The Pentagon’s behind-the-scenes effort got a lift from a congressionally appointed panel led by a friend of all four men: Gen. Joseph F. Dunford Jr., a retired four-star Marine general who was also a former top commander in Afghanistan and past chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. On Feb. 3, it recommended that the Biden administration should abandon the May 1 exit deadline negotiated with the Taliban and instead reduce American forces further only as security conditions improved.


The report by the Afghanistan Study Group, a bipartisan panel examining the peace deal reached in February 2020 under the Trump administration, found that withdrawing troops based on a strict timeline, rather than how well the Taliban adhered to the agreement to reduce violence and improve security, risked the stability of the country and a potential civil war once international forces left.


https://www.wsj.com/articles/biden-rebuffed-commanders-advice-in-decision-to-leave-afghanistan-11618696597

Biden Rebuffed Commanders’ Advice in Decision to Leave Afghanistan

Top generals favored holding the line at 2,500 U.S. troops while negotiators pursued a peace deal

Doesn't matter now what Trump may or may not have done. I'm certainly not going to make an argument that he would have done better because I don't know. What I do know, what we can all see, is that Biden didn't have the strategic insight as to how to do this better than what has been done. This is 100% on Joe Biden.

Yes, according to every military annalist I have heard speak in the last few days, doing this at the height of the fighting season ( you sound as if you don't belief there is a height of the fighting season ), there is and it is now which is why this has happened so fast. There are no adverse weather conditions to slow down movement.

And I'll remind you that just days ago, Biden is quoted as saying that he did not think the fall of Afghanistan to the Taliban was inevitable.

He was either stupid, my opinion or he was lying to the American people which has come to be a daily exercise for this President. He is lying about Afghanistan, he is lying about the border and he is lying about taking a more moderate approach to his Presidency. Bernie Sanders and AOC might as well be President and VP.

The Taliban would have retaken Afghanistan as soon as we left no matter which POTUS made the decision, no matter what date we decided to leave. The U.S. has been training their troops for 20 years in order for them to be able to defend THEIR country. We learned nothing from Viet Nam.

[texassapper]

Originally Posted by SpeedRacerXXX

The Taliban would have retaken Afghanistan as soon as we left no matter which POTUS made the decision, no matter what date we decided to leave. The U.S. has been training their troops for 20 years in order for them to be able to defend THEIR country. We learned nothing from Viet Nam.

Who is we? The Democrats would scream war crime if we just did what war requires. Killing 1/3 of a nations population will take the piss and vinegar right out of them, but how many people have the stomach for it.

We certainly haven't elected a President to office that has the stomach to do the right thing and be branded a butcher for his remaining days. Few among us can put a man in the ground, let alone millions, and sleep well at night. For those that can or learned to deal, it makes decision making very easy on questions like this.

People can debate just cause and national will (or in this case religious will) until the cows come home. At the end of the day if you aren't willing to kill men, women, and children in numbers high enough to permanently pacify a nation, then you might as well not go to war in the first place. All you will do is kill your own troops and achieve nothing. The entire Country should have been depopulated and the land apportioned out to neighboring nations. Fcuk the UN.