Let us not forget Pearl Harbor

[I B Hankering]

Originally Posted by LexusLover

My "premise"?

What is "your premise" mean when you post the above quote:



It "looks" like your posts do exactly what I posted, and that is ...

"debunk ... the premise that the lack of U.S. military strength and resolve had nothing to do with the Germans and Japanese progressing in their joint effort to control the World"...

That is what I posted!

PERHAPS you are not familiar with the meaning of "debunk" ...

"expose the falseness or hollowness of (a myth, idea, or belief)."

Okay. We agree.

[BigLouie]

Originally Posted by TheDaliLama

At the age of 22 my Dad piloted a B-24 Liberator and led 9 other men into batttle over Nazi Germany. He returned home without a scratch.

Yea well he was different from the rest. Want he the guy that Indiana Jones wad based on

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by BigLouie

Want he the guy that Indiana Jones wad based on

If you meant to post:

"Was he the guy that Indiana Jones was based on."

Probably not:

Because it appears DL's was "over Nazis Germany" ...

...................and he probably didn't use a whip to kill Germans.

Those comic books can cook your brain, BL.

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by I B Hankering

Okay. We agree.

Thank you for acknowledging our mutual understanding.

(I really had to go back and reread what I had posted to see if I "mistyped.")

[Jackie S]

Maybe I should explain myself a little better concerning what I said in my post #23.

For those of us who had Parents in WW-2, you can remember the absolute hatred many of them had for the Japanese. Most of it was because of Pearl Harbor.

The US Government used this hatred in order to carry out what can be best described as "Total War". The idea behind this concept I'd you just don't kill the soldiers in the field, you kill the man that makes the bullets he shoots, you kill the farmer that grows the food he eats, the person that drives the truck that delivers the food, the person that mined the lead in the bullet, the person that made his cloths, the person that delivers his mail, and so on.

It is not pretty. When the Army Air Corps decided to start a bombing aimed at total destruction, who ever below got killed. And we used everything, from high impact bombs to fiery incenterery bombs that literally burned cities to the ground.

In the Pacific Theater, it took Curtis Lemay to finally convince the other commanders that Japan's major cities were made of wood, and they would burn very nicely.

We had no rules of engagement. Anyone who was in the way of Total Victory was subject to die. Period.

That is why I say that even though you will not read it in high school history books, our policy was, to kill every last German and Japanese on the Planet if that is what it took to achieve total Victory.

[Yssup Rider]

Not that I doubt it, Jackie. In fact I'm sure you're right. But I'd like to read more about it. Where would one find more information?

[I B Hankering]

Originally Posted by Jackie S

Maybe I should explain myself a little better concerning what I said in my post #23.

For those of us who had Parents in WW-2, you can remember the absolute hatred many of them had for the Japanese. Most of it was because of Pearl Harbor.

The US Government used this hatred in order to carry out what can be best described as "Total War". The idea behind this concept I'd you just don't kill the soldiers in the field, you kill the man that makes the bullets he shoots, you kill the farmer that grows the food he eats, the person that drives the truck that delivers the food, the person that mined the lead in the bullet, the person that made his cloths, the person that delivers his mail, and so on.

It is not pretty. When the Army Air Corps decided to start a bombing aimed at total destruction, who ever below got killed. And we used everything, from high impact bombs to fiery incenterery bombs that literally burned cities to the ground.

In the Pacific Theater, it took Curtis Lemay to finally convince the other commanders that Japan's major cities were made of wood, and they would burn very nicely.

We had no rules of engagement. Anyone who was in the way of Total Victory was subject to die. Period.

That is why I say that even though you will not read it in high school history books, our policy was, to kill every last German and Japanese on the Planet if that is what it took to achieve total Victory.

In Eugene Sledge's memoir, With the Old Breed: At Peleliu and Okinawa, Sledge describes the animus the Marines had for the Japanese because of the way the Japanese tortured and abused U.S. POWs. As a rule, the Marines didn't take prisoners in the Pacific War. Of note, U.S. authorities hid many of Japan's atrocities in order to facilitate building post-war relations with Japan against the Soviet Union.

Originally Posted by Yssup Rider

Not that I doubt it, Jackie. In fact I'm sure you're right. But I'd like to read more about it. Where would one find more information?

Miller, Donald L. Masters Of The Air: America’s Bomber Boys Who Fought the Air War Against Nazi Germany. New York: Simon & Schuster, 2007

[Jackie S]

Originally Posted by Yssup Rider

Not that I doubt it, Jackie. In fact I'm sure you're right. But I'd like to read more about it. Where would one find more information?

?.
I think you are being facetious, but even though this is a Wiki link, it's a start.

[Yssup Rider]

Actually I'm dead serious. My father served in the Pacific and he was reluctant to talk about the subject to which you referred.

Thanks in advance.

[Jackie S]

Originally Posted by Jackie S

?.
I think you are being facetious, but even though this is a Wiki link, it's a start.

http://ww2db.com/person_bio.php?person_id=509

[bigcockpussylicker]

I dont understand

when bad things happen to a person, people say forget it, move forward


so why do I want to remember 9.11/pearl harbor, d-day, when mlk got shot, when liconlon got shot, when jfk got shot, when bush vomited all over

[bigcockpussylicker]

Originally Posted by Yssup Rider

Actually I'm dead serious. My father served in the Pacific and he was reluctant to talk about the subject to which you referred.

Thanks in advance.

yeah war sucks
sorry your dad got drafted and saw some shitty stuff
that's war for you,

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by Yssup Rider

My father served in the Pacific and he was reluctant to talk about the subject to which you referred.

YR: It is true. Not universally so, but true. The Press was limited then.

My Dad as well. USMC 1939-1945. Hardly ever discussed it, although he shared his Division Book with me, and on several occasions at times with friends of his while visiting there were brief discussions. I never saw or heard any "hatred" there were pictures that revealed what appeared to be "retribution" .... and would be considered "atrocities" by many standards, if not most, today.

Until he died one did not wake him by touching him (it was unhealthy), but he was respectful, courteous, carrying of all people around him, and respected for his people skills and ability to supervise while treating all people with respect, whether others thought they deserved it or not. ......after he awoke.

I recall meeting a friend of his, "mousey" little guy, almost "sweet" in demeanor (not "gay" as far as I know), but wimpish. My Dad encouraged him to show me his friend's medals. He brought down out of the attic what looked like a wooden silverware box about 8 inches thick with trays inside. Completely full of medals he was awarded. I had never heard either one of them discuss his friends activities.

It hasn't been until the early 1990's that people started wearing their service on their sleeves. It just wasn't done, for whatever reason. Through the early 70's and actually for 20 years ... there was a strong anti-military sentiment in this country ... that put a chilling effect on conversation about it. Some people still don't talk about it, and won't. I've seen a lot more bumper stickers, caps, jackets, and patches in the last 20 years, and clearly more uniforms in the airports.

This is not a justification: But the Japanese treatment of civilians, particularly in China, made the Germans look like kindergarten attendees. Little is published and discussed about the Japanese "camps" in China, their experiments, and atrocities in those camps. Estimates of 50 to 100 million Chinese died. Occasionally one sees reports of requests for reparations.

By the time U.S. (Allied) troops had moved back into the Pacific Islands most of the young women had been removed and transported back to the Japanese mainland (or "rear bases") for entertainment and "maid" service.

There were similar "atrocities" by U.S. servicemembers in the S.E. Asia "war"... they were investigated and prosecuted..... although perhaps not as prevalent, because of the increased press coverage and the introduction of war on television. There have also been "atrocities" by U.S. servicemembers reported and prosecuted in the recent military activities. Less so it seems. They may have more to do with the voluntary military service, and improved screening, as well as increased media scrutiny.

YR ... your father's reluctance may be justified and his effort to forget.

[JD Barleycorn]

I have read a book for a former Japanese Lt. who reported that they had wiped out a filipino village. The village just ceased to exist one day. The only surviviors were a couple of people that the Lt. had told to run away for no apparent reason. Years later they found the local well full of skeletons. That was where the village had went one day. Killed and thrown down the well.

Sledge was right. It was a war of extermination for a lot of reasons. We had heard about China and the "rape" of Nanking. We knew about the Bataan Death March. We knew that the Japanese would not surrender. It was part necessity, part racism, and part revenge.

[Jackie S]

Originally Posted by LexusLover

YR: It is true. Not universally so, but true. The Press was limited then.

My Dad as well. USMC 1939-1945. Hardly ever discussed it, although he shared his Division Book with me, and on several occasions at times with friends of his while visiting there were brief discussions. I never saw or heard any "hatred" there were pictures that revealed what appeared to be "retribution" .... and would be considered "atrocities" by many standards, if not most, today.

Until he died one did not wake him by touching him (it was unhealthy), but he was respectful, courteous, carrying of all people around him, and respected for his people skills and ability to supervise while treating all people with respect, whether others thought they deserved it or not. ......after he awoke.

I recall meeting a friend of his, "mousey" little guy, almost "sweet" in demeanor (not "gay" as far as I know), but wimpish. My Dad encouraged him to show me his friend's medals. He brought down out of the attic what looked like a wooden silverware box about 8 inches thick with trays inside. Completely full of medals he was awarded. I had never heard either one of them discuss his friends activities.

It hasn't been until the early 1990's that people started wearing their service on their sleeves. It just wasn't done, for whatever reason. Through the early 70's and actually for 20 years ... there was a strong anti-military sentiment in this country ... that put a chilling effect on conversation about it. Some people still don't talk about it, and won't. I've seen a lot more bumper stickers, caps, jackets, and patches in the last 20 years, and clearly more uniforms in the airports.

This is not a justification: But the Japanese treatment of civilians, particularly in China, made the Germans look like kindergarten attendees. Little is published and discussed about the Japanese "camps" in China, their experiments, and atrocities in those camps. Estimates of 50 to 100 million Chinese died. Occasionally one sees reports of requests for reparations.

By the time U.S. (Allied) troops had moved back into the Pacific Islands most of the young women had been removed and transported back to the Japanese mainland (or "rear bases") for entertainment and "maid" service.

There were similar "atrocities" by U.S. servicemembers in the S.E. Asia "war"... they were investigated and prosecuted..... although perhaps not as prevalent, because of the increased press coverage and the introduction of war on television. There have also been "atrocities" by U.S. servicemembers reported and prosecuted in the recent military activities. Less so it seems. They may have more to do with the voluntary military service, and improved screening, as well as increased media scrutiny.

YR ... your father's reluctance may be justified and his effort to forget.

Several years ago, my Daughter bought me a really nice ball cap with scrambled eggs on the bill, and "Vietnam Veteran" written on the front.

I put it away, I am glad that she is proud of me.

But I have never worn it in public.