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So I have pondered on this for awhile. I am aware this could turn into an ugly debate but I am hoping that we can play nice and debate like adults.
Why is there such a negative correlation with the WK. In history knights were often revered. They protected the innocent or weak. They held high standards for themselves such as high ethic and moral codes. Knights would strive to earn their titles. Yet so often I see it spoken as a insult on these forums.
I understand the dislike for the "captain save a hoe" even ladies find that particular type irritating despite their best intentions.
From what I gather a man is branded a white knight when he defends a lady of choice to an individual or more likely mass of disgruntled gentlemen. Does the lady and gentlemen not have the right to refute or debate a negative comment? If you were at the bar with friends and a fight broke out would your friends be considered white knights for defending you? If a stranger stopped an attack on you would you frown at him or her because they were "white knighting?"
Does this brand only find a negative connotation in this business or would it bother you gentlemen if you saw it happen in the everyday work place? Example: one man calls a woman a slut and another punches him for the insult. Or is it because we are providers and the stigma's placed upon us set us apart and make us fair targets?
Feel free to correct my curiosity and debate the topic. Or agree I am a woman after all I loved to be agreed with.
Depends on the provider in question. If one has a well deserved reputation for negative connotations, and someone jumps in to counter that, most would expect eye rolling in the direction of that WK. More often than not, the negative points presented tend to legitimize themselves over time. Reputations build up based on consistency of actions on both sides of this coin. Jumping to someone's defense isn't needed when the person being criticized can easily present their own defense and state their point. Why would I care when someone comes running in from left field to try and defend a provider when they were not privy to the situation that occurred, which resulted in the criticism in the 1st place. Their input to be honest, is pretty meaningless.
Whitenights in the hobby tend to have very loose lips in regards to private info. They also prevent valid info about girls from comming out. Some white knighted get rather aggressive in "defending" their girl .
Their is a difference between sticking up for someone and blindly defending they. Whiteknights don't listen to reason. So if someone sticks up for another when they get called a name that makes them a decent person. When a guy shares his experience and another guy blindly calls him out because he thinks he knows better is not good for the other men.
From what I have seen you don't have a need for a hobby whiteknight even though I'm sure guys would line up for you. There are girls that have a lot of drama and inconsistent performance that have guys in their back pockets that give whightknights a bad name.
Truckman and bobalias:
Interesting perspectives. I never considered the possibilities that the "WK" motives might not be pure. I can understand in that scenario the displeasure from both angles.
Super:
I can appreciate this angle as well and the frustration incurred. I counter with this, hypothetically (and I mean this in the full sense as I have not encountered this first hand nor am I thinking of any particular circumstance) A woman with neither a bad nor good reputation. For this scenario let us peg her as almost unknown. a group of like minded gentlemen are disgruntled because she only offers covered services and her menu is somewhat limited. In this scene they are aggressive and judgmental of her choices. Would a white knight be frowned upon? Does the woman deserve a defense? What if she is too scared or nervous to defend herself?
Obviously I have the confidence and articulacy to defend myself without the help of a white knight (though I have often found them sweet when they get all protective of me) yet we cannot all be bless with the words and self assurances.
I hope this is not being taken aggressively. the whole idea for this thread was based upon a deep seeded curiosity that has grown over the years
Whitenights in the hobby tend to have very loose lips in regards to private info. They also prevent valid info about girls from comming out. Some white knighted get rather aggressive in "defending" their girl .
Their is a difference between sticking up for someone and blindly defending they. Whiteknights don't listen to reason. So if someone sticks up for another when they get called a name that makes them a decent person. When a guy shares his experience and another guy blindly calls him out because he thinks he knows better is not good for the other men.
From what I have seen you don't have a need for a hobby whiteknight even though I'm sure guys would line up for you. There are girls that have a lot of drama and inconsistent performance that have guys in their back pockets that give whightknights a bad name.
So what defines the white knight is not the defense but rather blind heroism? Again another angle I had not considered. Interesting. Understandable too.
And no I do not usually need a white knight. I do get a small smile when I see one lift his sword for me however as a whole I try to avoid giving anyone ammunition to attack me in the first place. This is, in fact, the most controversial thread I have ever attempted and I admit full and complete nervousness when I first typed it out. But oh curiosity can dig if you never ask.
So what defines the white knight is not the defense but rather blind heroism? Again another angle I had not considered. Interesting. Understandable too.
And no I do not usually need a white knight. I do get a small smile when I see one lift his sword for me however as a whole I try to avoid giving anyone ammunition to attack me in the first place. This is, in fact, the most controversial thread I have ever attempted and I admit full and complete nervousness when I first typed it out. But oh curiosity can dig if you never ask.
The blind heroism is the time I use it as a negative. I'm sure there are guys trying to get a freebie, but those guys are just pricks. I have seen guys try to tear other guys a new one in private areas because they said something negative about their girl. Sometimes I have known the negative info to be true.
There has been a girl or two here that I have hated to see negative info about. Some of the times I have said stuff to defend the girl. Sometimes I have kept my mouth shut because I knew it might be true. I personally will stick to one comment because I only have so much info.
Whitenights in the hobby tend to have very loose lips in regards to private info. They also prevent valid info about girls from comming out. Some white knighted get rather aggressive in "defending" their girl .
Their is a difference between sticking up for someone and blindly defending they. Whiteknights don't listen to reason. So if someone sticks up for another when they get called a name that makes them a decent person. When a guy shares his experience and another guy blindly calls him out because he thinks he knows better is not good for the other men.
From what I have seen you don't have a need for a hobby whiteknight even though I'm sure guys would line up for you. There are girls that have a lot of drama and inconsistent performance that have guys in their back pockets that give whightknights a bad name.
Good points. The ladies are adults in a tough business. Their clients can be tough customers. That's life. WK's cross the line between business and getting personal with the ladies. That is their business and I really don't care if they do. They shouldn't stick their nose out and call out reviewers because they want to defend someone for their personal interest or gain. This prevents honest reviews because guys know they will get called out for criticizing certain ladies. Then the rest of us are screwed when we get shitty service after following a recommendation. If the lady needs a WK, she should find a new line of work.
I think defending another person is honorable but doing it trying to get a freebie is wrong.
This is true--- and I don't really see girls or guys defending a person who is being bullied or treated bad, as white knighting. I would hope that any decent human being would do that.
I consider white knighting the constant promotion and bragging about certain individuals. That is what ads are for.
I've observed that WK'ing in the hobby and on this board especially takes on a different meaning and tone than it does in "real life".
As others have said, WK's here are often not being honorable for honors sake as there's generally a subversive motive driving it. WKs in the hobby have little respect from other hobbyists because the hidden motives are common knowledge. There is also a tendency to lash out against hobbyists who disagree with them. This can be to protect their financial interests (freebies, lower rates, special treatment etc) but also to show dominance and be the alpha male.
Often I see WK debates degenerate into personal attacks between hobbyists with the original reason why a provider was being defended by a WK becoming forgotten.
I tend to agree that unfortunately there is a difference between the treatment of a provider vs. treatment of women in "real life".
By nature, this is a business and there can be a dehumanizing aspect to it. Providers are often seen as commodities, not just as people doing this for pleasure and a living.
Reviews are sometimes written like an Amazon.com reviews and providers are compared by the services they provide. If you read some of the posts on here, there's a percentage of hobbyists who view providers as disposable as they just see hobbyists as walking dollar signs. The human aspects are often lost and as such, providers are both consciously and subconsciously treated differently.
That said, the flip side is some WKs are ridiculed because there are some providers that take advantage of them. Just as hobbyists protect their financial interests doing it, providers can and do get involved, stroking a mans ego that perpetuates the WK behavior and arguments for THEIR gain. When this is the main driving factor of WK'ing, it's fairly obvious, resulting in the back and forth that happens. Some ridicule because they see it, others try to point it out to give perspective which is often met with "you're full if shit" tirades.
In "real life", women are primarily seen as 'people' first. They aren't dehumanized but are spoken to and treated like someone's daughter, sister, wife etc. It's ingrained in most men not to mistreat women and when it's observed (verbally abusing a woman, being aggressive and violent towards a woman, taking advantage of a woman in a vulnerable situation etc) most men go into WK mode and step in to stop the mistreatment.
THAT is the noble honorable form of WK'ing that is respected -and is so because none of the other factors involved in hobby WK'ing are at play.
I'm a White Knight. I admit it. Not all the time but yes that's me! Say something bad about Ms. Rivers and just watch what happens! I dare you!
All kidding aside there is nothing worse that a guy deciding to go WK without knowing the facts. At any given moment I could go WK for a provider or for a provider catching shit from a jealous competitor or for a newbie.
As my buddy VK use to say "Fuckem... let's have a scotch."
WK's mostly think the provider is willing to become their best friend, and providers lead these clients by the nose ring, some of these WK's might become stalkers, and some providers love the attention.
Some providers love all the drama, it's free advertising. Because some clients want to see if she is really worth the drama.
Some WK's might even be a fake handle, management, pimp, BF, or SO.
When a review starts missing with their money / income, a WK will jump up.
As this has happened in the past about a provider posted she doesn't have management of any type because it was in a review, but the funny part the photos of the provider and the person in question were posted online, the provider left the KC market ASAP, went to another state for a while, she came back with a new handle and phone number, but the photos can never hide everything.
Some guys don't care if the providers have some type of management or security.
I world prefer a little security. If they have the providers back, and she is legit, then they would also have your back if they noticed something strange happening.
The only thing I dislike is the phone calls 30 minutes and 55 minutes into the meeting.
I was at one time flagged as a WK, but was taught this is a business, some providers have good days, and bad. Some clients are just plain nasty, freaky, weird, and mean, I have heard the story's. I learned to keep this to myself, because it's all she said, I don't plan on meeting the client to find out his side of the story.
I have my meeting, pay my donation, time spent, memory made, review might be written and most of the time won't.
Another thing I also dislike is a provider posting lies about clients they have never seen, story in the powder room. The mods won't do anything to verify these lies, but ask questions as how was this information might had been leaked (by whom). The same as the WK's tell the provider, Dark Queens will also leak information. (DQ) aka drama queens. With a cherry on top.
Another thing I also dislike is a provider posting lies about clients they have never seen, story in the powder room. The mods won't do anything to verify these lies
Goodness Clouseau...we all know the ML is coed but I have always been under the impression the powder room was secure yet you seem to have direct access to what is being said. Tell us more Clouseau...what is your provider handle? or who is your source?..after all you certainly are not shy about letting us all know that you do indeed have firsthand knowledge to the PR..
I wonder as well how one can "verify these lies"? Possibly you and you alone are capable of verifying something that is not true..
White Knights and negative correlations
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