How many p411 okays is too many?

[Chica Chaser]

Not questioning your methods Val, just trying to understand them. Of course, health safety is paramount.

But more importantly,I'm curious about the thinking of other ladies here on the "serial hobbyist is tainted" train of thought. I'll throw a little more petrol on the fire here, Since we are all having protected FS relations here, does that not negate some of the health concerns? Or does the BBBJ vs CBJ debate come in here too.

This is quite a fascinating discussion to me.

[Chica Chaser]

Originally Posted by Valerie

he saw 16 diff ladies...needless to say, I cancelled our appt the following week...

Again, why would you stop seeing this person? Because he went crazy and fucked a bunch of women, is he now tainted? Diseased? I still don't get it.

In this particular instance, are you done with this regular forever? Or is he just off your list temporarily? What steps would he have to perform to get back in your good graces?

[Valerie]

Originally Posted by Chica Chaser

Not questioning your methods Val, just trying to understand them. Of course, health safety is paramount.

But more importantly,I'm curious about the thinking of other ladies here on the "serial hobbyist is tainted" train of thought. I'll throw a little more petrol on the fire here, Since we are all having protected FS relations here, does that not negate some of the health concerns? Or does the BBBJ vs CBJ debate come in here too.

This is quite a fascinating discussion to me.

Originally Posted by Chica Chaser

Again, why would you stop seeing this person? Because he went crazy and fucked a bunch of women, is he now tainted? Diseased? I still don't get it.

In this particular instance, are you done with this regular forever? Or is he just off your list temporarily? What steps would he have to perform to get back in your good graces?

Ok...I'm not sure why this is so difficult to grasp, I've told this story to loads of gents and ladies in this biz and their reactions were the same as mine....There will always be health concerns no matter what....As to why I didn't want to see my client who had just screwed 16 girls in 2 weeks....I knew every girl that he had seen (as he had written reviews)...there were 5 or 6 of them whom I think are dirty, had been told by other clients some of their "BB for more money" antics, so that made me not want to see him even more, since I do offer bbbj, I wanted my mouth no where near any part of him...I thought of it this way, he saw 16 pretty high volume girls in 14 days, each of those girls are having a lot of encounters with other blokes as well during that time, so why would I want to subject myself to a higher risk situation? Do you not have common health concerns?

It's not that he's not in my good graces either, we are still friends and email eachother to this day... even he understands where I am coming from lol...

I had also asked that particular gent in the past how often he got himself tested..his reply was " Do you think that is a good idea?".....Enough said...

[Chica Chaser]

No need to get snippy. Perhaps the loads of people are simply brighter than myself. Just trying to understand the thinking and interested if that is most ladies thinking.

As I said and you quoted "Of course, health safety is paramount"

I appreciate your input.

[Valerie]

Originally Posted by Chica Chaser

No need to get snippy. Perhaps the loads of people are simply brighter than myself. Just trying to understand the thinking and interested if that is most ladies thinking.

As I said and you quoted "Of course, health safety is paramount"

I appreciate your input.

I'm sorry, wasn't trying to come across snippy, ( I really wasn't, my personality on message boards comes across a bit brash..)...I can't tell ya if it's most ladies way of thinking, but it's definitely mine....bottom line is I hope everyone out there is being safe!

[gimme_that]

Originally Posted by Naomi4u

More than 20 oks scare the living crap out of me for some reason.

Well seeing you ladies opinion on p411 oks prior to meeting is telling. Why should a hobbyist even contact you from that site.....he should just give you the providers website and phone number with 2 or 3 references and make you do all the work.

You once said in a thread that....when a guy sends you his p411 profile you check and contact every reference on his list......surely 21phone conversations as opposed to your limit of 20 is of no consequence. Future clients can just observe this thread, and just send you ref info.

That way they can send you a p411 request for an ok after you meet........then you and other ladies can shoot them down or decline an ok because he sees too many ladies. Seems contradict the safeety LE concerns and track record for being respectful.

Any way you slice it....it is pot calling the kettle black.

[Valerie]

Originally Posted by gimme_that

.he should just give you the providers website and phone number with 2 or 3 references and make you do all the work.

That may work for some, but I require a p411 or DateCheck ID on my contact form, if a bloke just sends me an email, I kindly direct him to fill out my form...

[gimme_that]

Originally Posted by Valerie

That may work for some, but I require a p411 or DateCheck ID on my contact form, if a bloke just sends me an email, I kindly direct him to fill out my form...

So basically the purpose of the site and use of it for. Safety of hobbyist and providers works against them in a sense in your book. It sorta sounds like ladies are trying to control hobbyist or future clients habits.

If your way of a perfect p411 client was the standard.......guys would see you and then rely heavily upon just you for a reference to see other ladies...because you require so few to even see you. But again, you probably wouldn't give him refs for long if he didn't see you again and again.....maybe the session was good but he didn't want to repeat......this is where other references and a track record comes in handy.

He could have more p411 references at times because simplly, some ladies just aren't the "repeat" atf type. Sometimes its hard to find regulars, much less providers that totally click with us.

Also a guy could easily use one verification site more than the other......and just use one with a few refs for potential situations such as these. There is still ways around it. A guy could easily delete all his oks....then refill them with providers he has seen just for the purpose of negating the potential issue of being considered high volume.

[pyramider]

Maybe the high volume of provider ok's in a short period of time is due to him receiving his 90 day allocation of mail order Viagra from India . . .

[MsElena]

Valerie,

I wasn't trying to tell you how to run your business or any other lady. I'm just playing devil's advocate here. I'm not a high volume provider, but I won't turn down a guy who decides to see a lot of ladies within a given amount of time. As I said in my previous post, maybe some of those sessions weren't FS. If I turned down a guy for those reasons, he'd throw that back at me and call me a hypocrite.

Again, I'm playing devil's advocate:

Not every guy is going to be on P411 or Date-Check. So, how does one know if the gents who aren't on those sites aren't "serial hobbyists?" How do you know that if he only has 10 OK's within a lets say two yr period that he hasn't seen 40 other ladies that he just didn't get OK's from? Maybe he just picked and choosed certain ladies with good reps to get OK's from.

But, every lady is entitled to choose whom she sees fit. I'd never try to force a lady to see someone she didn't want to see for whatever reasons.

[Naomi4u]

Originally Posted by Cpalmson

So what you are saying is that you think hobbyists are better off finding a few good ATFs and see them on a regular basis. Is that the case? While I'm not the type of hobbyist to "hit" every provider who is out there, I do tend to enjoy seeing different providers. I think both hobbyists and providers run a risk if they get too familiar with one another. At some point, someone will try to take advantage of the other. I'll repeat with a provider, but it would have to be at least several months (if not more) between dates.

Originally Posted by TexEngnr

Naomi - What is about 20+ okays that freaks you out? I don't understand. My 18 okays are spread over almost 2 years. Would I be better off deleting some of the older okays? I am not challenging you - I just want to understand.

If they are spread over 2 years then it's ok. Like Valerie said I'm talking about men that has seen 40 providers in 2 months.

Originally Posted by Valerie

I tend to look at the dates....If a bloke has 40 okays in a 2-3 month period, I'll take a pass

How often they are seeing ladies, I also check out the ladies they've seen as well, if I feel they are a bit dodgy then I won't see them...Just the way I do things...

Exactly right my dear. I don't ONLY screen the gent but I screen the lady he has seen. If there is a rumor that she does BBFS and if she advertises the infamous stripper slide.. I will NOT see him. Again this is my preference.

Originally Posted by Chica Chaser

Please expound on that, I can't understand that. I'm truly interested in the thought process and reasoning behind it. Guess I better start deleting, if this is the case on a widespread basis!

If a lady has hundreds of reviews, I don't take a pass because of it.

Originally Posted by Chica Chaser

I would think that a "serial" hobbyist would be the guys you would be wanting to see. The guys that know how to play the game and are safe from an LE and physical standpoint.

I don't even have 10 reviews but even if the lady had a 100 reviews that does not matter and I will elaborate on that in a few.

No I have said plenty of times that I do not date and I will NOT date a serial hobbyist and that definition is coming up next. It might put me on some no see lists but they're exactly the kind of men I do NOT want to see.

Originally Posted by Valerie

A serial hobbyist does not equal a safe one....Just because a guy may see a lot of ladies, doesn't mean a guy who does it 1-2 times per month doesn't....As far as LE, well no guy is ever safe from them.

[Naomi4u]

There is NOTHING any of you can post that will change our minds. No point in arguing with our screening methods.. it's not going to change. I refuse to see guys under 35 (older the better), I have refused to see men because of their race and I refuse to see men that have seen certain providers. That's how I screen. Some of you ask what is a serial hobbyists? I thought all the OKs are to prove that we are safe/not LE? .. Not necessarily.

A serial hobbyist is someone that sees A lot of girls in a short period of time. A serial hobbyist has posted more than 30 reviews and is the "big man on campus" on all the review boards. A serial hobbyists is usually the guy that threatens to ruin our business if we don't comply with his rules. A client is a guy that comes in, pays me and returns back to his life. He does not post reviews. Only calls me when he needs me. Most of the guys I see are clients. That's why I have less than 10 reviews on the world wide web. A lot of providers have pages and pages of reviews and I do not wish to be them. Yes It shows that they're credible and all but there are also a lot of credible providers that don't have ANY reviews.

So you are now mad at me because I have this "rule" that is fine. I have been doing this long enough to know that there are men out there that prefer to stick with only a few ladies or hobby a few times a month. I can make a list of men that I will not see with their eccie handles to give you an example. I can also tell you WHY I will not see him but I won't do that.

Originally Posted by MsElena

Valerie,

I wasn't trying to tell you how to run your business or any other lady. I'm just playing devil's advocate here. I'm not a high volume provider, but I won't turn down a guy who decides to see a lot of ladies within a given amount of time. As I said in my previous post, maybe some of those sessions weren't FS. If I turned down a guy for those reasons, he'd throw that back at me and call me a hypocrite.

Some women have the luxury not to take every man that sends them a p411. I'm one of those women. Read what I posted above. I wholeheartedly agree with everything Valerie has posted. There is a BIG difference between clients and hobbyists. I want clients not hobbyists. I also want men with standards. If I see that he sees nothing but bp girls with no rep then it's a big NO. A lot of my friends are the same way.

[Valerie]

Originally Posted by gimme_that

So basically the purpose of the site and use of it for. Safety of hobbyist and providers works against them in a sense in your book. It sorta sounds like ladies are trying to control hobbyist or future clients habits.

If your way of a perfect p411 client was the standard.......guys would see you and then rely heavily upon just you for a reference to see other ladies...because you require so few to even see you. But again, you probably wouldn't give him refs for long if he didn't see you again and again.....maybe the session was good but he didn't want to repeat......this is where other references and a track record comes in handy.

He could have more p411 references at times because simplly, some ladies just aren't the "repeat" atf type. Sometimes its hard to find regulars, much less providers that totally click with us.

Also a guy could easily use one verification site more than the other......and just use one with a few refs for potential situations such as these. There is still ways around it. A guy could easily delete all his oks....then refill them with providers he has seen just for the purpose of negating the potential issue of being considered high volume.

Um, when did I say I require blokes that have "so few" OKs?...Never did...You know nothing about me, so for you to say that I probably don't give my clients references is just ridiculous....Go to my Datecheck or p411 profile and see how many "OKs" I've given out..you'll find that it's quite a few ...Or ask any of the gents that have reviewed me, they will set the record straight for ya...

As far as your last paragraph, I'm sure we are all aware of that, there is no way of knowing 100% for sure how many one has seen, but I do what works for me, (and for the record it's working great .. and what I'm comfortable with, if you don't like it that's your problem. There are plenty of other ladies who screen different that I do, there is no wrong or right here, just personal preference.

Originally Posted by MsElena

Not every guy is going to be on P411 or Date-Check. So, how does one know if the gents who aren't on those sites aren't "serial hobbyists?" How do you know that if he only has 10 OK's within a lets say two yr period that he hasn't seen 40 other ladies that he just didn't get OK's from? Maybe he just picked and choosed certain ladies with good reps to get OK's from.

In general I will not see a guy if he's not on DC or P411, there are exceptions, but for the most part I will take a pass, I am not in a position that I have to take every appointment that comes at me, so I do what I'm comfortable with and what works for me....

As I said above, obviously there is no way to know for sure how many ladies a guy has seen, however, I do what works for me

[Eccie Addict]

Nevermind my post.... I didn't read the whole thread before I posted which was already answered lol.

[MsElena]

Originally Posted by Naomi4u

Some women have the luxury not to take every man that sends them a p411. I'm one of those women. Read what I posted above. I wholeheartedly agree with everything Valerie has posted. There is a BIG difference between clients and hobbyists. I want clients not hobbyists. I also want men with standards. If I see that he sees nothing but bp girls with no rep then it's a big NO. A lot of my friends are the same way.

I also have the luxury of turning down requests from whatever site they contact me on or if they call me. I turn down more clients than I see for numerous different reasons.

As I said earlier, not trying to tell any of the ladies what to do. Just playing devil's advocate to figure out the why's, who's, where's and when's.

I don't think the guys are trying to change your mind, I think they're just trying to figure out the reasoning because as a provider, we see more guys than vice versa.

Do the guys get checked as often as most smart providers do, one would hope. But, I guess it also depends on how often they hobby.