Bill Cosby and rape culture

[Whispers]

Originally Posted by chelseabean

come one, Whispers, ,surely you know, for most of these women the time ore criminal and civil cases are long past.

Criminal perhaps in some of their cases but definitely not civil. Keep in mind that many cases are brought and there is never the intention to go to a trial. Settlement for less than the cost to defend is often the only goal.

These accusations alone... unproven.... have already resulted in the loss of large venue shows and a prospective television series and who knows how many other projects all of which involved other people who now have lost revenue as well.

There is certainly leverage there to look for a payoff whether guilty or not.

[chelseabean]

Originally Posted by Centaur

A discussion entails two-way communication, not one-way communication and snarks from an OP who refuses to express her own opinion of the topic in between mocking the people attempting to answer her original query. When you want to have a conversation, let me know.

Wow. you guys are quick. I thoght I was the only one who was up. BUT, seeing that i am not. I will address all of of your concerns. until like 1 or so, because I am just one woman, and I get tired.

[chelseabean]

Originally Posted by Whispers

ANY one going on stage and performing has plenty of opportunities for sex with multiple young ladies attracted not to the man but to his popularity. At any age.

I was backstage and then to an after party after a Rodney Dangerfield performance and there were 15-20 under 25yo girls partying and willing to do whatever. He was in his 70s

Rape is not often about sex. It is about power.

Do rich, famous and powerful men commit rape? Sure. It's possible. Stories we hear about usually consist of some woman that the man pursued and was refused by being forced into something as a result of her denying him.

These stories about Cosby stretch over decades and all start to come out one after another in a span of a few weeks? The large number of girls and idea that they all would remain silent for so long just does not sit well in my mind in regards to credibility.

Anyone want to guess how many of the "accusers" have "civil suit" lawyers Aalready?

So what whispers you were back stage at a Rodney Dangerfield concert sometime during the early nineteen-ninties. A nd now now feel like a competent witness for all women during that time period? You aren't.

[Centaur]

Originally Posted by chelseabean

Wow. you guys are quick. I thoght I was the only one who was up. BUT, seeing that i am not. I will address all of of your concerns. until like 1 or so, because I am just one woman, and I get tired.

I am sorry I was snide. This can be a justifiably heated topic and strain civility. I see you're weighing in with your own opinion as I asked, so thank you. I do understand your point that the number women coming forward appears damning. I still think it merits looking at eaxctly what the accusations are and the who, what, when and where of what's being alleged in each case. Aside from the question of whether or not Cosby is a rapist, there's the questions of what exactly his did or didn't do to each woman. Details matter a lot, IMHO.

I am indeed quite serious and I am saying something. If I'm doing a poor job of communicating on my end, I will attempt to clarify my meaning.

I too must hit the sack and rest up for the workday tomorrow. I'll try to pick this up again in the morning or after work tomorrow.

[Whispers]

Originally Posted by chelseabean

Wow. you guys are quick. I thought I was the only one who was up. BUT, seeing that i am not. I will address all of of your concerns. until like 1 or so, because I am just one woman, and I get tired.

Concerns? No concerns here. Just some input on a topic of interest.

I think the man was a brilliant comedian. I met him him once in the late 80s. Even then though and since most of his material was rehashed from older routines to make relevant to new generations.

His appeal and ability to remain relevant as a comedian as others took stand-up in a variety of directions over the years was commendable. He had to deal with the murder of his son in a public arena and maintained his values in remaining opposed to the death penalty through that personal experience.

Personally, I feel that his 55+ years in the public light, displaying the values he did, certainly justifies his being shown the benefit of the doubt without any substantial evidence to suggest otherwise.

[Toyz]

Some of the accounts are hilarious...here are a couple of my favorites...

“He had gone from helping me to groping me, kissing me, touching me and handling me,” Green said. After she confronted him, Cosby left two $100 bills on her coffee table and left the apartment.

Sure can't accuse him of not leaving a donation.

68 year old former actress said the following...now, how does a guy force his penis into your mouth without you having some involvement in the act? And how did her face come in line with his Penis? Come on...

Cosby “suddenly approached me and took out his penis, which was now in the line of my face and pressed up against it. He took his hands and put them on the back of my head and forced his penis in my mouth, saying, ‘Have a taste of this. It will do you good in so many ways.’”

One talks about the THIRD time it happened. Damn girl, you went back TWICE after the first two rapes and were surprised it happened 3 times?

Another talks about "after we broke up"...Oh really? After you lost your celebrity connection you mean?

I like this one too...and yes its a verbatim quote from a "victim"

“With his hand on top of mine, he had me massage his penis,” she said. “He masturbated with my hand. I wasn’t pulling back. I was in shock.”

Yah lots of guys laying in bed hypnotize girls into getting in bed with them...and then...when they least expect it...grabs their hand and has them jack him off. Because we all know you will be in such shock that you'll just keep going until we cum.

This girl (47 years young) says she had a 4 year relationship with Cosby...but made this claim...

“One time, I remember just before I passed out, I remember him kissing and touching me and I remember the taste of his cigar on his breath, and I didn’t like it. I remember another time when I woke up in my bed the next day and he was leaving, he mentioned you should probably lose a little weight. I thought that odd, how would he know that? I always thought it was odd that after I had this drink I would end up in my bed the next morning and I wouldn’t remember anything.”

Sounds legit huh?

Or are a bunch of former hoggars, girlfriends, women trying to use his celebrity to further their careers back in the day NOW trying to get a book deal, some semi celebrity time, a few talk show gigs because they see the clock ticking down?

Again, probably a bit of truth to an allegation or two...but if you look closely you'll see he has NEVER been brought up on charges but settled with ONE woman?

The public is quick to assign guilt...but if you look closely at this, its not so cut and dried.

Wonder if Claire Huxtable did Anal? She looks like she would...

[Whispers]

Originally Posted by chelseabean

So what whispers you were back stage at a Rodney Dangerfield concert sometime during the early nineteen-ninties. A nd now now feel like a competent witness for all women during that time period? You aren't.

LOL.....

Really?

You want to spin something like that? In the long run you will look rather foolish darlin....

I am neither presenting myself as a witness, nor am I judging anyone.

From experience I am saying that as a performer of his stature there would NEVER have been a shortage of women for him to simply fuck. That would have WANTED to fuck him.

So I would not think it was about sex with any of these women.

Power and Control are common issues in rape cases..... Where I have read about or watched stories of high profile rape cases there usually existed some desire on the part of the male that was rejected by the female. Some sense of entitlement on the male's part for playing some role in the female's life or career. When denied the control issues took him over and the woman was violated.

Not a single one of these stories suggests such a motivation may have existed.

These ladies are simply repeating a story already made public that they were drugged and raped or thought they MIGHT have been raped but they remember nothing really.

I'm sorry..... On the surface it does not make any sense......

On the surface it does make sense that there are opportunists that might thing that since their life crossed his at some point and these allegations exist they might jump on the band wagon.

None of these ladies are in anyway concerned with my opinion. I'm simply stating it. I have not questioned you, your beliefs or any others.

Simply stating why in this case I will reserve judgement and for now, give 55+ years of decent behavior in the public eye the benefit of the doubt that the law provides.

That and the fact that on any given day over the last 50+ years he could have simply walked out of a club with some chick that would have done anything he wanted for nothing more than the bragging rights of having fucked the great Bill Cosby.... or considering the many characters Fat Albert..

The whole idea of secretly drugging and having his way with dozens of women over the years, NONE of which were speaking up until recently, just does not seem feasible..

[Jessie Austin]

Wasn't he accused decades ago by another group of women? I remember when his illegitimate daughter came forward. He's not new to this.

[Whispers]

Originally Posted by Jessie Austin

Wasn't he accused decades ago by another group of women? I remember when his illegitimate daughter came forward. He's not new to this.

How does a man having an affair and/or fathering a child with a willing partner outside of a marriage relate in any way to rape charges?

[mrhamm]

Originally Posted by Toyz

I think based on the tenor of the discussions, there might be some level of guilt.

I am pretty sure some rape, is still rape. Just like a lil pudding, is still pudding!

[Toyz]

Originally Posted by mrhamm

I am pretty sure some rape, is still rape. Just like a lil pudding, is still pudding!

Yet there are still no indictments...still no evidence...still no proof. There is one case of hush money being paid for an admitted NON rape victim...

Then there are the hilarious allegations I outlined earlier.

All I am saying is its a witch hunt with questionable motives based on what HAS been said and what HAS been documented.

Many sound like jilted girlfriends trying to bury a hatchet...nothing more.

And I have some flan in the fridge...its a close to pudding as there is in the house, but am having some now

[NikkiWhite]

Jessie is right Google it these def arent the first allegations. Not saying that means anything. It will all come out when the evidence of him getting his pudding pop sucked on Kodak film comes to light.

[Whispers]

Originally Posted by NikkiWhite

Jessie is right Google it these def arent the first allegations. Not saying that means anything. It will all come out when the evidence of him getting his pudding pop sucked on Kodak film comes to light.

He was a spokesperson for Kodak! We should expect and Fat Albert Porn to be on Kodak Paper!

[NikkiWhite]

Originally Posted by Whispers

He was a spokesperson for Kodak! We should expect and Fat Albert Porn to be on Kodak Paper!

Whispers says the darndest things

[RovingGeek]

I'm not saying he did or didn't do it, I've not read enough of the statements to know. I'm also not saying the women are being truthful or not....but let's examine the situation a little more closely from a macro/meta perspective.

1. Allegations like this have surfaced in the past against him many times. They seemed to disappear so they weren't true or some people were paid off.

2. The past several years he has been publically denouncing the AA community for letting families deteriorate. He has advocated for putting families back together, being responsible for their own actions etc. etc. In other statements he has spoken to the "victim" mentality in the AA community and how that needs to end as well.
So in short what he's saying runs against the grain of many current AA leaders (Sharpton, Jackson, NAACP etc.). Not making a judgment on the content of his statements, merely showing how he might be pissing some very powerful people off, and those people might be retaliating by using prior allegations and re-hashing them.

To me this smacks of the Kobe Bryant situation many years back, where someone claimed he raped her, then her story changed several times under scrutiny.

However given the number of women coming forward, I'm more inclined to believe these women are telling the truth and he's not doing himself any favors by clamming up. On the other side of this coin, if these women were raped, was it documented in any way?

Yes I know, being the victim of rape is a difficult thing and traumatic in and of itself, especially in Hollywood, but with this many women so closely spaced and in the time periods stated, there was enough female advocacy in that day and age that I must conclude the police would have been involved somewhere if these are legitimate claims. Based on my reading of the CA laws in this matter, there is a base 6 year period for the statute of limitations on rape, there is an additional "3 -year SOL" if you've recently "discovered" you were raped. There appears to be no SOL for a civil trial that I can find. So if these women were indeed raped, didn't realize until recently they had 3 years to file a criminal case, and they could be filing civil cases right now.

Since I've not seen any notice about civil cases against him, I can only assume this is a smear campaign, otherwise we'd see an army of lawyers for these women with California court case numbers (unless my interpretation of the laws aren't up-to-the minute accurate and they can't file).

If there are civil cases (I'm a terrible searcher), then there might be something to this.