Many male 'mongers are hypocrites. Should we feel guilty for it?

[Toyz]

Originally Posted by RetiredNinja

You need to watch more movies sir.

[tron]

Why do people have to make this more complicated than it really is?

I keep it simple: Providers provide a service I want, and I have something they want ($). That's all this should be.

If a provider sees you a 2nd time, then don't worry about it. If they won't, then you might want to think about why. Being nice and having good hygiene is probably better than being an attractive arrogant asshole that needs a shower.

[Phil McCrotch]

Originally Posted by Blue_eyed_shy_guy

In another thread here in Austin Coed, I'd made a post ( http://www.eccie.net/showpost.php?p=...&postcount=121 ) that apparently touched a raw nerve.

The most controversial comment in that post was my comment about 'mongers bashing providers who are too old or too heavy by standards that they themselves don't meet.

That's definitely a raw nerve to touch, because there's a great deal of truth to it: Many 'mongers in the Hobby, including myself, are not exactly attractive & in shape. Some of us are, frankly, obese & ugly.

Should a man with a BMI in the 30s or more feel guilty if he's only physically attracted to slender and/or petite women?

Should he see it as a defect in himself?

I frequently *do* feel guilty, and think that it *is* a defect in myself, but it's also not something I believe I can 'train' myself out of.

Having 'hypocritical attractions' isn't my objection, though. My objection (and one I've posted on more than once) is when male 'mongers who've admitted their own physical flaws frequently attack and degrade providers for their physical flaws.

Here's the thing:

In the Hobby, we pay women more attractive than ourselves to cross the gap between what they're attracted to (attractive, well-dressed HWP or athletic men) and ourselves (often at least decent financial status, sometimes well-dressed, but not exactly 10s in the looks dept.) for the purpose of making us feel attractive & desirable. (Oh, and multiple orgasms in session would be nice too, ma'am. )

Crossing that gap and acting like we are genuinely attractive & sexy to them isn't easy, but treating her with kindness, affection, attention to her as a person, and not emphasizing physical flaws she knows she has without needing male reminders in CoEd might make it easier.

I always thought of that as part of the unwritten social contract of the Hobby: If you want her to overlook your physical flaws and see you for your good traits, see her for hers in return.

Am I wrong to think that?

I did not read the thread but I want to respond, as shallow as I usually am going to be famous for.

I'm not obese or ugly (not sure what ugly means anyway, that's just an emotion right) but I do have my share of insecureitys'.

Anyway, my crazy comment is, one of the best porn movies I've ever watched was an average sized girl putting it on a big guy, she fucked him with the knowledge of how its done.

I remember that he was BIG, but she fucked him good, better than most guys get I guarantee it.

[BiancaBonVivant]

Originally Posted by Blue_eyed_shy_guy

Earlier you'd mentioned that you felt that the Hobby was still within male patriarchal rules..

If you had a chance to "rewrite the rules", what would the new rules of the game entail?

If I could, I'd eliminate lifelong, hetero, reproductive monogamy as the Gold Standard for human sexual behavior. Without going into too much detail, I think monogamy borders on abuse (if it doesn't jump right in) much of the time. There's something really creepy about telling other people what to do or not do with their own bodies, and that's probably the root of my frustration with patriarchal systems.

[astronut]

Originally Posted by BiancaBonVivant

If I could, I'd eliminate lifelong, hetero, reproductive monogamy as the Gold Standard for human sexual behavior. Without going into too much detail, I think monogamy borders on abuse (if it doesn't jump right in) much of the time. There's something really creepy about telling other people what to do or not do with their own bodies, and that's probably the root of my frustration with patriarchal systems.

Bingo! You hit the nail on the head with that comment.

For some people, in some situations, lifelong monogamy works. And it will always be an option for them. But can these people please shut up and stop making laws that try to enforce their ideals on the rest of us? Are they just jealous of us and trying to punish us for enjoying life in a way that they can't?

I will take it further, though, and say that while the monogamous system was invented by the historical patriarchy, it is just as easily abused by women now. There is something undeniably creepy about the way some women obsessively monitor their husbands'/boyfriends' behavior and endlessly try to control them. They are the female equivalent of the wife-beater. Since physical coercion usually doesn't work for them, they resort to emotional abuse.

Not saying I don't agree with your comments about our patriarchal society, though. I'm just saying that I don't think that substituting a matriarchy would really be any better. Power is power, and both men and women will abuse it when given the chance.

[Toyz]

If a woman controls access to the pussy...
And society condemns men for seeking alternative pussy...
This presents a "monopoly" of sorts.

THIS is what many women (non hobby) manipulate for a range of benefits by controlling "their" mate.

Patriarch or matriarch...it depends on your relative viewpoint.

I believe women who are against legal prostitution are as much concerned about losing CONTROL of men as they are prostitution being a societal danger.

[BiancaBonVivant]

Originally Posted by astronut

Not saying I don't agree with your comments about our patriarchal society, though. I'm just saying that I don't think that substituting a matriarchy would really be any better. Power is power, and both men and women will abuse it when given the chance.

Never did I suggest or imply that matriarchy was the proper alternative (also, my use of the P-word was only after someone else used it explicitly), but I want to talk about this for one second.

First, we have no large-scale examples of matriarchy to look to for advice or avoidance, so the only fair thing to say is that we have no idea how matriarchy would play out on the world stage, today in 2016 (I think you can point to a few small matriarchal societies, but they are usually extinct or exist only in secluded pockets of the Amazon).

Second, I don't think matriarchy (as people use the word, and "matriarch" itself seems like only a word a patriarchist could invent) could exist unless as a specific reaction to patriarchy.

Third, as a reactionary movement, matriarchy would only gain a foothold by using the tools of patriarchy (guns, war, etc.), so I don't believe matriarchy *would* exist but for the preexistence of patriarchially-derived weaponry.

Fourth, men are victims under patriarchy as well, and I want you all to know that I know this.

Fifth, being male does not make you an automatic supporter of patriarchy, nor do I assume that any of you do support it, because the truth is that the men who have paid me money have also paid me the most respect.

[Wakeup]

Fat people should only fuck other fat people...hypocrisy solved...

[BigCockBrock]

So to flip the perspectives. Good looking hobbyers don't get a discount. How do providers feel when they get to the door and it's a stud instead of a obese nerdy guy.

[Cooper Barrett]

I feel that Wake up has a point. But: It's not even like that in real life but but there is such a thing as "who's money is it anyway."
There are a few guys who like fat women and women who like fat men but this hobby is a business for the ladies and a large expense for the guys.
I am used to paying what a McD's employee grosses in an a week so that I don't have to fuck fat women, and now that I don't fit in the HWP guidelines I am either a hypocrite or doomed to fuck 60lbs overweight providers because a chart said so? If' I ever weighed what the charts said I should weigh: I would look like I was under nourished as I was always 25-30lbs above that due to muscle mass.



Guys here are paying get to pick what they want to fuck,

Personally anything over 150lbs, (175 if in very athletic condition) is not going to pass the "acid" test for me to be physically attracted, never has, hopefully never will. Give me the tall strong ones who play tennis, bike, and run in RL But when I hobby I like the tall thin ones or the petite non spinners with enough meat to not show every rib bone.

I live in an area where an hour, with any decent looking provider, costs $350 and up, where I see some nice talent in Austin for sometimes $199- $150 less with plenty of fresh goods arriving every month. If I am 40lbs plus over weight, do you really expect me to want to rent some pussy that has 40lbs of fat that I have to look at, touch, and feel? That's not why I spend my hard earned cash
.
I pay to feel taunt legs and tight butts, flat stomachs and tits that look and feel like they are years away from considered for an overhaul. Blindfolds, disinfectant, and insulated gloves are not what this old man wants to include in a sexual romp, especially when I am paying the big bucks.

Am I a hypocrite because I have gained some weight in my latter years but still have the same tastes in women I always had? I have desk job, I work stupid hours, and when I want to get laid just like when buying a car, I get to choose what I want and I demand both appearance, performance, and attitude to be first rate.

If I were to start selling my cock on the Inter-Web then I guess I will have to understand that I am selling, not buying, I am the purveyor of goods and I don't always get to pick everything about my buyers and I will have to accept that a few gals are not going to want to fuck me due to my appearance and I few that I'm not going to want to fuck due to theirs! But am I going to walk out of an appointment without due cause because she's fat? Hell no!!!
Pay me $400 an hour... I can afford to hire a counselor to help me get over the fact I had to see, touch, and fuck it but I'll be dammed if I am going to have to kill the whatever it is growing between the folds of flab before getting in bed with it. Even us old, overwight, bald guys draw the line somewhere, even for money!!!

So, am I a Hypocrite or what???

Somebody bought those Pinto's, Vega's, and Gremlin's, that were such sorry POS's that they were but I don't have to be one of them! IROC + Z28 Camaro's rule!
"Buy what everyone else wants and you will never be stuck with a POS!" Car or pussy!!!

[Austin Ellen]

Actually that happens more than people would think..seriously. However, as a beautiful lady said earlier...if the guy has a sense of humor and can make me laugh....my pussy gets really wet and I don't care if he's a stud or not.

[Austin Ellen]

Opps, I was replying to BigCockBrock.

[Phil McCrotch]

Originally Posted by Cooper Barrett

I feel that Wake up has a point.!!

Nope, he had a sentence, no point attached.

[rocker]

Originally Posted by Cooper Barrett

I feel that Wake up has a point. But: It's not even like that in real life but but there is such a thing as "who's money is it anyway."
There are a few guys who like fat women and women who like fat men but this hobby is a business for the ladies and a large expense for the guys.
I am used to paying what a McD's employee grosses in an a week so that I don't have to fuck fat women, and now that I don't fit in the HWP guidelines I am either a hypocrite or doomed to fuck 60lbs overweight providers because a chart said so? If' I ever weighed what the charts said I should weigh: I would look like I was under nourished as I was always 25-30lbs above that due to muscle mass.



Guys here are paying get to pick what they want to fuck,

Personally anything over 150lbs, (175 if in very athletic condition) is not going to pass the "acid" test for me to be physically attracted, never has, hopefully never will. Give me the tall strong ones who play tennis, bike, and run in RL But when I hobby I like the tall thin ones or the petite non spinners with enough meat to not show every rib bone.

I live in an area where an hour, with any decent looking provider, costs $350 and up, where I see some nice talent in Austin for sometimes $199- $150 less with plenty of fresh goods arriving every month. If I am 40lbs plus over weight, do you really expect me to want to rent some pussy that has 40lbs of fat that I have to look at, touch, and feel? That's not why I spend my hard earned cash
.
I pay to feel taunt legs and tight butts, flat stomachs and tits that look and feel like they are years away from considered for an overhaul. Blindfolds, disinfectant, and insulated gloves are not what this old man wants to include in a sexual romp, especially when I am paying the big bucks.

Am I a hypocrite because I have gained some weight in my latter years but still have the same tastes in women I always had? I have desk job, I work stupid hours, and when I want to get laid just like when buying a car, I get to choose what I want and I demand both appearance, performance, and attitude to be first rate.

If I were to start selling my cock on the Inter-Web then I guess I will have to understand that I am selling, not buying, I am the purveyor of goods and I don't always get to pick everything about my buyers and I will have to accept that a few gals are not going to want to fuck me due to my appearance and I few that I'm not going to want to fuck due to theirs! But am I going to walk out of an appointment without due cause because she's fat? Hell no!!!
Pay me $400 an hour... I can afford to hire a counselor to help me get over the fact I had to see, touch, and fuck it but I'll be dammed if I am going to have to kill the whatever it is growing between the folds of flab before getting in bed with it. Even us old, overwight, bald guys draw the line somewhere, even for money!!!

So, am I a Hypocrite or what???

Somebody bought those Pinto's, Vega's, and Gremlin's, that were such sorry POS's that they were but I don't have to be one of them! IROC + Z28 Camaro's rule!
"Buy what everyone else wants and you will never be stuck with a POS!" Car or pussy!!!

Very well said! Why buy a Pinto when you can afford a Mercedes!


Rocker

[Toyz]

Originally Posted by rocker

Very well said! Why buy a Pinto when you can afford a Mercedes!


Rocker

You hear that Cooper? A Benz...