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ShysterJon · 02-21-2014, 10:51 PM

There's probably going to be some talk the next few days about this incident in Austin, so I want to say a few things about interacting with the police.

If you are told by a cop to stop, stop. Don't run away.
As you interact with the officer, try to remain calm. Don't make any furtive moves, curse, or shout.
Under the law, you are only required to state your name to a cop if you're not driving. You are not required to produce ID. You do not have to answer any question other than, "What is your name?"
Be polite to the officer.
At some point, ask, "Am I free to go?" If the officer says yes, go. If the officer says no, ask, "Am I under arrest?" If the officer says yes, say, "I refuse to answer any further questions without talking to my lawyer."

The police are going to go into a 'subdue and arrest' mode whenever someone resists their authority. Don't resist. Remember the old song, 'I Fought the Law and the Law Won'? It's true.

We don't know all the facts, but it appears to me that had the jogger in Austin kept her cool, she would have been given only a warning not to jaywalk.

"She Allegedly Went on a Simple Jog in Her Toe Shoes. So Why Did She End Up Screaming and in Handcuffs? ‘I Didn’t F**king Do Anything Wrong!’"

Fancyinheels · 02-22-2014, 06:33 AM

I absolutely agree with all of the above, ShysterJon, but I can see where this was badly handled by the cops, who were evidently just in a pissy mood.

From the news story I saw on TV, featuring witness statements, she was jogging with headphones on, evidently didn't hear the police address her, was suddenly grabbed from behind, and her first instinct (as mine would be) was to struggle against an attacker. By the time she realized that he was a police officer, too late. Probably didn't think to carry an ID with her in that skimpy outfit. Young college girl just running along suddenly being cuffed and forced into a police car for no apparent reason that she can discern? Of course she was upset, probably dazed, not thinking clearly, protesting loudly, crying. I think that her reaction was pretty understandable.

This arrest will now follow her the rest of her life, even if the misdemeanor charges get dropped.

Thank you, LE, for protecting Austin from jaywalkers, a menace to society, right up there with gaunt streetwalkers, grimy panhandlers, and shady drug deals, or streetwalking panhandling drug dealers under gaunt, grimy trees.

I hope that the Austin PD is embarrassed by this.

Oh, by the way, how many lawyers does it take to change a light bulb? The Supreme Court will have to let us know, because they're still arguing the appeals on unfair labor practices and contract expectations.

Unique_Carpenter · 02-22-2014, 07:38 AM

Just wondering if
Brown v. Texas, 443 U.S. 47 (1979)
or
Dutton v. Hayes-Pupko, No. 03-06-00438-CV, 2008 Tex. App (in Austin)
are somewhat similar.

ShysterJon · 02-22-2014, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unique_Carpenter

Just wondering if
Brown v. Texas, 443 U.S. 47 (1979)
or
Dutton v. Hayes-Pupko, No. 03-06-00438-CV, 2008 Tex. App (in Austin)
are somewhat similar.

Well, if you want me to read the cases and give my view, you need to tell me WHY you want to know if the cases are similar and what it has to do with the subject of this thread.

El Cid · 02-22-2014, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fancyinheels

... jogging with headphones on, evidently didn't hear the police address her, was suddenly grabbed from behind ...

From what I see here, the jogger was oblivious to the world when she was surprised from behind. We all have to be alert to the world around us and have handy ID and the house & car keys.

As for cops, they strongly dislike any hint of challenge to their authority, and that's that.

ShysterJon · 02-22-2014, 10:18 AM

"After Video Goes Viral, Austin Police Defend Jaywalking Jogger Arrest"

This article states: "Austin Police arrested a woman jogging by the UT Campus Thursday morning for not providing identification after being stopped." If that's true, it was a false arrest because it's not a crime in Texas to fail to provide ID: "A person commits an offense if he intentionally refuses to give his name, residence address, or date of birth to a peace officer who has lawfully arrested the person and requested the information." The section of the Texas Penal Code regarding the failure to identify imposes no duty on a person to have or provide ID. (Of course, a person who's driving is required to have a valid driver's license in their possession and must produce it to a law officer pursuant to a legal traffic stop.) btw, failing to give your name, address, and DOB after you've been arrested is merely a Class C misdemeanor, an offense punishable by fine only like a speeding ticket and is an offense rarely subjecting the offender to arrest.

See Texas Penal Code sec. 38.02 - Failure to Identify.

Even more disturbing is this comment by Austin Police Chief Art Acevedo: "In other cities there's cops who are actually committing sexual assaults on duty, so I thank God that this is what passes for a controversy in Austin, Texas." Gee, Chief. Thanks. That's a great comment by the head law enforcement officer of what's supposed to be the most progressive city in Texas, and one of the most progressive in the U.S. We should excuse the cops' behavior because it wasn't as bad as rape. Maybe the Austin City Council should review this idiot's contract.

ShysterJon · 02-22-2014, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by El Cid

From what I see here, the jogger was oblivious to the world when she was surprised from behind. We all have to be alert to the world around us and have handy ID and the house & car keys.

As for cops, they strongly dislike any hint of challenge to their authority, and that's that.

That's exactly what the witness, Chris Quintero, says in the KUT article:

Quote:

Suddenly, one of the cops shouts at an innocent girl jogging with her headphones on through West Campus. He wobbled after her and grabbed her by the arm. Startled, and not knowing it was a cop, she jerked her arm away. The cop viewed this as resisting arrest and proceeded to grab both arms tightly, placing her in handcuffs. She repeatedly pleaded with them saying that she was just exercising and to let her go. She repeatedly cried out, "I did not do anything wrong…just give me the ticket." The other officer strolled over and now they were making a scene. She tried to get up. I doubt she was running away as she was in handcuffs, but the second cop pushed her back down to the ground.

Unique_Carpenter · 02-22-2014, 06:38 PM

Thank you for your additional comments Jon.
The two cites I mentioned earlier relate to cop's not following actual Texas law on an identity request, resulting in the cops getting their butts handed to them by judges in two different cases. One Federal, another from the Texas appeals bench in Austin.

Nonetheless, and as you have mentioned repeatedly in earlier posts, and as you again mention above, when a cop goes into arrest mode, nothing stops them.

One of the things that I find even more disturbing than the chief’s after-comments (and I also think he needs to try salvage his job) is that there are witness quotes where the gal said “write me a ticket”. I would think that this indicates that she had acquiesced, and may have verbally provided, or was clearly willing to verbally provide her ID data. Thus, even if the cops had any sort of real reason to stop her, if this gal has friends that know how to deal with this, and I’m sure she will come Monday, these cops are going to be spending a lot of time explaining things to Dictaphones (I actually saw one in use a couple weeks ago).

Thanks again for a nice summary.

Col. Zodiak · 02-22-2014, 11:16 PM

Just imagine if she had a CHL and had been packing!

Unique_Carpenter · 02-23-2014, 07:52 AM

Excellent perspective CZ. Sooner or later......
Ignoring the legal aftermath, if someone thinks they are being assaulted (grab from behind), things happen.

By the way, welcome to Kansas City, less popcorn consumption than Texas.

The Slut · 02-23-2014, 12:58 PM

This is a quite disturbing display of force. My guess is that sometime Monday someone who can help will step in on behalf of this young lady and things will get really interesting. Especially since the police officers actions were witnessed and there were video recordings of some of their actions. I find it hard to believe you were resisting arrest if you never saw or heard the officer and I think your average citizen would agree.

ShysterJon · 02-23-2014, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Slut

I find it hard to believe you were resisting arrest if you never saw or heard the officer and I think your average citizen would agree.

The young lady wasn't charged with resisting arrest. She was charged with failing to produce ID.

Yesterday, the Austin Police Chief apologized for his incredibly insensitive remarks about the case:

"APD Chief Apologizes for Sexual Assault Comment After Jaywalking Jogger Arrest (Update)"

RedLeg505 · 02-23-2014, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShysterJon

The young lady wasn't charged with resisting arrest. She was charged with failing to produce ID.

Yesterday, the Austin Police Chief apologized for his incredibly insensitive remarks about the case:

"APD Chief Apologizes for Sexual Assault Comment After Jaywalking Jogger Arrest (Update)"

So, apparently the APD Chief is NOT cognizant of the law See Texas Penal Code sec. 38.02 - Failure to Identify?? And sees this as "failing to produce ID"? Wonder if there is a legal defense fund for this gal and how to contribute to it. I'd LOVE to see the police try and defend this in court.

ShysterJon · 02-23-2014, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedLeg505

So, apparently the APD Chief is NOT cognizant of the law See Texas Penal Code sec. 38.02 - Failure to Identify?? And sees this as "failing to produce ID"? Wonder if there is a legal defense fund for this gal and how to contribute to it. I'd LOVE to see the police try and defend this in court.

The chief hasn't commented on the merits vel non of the charge. I expect the defendant is getting first-class legal representation, considering the notoriety of the case.

The Slut · 02-23-2014, 06:43 PM

[QUOTE=ShysterJon;1055010506]The young lady wasn't charged with resisting arrest. She was charged with failing to produce ID.

That is what confused me because from the reports the officer followed her grabbed her arm she pulled away and then he handcuffed her. Since it was reported she had headphones on I don't understand how she could have even heard the request for identification prior to being handcuffed. In addition I cannot believe that it is approved procedure to handcuff someone under the reported circumstances.