For Eccieuser, why BLM is misguided

[Tiny]

We're hijacking gnadfly's thread so I'm starting a new one.

Originally Posted by Tiny

See my response to your post in the Stone thread. I'm not sure whether you're describing BLM riots or the federal government's response to Covid, but either way I don't see what either has to do with federal taxation. BLM is a distraction from real problems, like a fucked up criminal justice system, an educational system that prioritizes teachers unions instead of students, and public health and a health care system that costs out the wazoo but does a piss poor job of providing good, affordable outcomes, not even mentioning our response or lack thereof to Covid. All of this hurts blacks more than whites. The problem is inefficient government and, in the case of health care, inefficient incentives and regulation. We already spend more on incarceration, education and health care than just about any place in the world. You're not going to improve any of that by blindly throwing more money at it or by taking capital away from the capitalists.

Originally Posted by eccieuser9500

BLM riots? You're steering straight right wing. Are these times getting to you? Stray over to my side.

I have some hope for you. Those tax dollars need to be spent wisely. Not killing the colored. Training and reprogramming for a better society.

If "right wing" means I think with my brain and not my heart, that's very true.

I wasn't clear. Several years ago I looked at the number of blacks and non-blacks killed by police. Also at the number of police killed by blacks versus other races. And finally the number of people killed by police in other countries.

Based on that, police in the USA are indeed too quick to pull the trigger. But the % of police killed by blacks versus other races wasn't out of line with the % of blacks (versus other races) killed by police. I don't think there's evidence for bias based on the numbers. I just think the killings of whites doesn't make the news. Furthermore, this isn't a huge problem. About 200 blacks are killed by the police annually, compared to 800 nonblacks.

However, yes, black lives do matter. And the BLM is totally unfocused on what does matter. What does matter? Well, what I wrote about above, and the numbers back me up:

1. Criminal justice system - Black men get longer sentences, have less chance of parole and a greater chance of getting nabbed for probation violations, and IMHO are more likely to be convicted for committing a crime than non-blacks. Thirty-three percent of black males have been convicted of felonies. Try getting a good job with a felony on your record.

2. Education system - Blacks on average have lower SAT scores and lower high school graduation rates. This shows up in lower incomes and lower quality of life.

3. Health - Life expectancy for blacks is 75 years versus 78.6 years for whites, 81.9 years for Latinos and 86.3 years for Asian Americans.

"1", "2" and "3" above are a travesty. There are steps that politicians can and should have taken to address these, far beyond what they've done so far.

If BLM were conducting peaceful protests about these issues, it would make a lot of sense. I've got a particular problem with what's happened because it conflicts with a couple of issues I'm passionate about, the destruction of capital and the spread of Covid. Government destroys capital through extortionate taxation and over-regulation. The violent BLM protesters do it through outright destruction of property, plant and equipment. They've destroyed businesses and jobs. And, paraphrasing Michelle Obama, your side had taken the high road on Covid. More people on the left wear masks and social distance. You don't have people on your side arguing that it's every American's god given right to sit shoulder to shoulder indoors without masks in church or at a sporting event. The protesters threw this out the window when they came together in large numbers, many without masks.

The onus to correct these problems, whether it's how police treat blacks when they arrest them or items "1", "2" and "3" above, probably falls harder on Democratic politicians than Republicans. At least when it comes to killings by police and education in large cities, it's the Democrats who have control.

[oeb11]

Tiny - You are well researched into the signs and symptoms. We in america do have issues - yet the problems you describe are symptoms.

How can we address and improve matters ???


Let's look at BLM - from their web site:


Black Lives matter:https://blacklivesmatter.com/what-we...Omaqe-JKF3vsa_
What We Believe


Four years ago, what is now known as the Black Lives Matter Global Network began to organize. It started out as a chapter-based, member-led organization whose mission was to build local power and to intervene when violence was inflicted on Black communities by the state and vigilantes.
In the years since, we’ve committed to struggling together and to imagining and creating a world free of anti-Blackness, where every Black person has the social, economic, and political power to thrive.
Black Lives Matter began as a call to action in response to state-sanctioned violence and anti-Black racism. Our intention from the very beginning was to connect Black people from all over the world who have a shared desire for justice to act together in their communities. The impetus for that commitment was, and still is, the rampant and deliberate violence inflicted on us by the state.
Enraged by the death of Trayvon Martin and the subsequent acquittal of his killer, George Zimmerman, and inspired by the 31-day takeover of the Florida State Capitol by POWER U and the Dream Defenders, we took to the streets. A year later, we set out together on the Black Lives Matter Freedom Ride to Ferguson, in search of justice for Mike Brown and all of those who have been torn apart by state-sanctioned violence and anti-Black racism. Forever changed, we returned home and began building the infrastructure for the Black Lives Matter Global Network, which, even in its infancy, has become a political home for many.
Ferguson helped to catalyze a movement to which we’ve all helped give life. Organizers who call this network home have ousted anti-Black politicians, won critical legislation to benefit Black lives, and changed the terms of the debate on Blackness around the world. Through movement and relationship building, we have also helped catalyze other movements and shifted culture with an eye toward the dangerous impacts of anti-Blackness.
These are the results of our collective efforts.
The Black Lives Matter Global Network is as powerful as it is because of our membership, our partners, our supporters, our staff, and you. Our continued commitment to liberation for all Black people means we are continuing the work of our ancestors and fighting for our collective freedom because it is our duty.
Every day, we recommit to healing ourselves and each other, and to co-creating alongside comrades, allies, and family a culture where each person feels seen, heard, and supported.
We acknowledge, respect, and celebrate differences and commonalities.
We work vigorously for freedom and justice for Black people and, by extension, all people.
We intentionally build and nurture a beloved community that is bonded together through a beautiful struggle that is restorative, not depleting.
We are unapologetically Black in our positioning. In affirming that Black Lives Matter, we need not qualify our position. To love and desire freedom and justice for ourselves is a prerequisite for wanting the same for others.
We see ourselves as part of the global Black family, and we are aware of the different ways we are impacted or privileged as Black people who exist in different parts of the world.
We are guided by the fact that all Black lives matter, regardless of actual or perceived sexual identity, gender identity, gender expression, economic status, ability, disability, religious beliefs or disbeliefs, immigration status, or location.
We make space for transgender brothers and sisters to participate and lead.
We are self-reflexive and do the work required to dismantle cisgender privilege and uplift Black trans folk, especially Black trans women who continue to be disproportionately impacted by trans-antagonistic violence.
We build a space that affirms Black women and is free from sexism, misogyny, and environments in which men are centered.
We practice empathy. We engage comrades with the intent to learn about and connect with their contexts.
We make our spaces family-friendly and enable parents to fully participate with their children. We dismantle the patriarchal practice that requires mothers to work “double shifts” so that they can mother in private even as they participate in public justice work.
We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively care for one another, especially our children, to the degree that mothers, parents, and children are comfortable.
We foster a queer‐affirming network. When we gather, we do so with the intention of freeing ourselves from the tight grip of heteronormative thinking, or rather, the belief that all in the world are heterosexual (unless s/he or they disclose otherwise).
We cultivate an intergenerational and communal network free from ageism. We believe that all people, regardless of age, show up with the capacity to lead and learn.
We embody and practice justice, liberation, and peace in our engagements with one another.




The leaders of BLM are avowed Marxists dedicated to a marxist takeover of America.

In addition - they are anti family, and anti Christian, and pro homosexuality and anti heterosexual commitment in marriage.



I hold all equal under the Law - and gay people. and other of the LGBTQ persuasion should be and are free to practice their sexuality between consenting adults .

The marxist ideology and superiority ( teaching in schools and imposition of , and prohibition of heterosexuality I see coming) of homosexuality planned by 'Only" BLM is a nonstrter for me.



I do not feel this marxist organization has anything of value to offer indealing with the issues of America - only rioting, looting, and violent revolution.



Do Not donate to OBLM.
IMHO

[Tiny]

Interesting Oeb. If this is their platform, they indeed don't appear to be fighting for things that really matter.

I'm all for LGBT's being treated like other people, but that part of their manifesto just sounds weird:

We make space for transgender brothers and sisters to participate and lead.
We are self-reflexive and do the work required to dismantle cisgender privilege and uplift Black trans folk, especially Black trans women who continue to be disproportionately impacted by trans-antagonistic violence.
We foster a queer‐affirming network. When we gather, we do so with the intention of freeing ourselves from the tight grip of heteronormative thinking, or rather, the belief that all in the world are heterosexual (unless s/he or they disclose otherwise).

[oeb11]

Tiny - check the link - it is copied from the BLM web site!
Please correct me if I am incorrect - .



They are a Marxist revolutionary and anti heterosexual and christianity organization.

Do not send money to those planning the downfall and enslavement of America for the small proportion of marxist blacks.

[dilbert firestorm]

BLM is homo-Marxist fucks.

[papadee]

Originally Posted by oeb11

Tiny - check the link - it is copied from the BLM web site!
Please correct me if I am incorrect - .
They are a Marxist revolutionary and anti heterosexual and christianity (1) organization.
Do not send money to those planning the downfall and enslavement of America for the small proportion of marxist blacks.

From your OP - The leaders of BLM are avowed Marxists dedicated to a marxist takeover of America. In addition - they are anti family, and anti Christian, and pro homosexuality and anti heterosexual commitment in marriage.



I hold all equal under the Law - and gay people. and other of the LGBTQ persuasion should be and are free to practice their sexuality between consenting adults. The marxist ideology and superiority ( teaching in schools and imposition of , and prohibition of heterosexuality I see coming) of homosexuality planned by 'Only" BLM is a nonstrter for me. I do not feel this marxist organization has anything of value to offer indealing with the issues of America - only rioting, looting, and violent revolution.

From Their Statement - 1. We are guided by the fact that all Black lives matter, regardless of actual or perceived sexual identity, gender identity, gender expression, economic status, ability, disability, religious beliefs or disbeliefs, immigration status, or location. Doesn't read as anti heterosexual or religion. Reads as inclusive to sexual expressions and religious beliefs.


Your other Marxist whinings weren't found in their statement, just your opinion.

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by papadee

From your OP - The leaders of BLM are avowed Marxists dedicated to a marxist takeover of America. In addition - they are anti family, and anti Christian, and pro homosexuality and anti heterosexual commitment in marriage.



I hold all equal under the Law - and gay people. and other of the LGBTQ persuasion should be and are free to practice their sexuality between consenting adults. The marxist ideology and superiority ( teaching in schools and imposition of , and prohibition of heterosexuality I see coming) of homosexuality planned by 'Only" BLM is a nonstrter for me. I do not feel this marxist organization has anything of value to offer indealing with the issues of America - only rioting, looting, and violent revolution.

From Their Statement - 1. We are guided by the fact that all Black lives matter, regardless of actual or perceived sexual identity, gender identity, gender expression, economic status, ability, disability, religious beliefs or disbeliefs, immigration status, or location. Doesn't read as anti heterosexual or religion. Reads as inclusive to sexual expressions and religious beliefs.


Your other Marxist whinings weren't found in their statement, just your opinion.

I'm not sure whether this, from their statement, is Marxist, but it is curious,

We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively care for one another, especially our children, to the degree that mothers, parents, and children are comfortable.


If they're saying replace families with collectives, and I'm not sure they are, then this is exactly the wrong prescription for making black lives matter. The disappearance of the nuclear family hugely disadvantages black children. One thing that can be done about it, that I mentioned in the OP, is criminal justice reform. Stop locking their Dads up and throwing away the key. I realize this is only part of the solution, and am not smart enough to know how America gets to where it needs to be on this.

[oeb11]

OBLM leaders are on record as Avowed Marxist revolutionaries.

They do not keep it a secret from the public.



Collectives are exactly what they want in a transformative vision of amerika.


Vote Biden - OBLM already controls him.

[LexusLover]

For Eccieuser, why BLM is misguided

The "Black Lives Matter" movement was established based on a LIE!

It's rather simple.

[Levianon17]

Originally Posted by Tiny

We're hijacking gnadfly's thread so I'm starting a new one.





If "right wing" means I think with my brain and not my heart, that's very true.

I wasn't clear. Several years ago I looked at the number of blacks and non-blacks killed by police. Also at the number of police killed by blacks versus other races. And finally the number of people killed by police in other countries.

Based on that, police in the USA are indeed too quick to pull the trigger. But the % of police killed by blacks versus other races wasn't out of line with the % of blacks (versus other races) killed by police. I don't think there's evidence for bias based on the numbers. I just think the killings of whites doesn't make the news. Furthermore, this isn't a huge problem. About 200 blacks are killed by the police annually, compared to 800 nonblacks.

However, yes, black lives do matter. And the BLM is totally unfocused on what does matter. What does matter? Well, what I wrote about above, and the numbers back me up:

1. Criminal justice system - Black men get longer sentences, have less chance of parole and a greater chance of getting nabbed for probation violations, and IMHO are more likely to be convicted for committing a crime than non-blacks. Thirty-three percent of black males have been convicted of felonies. Try getting a good job with a felony on your record.

2. Education system - Blacks on average have lower SAT scores and lower high school graduation rates. This shows up in lower incomes and lower quality of life.

3. Health - Life expectancy for blacks is 75 years versus 78.6 years for whites, 81.9 years for Latinos and 86.3 years for Asian Americans.

"1", "2" and "3" above are a travesty. There are steps that politicians can and should have taken to address these, far beyond what they've done so far.

If BLM were conducting peaceful protests about these issues, it would make a lot of sense. I've got a particular problem with what's happened because it conflicts with a couple of issues I'm passionate about, the destruction of capital and the spread of Covid. Government destroys capital through extortionate taxation and over-regulation. The violent BLM protesters do it through outright destruction of property, plant and equipment. They've destroyed businesses and jobs. And, paraphrasing Michelle Obama, your side had taken the high road on Covid. More people on the left wear masks and social distance. You don't have people on your side arguing that it's every American's god given right to sit shoulder to shoulder indoors without masks in church or at a sporting event. The protesters threw this out the window when they came together in large numbers, many without masks.

The onus to correct these problems, whether it's how police treat blacks when they arrest them or items "1", "2" and "3" above, probably falls harder on Democratic politicians than Republicans. At least when it comes to killings by police and education in large cities, it's the Democrats who have control.

I'll focus a little on number one. There is an argument out there that there is a dis apportioned number Blacks in Prisons than Whites. Some may say Blacks commit more crime. If that's true not much more. What is true, is Blacks get caught much easier. They commit crime within short distance from their own neighborhoods. Police have little trouble clearing cases. So it's not so much a race factor but maybe more so stupidity. The BLM movement is a joke Blacks hate Blacks more than whites do. If Blacks would stop violating each other on a grand scale maybe they would have a better quality of life. From what I've seen in recent years displayed by the Black Community it's appalling to me how these people treat each other then they have the unmitigated gall to protest. If the Black community would learn to preserve their community rather than to destroyed it they might get the support they seek. Until then they're on their own.

[eccieuser9500]

The lie that slaves were equal? Or slaves lives mattered? Or the man who wrote equality into our constitution believed it?

Or, what lie? Were slaves human? Would that I could ask Tommy J these questions. Would he be offended that I would ask?

[oeb11]

of course Blacks are discriminated against by Whitey in America

President Obama said so - so it Be a FACT!!


Thank U - 9500!

[HedonistForever]

Originally Posted by Tiny

I'm not sure whether this, from their statement, is Marxist, but it is curious,

We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively care for one another, especially our children, to the degree that mothers, parents, and children are comfortable.


If they're saying replace families with collectives, and I'm not sure they are, then this is exactly the wrong prescription for making black lives matter. The disappearance of the nuclear family hugely disadvantages black children. One thing that can be done about it, that I mentioned in the OP, is criminal justice reform. Stop locking their Dads up and throwing away the key. I realize this is only part of the solution, and am not smart enough to know how America gets to where it needs to be on this.

And they will not address this in any conversation because it would be admitting that "they" play the biggest part of this "problem".



You are right about locking up to many black fathers for non violent crimes but we can't simply turn our backs on the fact that the violent crimes committed by Blacks are disproportional to their numbers. Would stopping incarceration solve the problem or make it worse? We are already hearing that disbanding to plain cloths cops in New York is like turning the light green. If all you have to look out form is the uniformed police, criminals will commit more crimes DUH!


No bond, trying to give the Blacks and Whites a better shake is just causing crime rates to rise. Rather than see it as getting a break, many are seeing it as a weakness, a green light to keep doing what you are doing if there aren't going to be consequences.


It's one thing to have a heart and try to make things better for minority communities but they play a bigger role in finding a solution than Whites do IMHO although Whites can do better but then when they try to do better they get taken advantage of. Yeah, I don't have the solutions either.

[eccieuser9500]

[oeb11]

It also takes a village to raise the village idiot
Thank U - 9500.


What would BLM opinion on your white dead guys memes be " racist or No.

obviousLee - the answer is clear.