Mass Shooting in Orlando

[Chung Tran]

apparently unrelated to Orlando..

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/l...nap-story.html

can't be comforting to be Gay today, knowing that haters were out in force on both coasts.

[Luke_Wyatt]

Originally Posted by Aoi

Armed guards.

End of story.

Ok tell me what security guard is willing to take a job at a night club knowing that patrons can carry concealed weapons on them and these patrons are coming from all over the metroplex. You know alcohol and guns are a lethal combination. All it would take is one drunk guy and all hell would break loose. It's dangerous enough to work some clubs where you know people don't have guns and you think allowing guns into a nightclub is a good solution just b/c a terrorist might come in ha ha ha ha- you are really funny. I have a question would you work Security for a club in South Dallas, Detroit, Las Angeles where patrons could bring guns into the club?

[Aoi]

Originally Posted by wildcat

Haven't seen any reports of Baptists, Methodists, Jehovah Witnesses shooting up people. But lots of Muslims and once again O'Bama refused to call the act Jihadists or Radical Muslims, but did point out that it was too easy to get a gun in the US. And I hope Aoi is correct, GO TRUMP.

Wildcat

[Chung Tran]

Originally Posted by Luke_Wyatt

Ok tell me what security guard is willing to take a job at a night club knowing that patrons can carry concealed weapons on them

he said armed guards, not armed patrons.. still illegal to carry inside.

[Tx Noob]

Originally Posted by Aoi

lmao. "Libertarians." So, basically, you don't even have a stance. Libertarians are almost as bad as vegans. They have to constantly remind everyone why they're more hip for being a Libertarian.

He was born in NYC and he was under investigation from the FBI. He was also subject to surveillance for a while. Maybe the government, instead of worrying about transgenders would do better in monitoring people like this Muslim piece of shit.

My point of banning Muslims and this guy are actually mutually exclusive. Banning Muslims prevents more from coming in. Agencies doing their fucking job instead of worrying about politics, would have done something.

Again, you are trying to shift the argument away from this guy and moving it to Roof, DC Sniper, McVeigh and so on. You want to know the difference between people like that and this Muslim guy? The Muslim guy is a part of an organization that is ACTIVELY trying to kill Americans. They literally go around chopping off heads of people they disagree with, gays, Jews, Christians, even other Muslims. They are a part of an evil fucking religion that has done nothing but kill people for the past 1500 years+. They are called to do shit just like this by their religion. It's literally written in their Hadiths. And if the American shooters are bad enough, why the fuck would we want to bring in people who want nothing short of the destruction of Western civilization? Why are libertarians such massive pussies?

That is why you are a progressive.

If one is a psychopath, why does the religion matter? No matter the reason, they're going to do something evil anyway.

[Luke_Wyatt]

Originally Posted by Chung Tran

apparently unrelated to Orlando..

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/l...nap-story.html

can't be comforting to be Gay today, knowing that haters were out in force on both coasts.

Well his name is James Howell good thing it wasn't Mustafa Ahmad Akbar- other wise the article that originally reads: Man with weapons and potential explosives identified, 'wanted to harm' L.A. gay pride parade, chief says would have read: Islamic militant with weapons and potential explosives identified, 'wanted to harm' L.A. gay pride parade, chief says

[Aoi]

Originally Posted by Luke_Wyatt

Ok tell me what security guard is willing to take a job at a night club knowing that patrons can carry concealed weapons on them and these patrons are coming from all over the metroplex. You know alcohol and guns are a lethal combination. All it would take is one drunk guy and all hell would break loose. It's dangerous enough to work some clubs where you know people don't have guns and you think allowing guns into a nightclub is a good solution just b/c a terrorist might come in ha ha ha ha- you are really funny. I have a question would you work Security for a club in South Dallas, Detroit, Las Angeles where patrons could bring guns into the club?

I never said anything about armed club-goers. It's really uncomfortable to dance when you've got a gun attached to your hip. The armed people should be the guards and security. Seriously, one really big dude at the one entrance to a club isn't going to stop shit. The reality is, more places need more people with guns. Schools should have armed teachers. Banks should have armed security. And clubs, especially ones that are alcohol heavy should have more of an armed presence.

Also, depending on how the club is set up, it is against the law to carry a gun into an establishment. If the establishment makes more than 50% of its revenue in alcohol, your CHL is utterly useless and it is illegal.

I wouldn't have a problem working security in a club, so long as I know I'm the only one [legally] allowed to carry.

[Chung Tran]

Originally Posted by Luke_Wyatt

Well his name is James Howell good thing it wasn't Mustafa Ahmad Akbar- other wise the article that originally reads: Man with weapons and potential explosives identified, 'wanted to harm' L.A. gay pride parade, chief says would have read: Islamic militant with weapons and potential explosives identified, 'wanted to harm' L.A. gay pride parade, chief says

Ha! perhaps.. but the Orlando gunman did pledge allegiance to ISIS as he sprayed bullets throughout Pulse nightclub.. not like the Press jumped to a conclusion.

[Luke_Wyatt]

Originally Posted by Tx Noob

If one is a psychopath, why does the religion matter? No matter the reason, they're going to do something evil anyway.

At last someone that seems my point- could have been a Christian, Jew, Hindu etc- if they are a sick bastard it's irrelevant of their religion.

[Aoi]

Originally Posted by Tx Noob

If one is a psychopath, why does the religion matter? No matter the reason, they're going to do something evil anyway.

Because there are over 1,000,000,000 ( I used the 0s for effect ) Muslims that believe in a religion in which their scriptures literally tell them to chop off heads of "infidels." This is backed by history and it's happening now. They are not psychopaths. They are of sound-mind and they are killing because they believe it to be correct.

Oh, and that's not even getting into genital mutilation, honor killings, female discrimination and legal rape.

I really hate being right....

[Aoi]

Originally Posted by Luke_Wyatt

At last someone that seems my point- could have been a Christian, Jew, Hindu etc- if they are a sick bastard it's irrelevant of their religion.

So, name some Christians who, in the words of their scripture, went and massacred a gay night club.. or any night club, really.

I'll be waiting for your empirical data, thank you.

Until then, shove your moral equivalence down the fucking toilet where it belongs.

[Luke_Wyatt]

Originally Posted by Aoi

I never said anything about armed club-goers. It's really uncomfortable to dance when you've got a gun attached to your hip. The armed people should be the guards and security. Seriously, one really big dude at the one entrance to a club isn't going to stop shit. The reality is, more places need more people with guns. Schools should have armed teachers. Banks should have armed security. And clubs, especially ones that are alcohol heavy should have more of an armed presence.

Also, depending on how the club is set up, it is against the law to carry a gun into an establishment. If the establishment makes more than 50% of its revenue in alcohol, your CHL is utterly useless and it is illegal.

I wouldn't have a problem working security in a club, so long as I know I'm the only one [legally] allowed to carry.

Right I agree- the was my point to Chung when he said that had many people had guns this might not have happened, but he failed to realize this happened at a place where typically guns wouldn't be a good idea-specifically b/c of alcohol content. There are some strip clubs in Dallas that have armed Dallas police officers which is a good deterrent, I am still reading the details- I hope the club at least had metal detectors, but bottomline there's no political solution to solve this problem.
If someone is going to do a mass shooting what's really going to stop some idiot from shooting up a place?

[Luke_Wyatt]

Originally Posted by Aoi

So, name some Christians who, in the words of their scripture, went and massacred a gay night club.. or any night club, really.

I'll be waiting for your empirical data, thank you.

Until then, shove your moral equivalence down the fucking toilet where it belongs.

Google IRA and then put your foot in your mouth- they bombed many clubs .
Here are more:
1. The Army of God

A network of violent Christianists that has been active since the early 1980s, the Army of God openly promotes killing abortion providers—and the long list of terrorists who have been active in that organization has included Paul Jennings Hill (who was executed by lethal injection in 2003 for the 1994 killings of abortion doctor John Britton and his bodyguard James Barrett), John C. Salvi (who killed two receptionists when he attacked a Planned Parenthood clinic in Brookline, Massachusetts in 1994) and Eric Rudolph, who is serving life in prison for his role in the Olympic Park bombing in Atlanta in 1996 and other terrorist acts. Rudolph, in fact, has often been exalted as a Christian hero on the Army of God’s website, as have fellow Army of God members such as Scott Roeder (who is serving life without parole for murdering Wichita, Kansas-based abortion doctor George Tiller in 2009), Shelley Shannon (who attempted to kill Tiller in 2003) and Michael Frederick Griffin (who is serving a life sentence for the 1993 killing of Dr. David Gunn, an OB-GYN, in Pensacola, Florida).

Although primarily an anti-abortion organization, the Army of God also has a history of promoting violence against gays. And one of the terrorist acts that Rudolph confessed to was bombing a lesbian bar in Atlanta in 1997.

2. Eastern Lightning, a.k.a. the Church of the Almighty God

Founded in Henan Province, China in 1990, Eastern Lightning (also known as the Church of the Almighty God or the Church of the Gospel’s Kingdom) is a Christianist cult with an end-time/apocalypse focus: Eastern Lightning believes that the world is coming to an end, and in the meantime, its duty is to slay as many demons as possible. While most Christianists have an extremely patriarchal viewpoint (much like their Islamist counterparts) and consider women inferior to men, Eastern Lightning believe that Jesus Christ will return to Earth in the form of a Chinese woman. But they are quite capable of violence against women: in May 2014, for example, members of the cult beat a 37-year-old woman named Wu Shuoyan to death in a McDonalds in Zhaoyuan, China when she refused to give them her phone number. Eastern Lightning members Zhang Lidong and his daughter, Zhang Fan, were convicted of murder for the crime and executed in February. In a 2014 interview in prison, Lidong expressed no remorse when he said of Shuoyan, “I beat her with all my might and stamped on her too. She was a demon. We had to destroy her.”

Eastern Lightning’s other acts of violence have ranged from the killing of a grammar school student in 2010 (in retaliation, police believe, for one of the child’s relatives wanting to leave the cult) to cult member Min Yongjun using a knife to attack an elderly woman and a group of schoolchildren in Chenpeng in 2012. Christian groups are not exempt from Eastern Lightning’s fanaticism: in 2002, cult members kidnapped 34 members of a Christian group called the China Gospel Fellowship and held them captive for two months in the hope of forcing them to join their cult. Although mainly active in the communist People’s Republic of China, Eastern Lighting has been trying to expand its membership in Hong Kong.


3. The Lord’s Resistance Army (LRA)

The mainstream media have had much to say about the Islamist brutality of Boko Haram, but one terrorist group they haven’t paid nearly as much attention to is the Lord’s Resistance Army—which was founded by Joseph Kony (a radical Christianist) in Uganda in 1987 and has called for the establishment of a severe Christian fundamentalist government in that country. The LRA, according to Human Rights Watch, has committed thousands of killings and kidnappings—and along the way, its terrorism spread from Uganda to parts of the Congo, the Central African Republic (CAR) and South Sudan. The word “jihadist” is seldom used in connection with the LRA, but in fact, the LRA’s tactics are not unlike those of ISIS or Boko Haram. And the governments Kony hopes to establish in Sub-Saharan Africa would implement a Christianist equivalent of Islamic Sharia law.

4. TheNational Liberation Front of Tripura

India is not only a country of Hindus and Sikhs, but also, of Muslims, Buddhists, Catholics and Protestants. Most of India’s Christians are peaceful, but a major exception is the National Liberation Front of Tripura (NLFT). Active in the state of Tripura in Northeastern India since 1989, NLFT is a paramilitary Christianist movement that hopes to secede from India and establish a Christian fundamentalist government in Tripura. NLFT has zero tolerance for any religion other than Christianity, and the group has repeatedly shown a willingness to kill, kidnap or torture Hindus who refuse to be converted to its extreme brand of Protestant fundamentalism.

In 2000, NLFT vowed to kill anyone who participated in Durga Puja (an annual Hindu festival) And in May 2003, at least 30 Hindus were murdered during one of NLFT’s killing sprees.

5. The Phineas Priesthood

White supremacist groups don’t necessarily have a religious orientation: some of them welcome atheists as long as they believe in white superiority. But the Christian Identity movement specifically combines white supremacist ideology with Christianist terrorism, arguing that violence against non-WASPs is ordained by God and that white Anglo Saxon Protestants are God’s chosen people. The modern Christian Identity movement in the U.S. has been greatly influenced by the Ku Klux Klan—an organization that has committed numerous acts of terrorism over the years—and in the 1970s, new Christian Identity groups like the Aryan Nations and the Covenant, the Sword and the Arm of the Lord (CSA) emerged. Another Christian Identity group of recent decades has been the Phineas Priesthood, whose members have been involved in violent activities ranging from abortion clinic bombings to bank robberies (mainly in the Pacific Northwest). On November 28, 2014, Phineas Priesthood member Larry Steven McQuilliams went on a violent rampage in Austin, Texas—where he fired over 100 rounds at various targets (including a federal courthouse, the local Mexican Consulate building and a police station) before being shot and killed by police.

ADVERTISEMENT

6. The Concerned Christians

One of the ironic things about some Christianists is the fact that although they believe that Jews must be converted to Christianity, they consider themselves staunch supporters of Israel. And some of them believe in violently forcing all Muslims out of Israel. The Concerned Christians, a Christianist doomsday cult that was founded by pastor Monte “Kim” Miller in Denver in the 1980s, alarmed Colorado residents when, in 1998, at least 60 of its members suddenly quit their jobs, abandoned their homes and went missing—and it turned out there was reason for concern. In 1999, Israeli officials arrested 14 members of the Concerned Christians in Jerusalem and deported them from Israel because they suspected them of plotting terrorist attacks against Muslims. One likely target, according to Israeli police, was Jerusalem’s al-Aqsa Mosque—the same mosque that was targeted in 1969 (when a Christianist from Australia named Denis Michael Rohan unsuccessfully tried to destroy it by arson) and, Israeli police suspect, was a likely target in 2014 (when Adam Everett Livix, a Christianist from Texas, was arrested by Israeli police on suspicion of plotting to blow up Muslim holy sites in Jerusalem).

In 2008, Denver’s KUSA-TV (an NBC affiliate) reported that members of the Concerned Citizens had gone into hiding and that Miller hadn’t been seen in ten years.

[Aoi]

Originally Posted by Luke_Wyatt

Right I agree- the was my point to Chung when he said that had many people had guns this might not have happened, but he failed to realize this happened at a place where typically guns wouldn't be a good idea-specifically b/c of alcohol content. There are some strip clubs in Dallas that have armed Dallas police officers which is a good deterrent, I am still reading the details- I hope the club at least had metal detectors, but bottomline there's no political solution to solve this problem.
If someone is going to do a mass shooting what's really going to stop some idiot from shooting up a place?

Yes. Chung probably meant more guards. And really, a few people carrying (like the designated driver or something) might not be terrible. Studies have shown that an armed society is always a safer society. Most people who have CHLs are very well-behaved and understand/respect the law. I carry and I am extremely cautious of how I treat people when I am armed.

There is a political solution to solve the problem with Muslims -- or at least, begin a path, and that is to start monitoring people who show signs of radicalization. People need to call out Muslims if they are suspicious. However, with politics the way they are NOW, nobody is going to do that for fear of appearing "racist." (Muslim is not a fucking race) Just like Trump said, people need to be vigilant. The Bernadido shooters were identified as suspicious, but the people were too afraid to report it.

We need to stop being politically correct. Being a racist sucks, but dead people is the worst.

This is why Trump MUST become President.

[Aoi]

Originally Posted by Luke_Wyatt

Google IRA and then put your foot in your mouth- they bombed many clubs .
Here are more:
1. The Army of God

A network of violent Christianists that has been active since the early 1980s, the Army of God openly promotes killing abortion providers—and the long list of terrorists who have been active in that organization has included Paul Jennings Hill (who was executed by lethal injection in 2003 for the 1994 killings of abortion doctor John Britton and his bodyguard James Barrett), John C. Salvi (who killed two receptionists when he attacked a Planned Parenthood clinic in Brookline, Massachusetts in 1994) and Eric Rudolph, who is serving life in prison for his role in the Olympic Park bombing in Atlanta in 1996 and other terrorist acts. Rudolph, in fact, has often been exalted as a Christian hero on the Army of God’s website, as have fellow Army of God members such as Scott Roeder (who is serving life without parole for murdering Wichita, Kansas-based abortion doctor George Tiller in 2009), Shelley Shannon (who attempted to kill Tiller in 2003) and Michael Frederick Griffin (who is serving a life sentence for the 1993 killing of Dr. David Gunn, an OB-GYN, in Pensacola, Florida).

Although primarily an anti-abortion organization, the Army of God also has a history of promoting violence against gays. And one of the terrorist acts that Rudolph confessed to was bombing a lesbian bar in Atlanta in 1997.

2. Eastern Lightning, a.k.a. the Church of the Almighty God

Founded in Henan Province, China in 1990, Eastern Lightning (also known as the Church of the Almighty God or the Church of the Gospel’s Kingdom) is a Christianist cult with an end-time/apocalypse focus: Eastern Lightning believes that the world is coming to an end, and in the meantime, its duty is to slay as many demons as possible. While most Christianists have an extremely patriarchal viewpoint (much like their Islamist counterparts) and consider women inferior to men, Eastern Lightning believe that Jesus Christ will return to Earth in the form of a Chinese woman. But they are quite capable of violence against women: in May 2014, for example, members of the cult beat a 37-year-old woman named Wu Shuoyan to death in a McDonalds in Zhaoyuan, China when she refused to give them her phone number. Eastern Lightning members Zhang Lidong and his daughter, Zhang Fan, were convicted of murder for the crime and executed in February. In a 2014 interview in prison, Lidong expressed no remorse when he said of Shuoyan, “I beat her with all my might and stamped on her too. She was a demon. We had to destroy her.”

Eastern Lightning’s other acts of violence have ranged from the killing of a grammar school student in 2010 (in retaliation, police believe, for one of the child’s relatives wanting to leave the cult) to cult member Min Yongjun using a knife to attack an elderly woman and a group of schoolchildren in Chenpeng in 2012. Christian groups are not exempt from Eastern Lightning’s fanaticism: in 2002, cult members kidnapped 34 members of a Christian group called the China Gospel Fellowship and held them captive for two months in the hope of forcing them to join their cult. Although mainly active in the communist People’s Republic of China, Eastern Lighting has been trying to expand its membership in Hong Kong.


3. The Lord’s Resistance Army (LRA)

The mainstream media have had much to say about the Islamist brutality of Boko Haram, but one terrorist group they haven’t paid nearly as much attention to is the Lord’s Resistance Army—which was founded by Joseph Kony (a radical Christianist) in Uganda in 1987 and has called for the establishment of a severe Christian fundamentalist government in that country. The LRA, according to Human Rights Watch, has committed thousands of killings and kidnappings—and along the way, its terrorism spread from Uganda to parts of the Congo, the Central African Republic (CAR) and South Sudan. The word “jihadist” is seldom used in connection with the LRA, but in fact, the LRA’s tactics are not unlike those of ISIS or Boko Haram. And the governments Kony hopes to establish in Sub-Saharan Africa would implement a Christianist equivalent of Islamic Sharia law.

4. TheNational Liberation Front of Tripura

India is not only a country of Hindus and Sikhs, but also, of Muslims, Buddhists, Catholics and Protestants. Most of India’s Christians are peaceful, but a major exception is the National Liberation Front of Tripura (NLFT). Active in the state of Tripura in Northeastern India since 1989, NLFT is a paramilitary Christianist movement that hopes to secede from India and establish a Christian fundamentalist government in Tripura. NLFT has zero tolerance for any religion other than Christianity, and the group has repeatedly shown a willingness to kill, kidnap or torture Hindus who refuse to be converted to its extreme brand of Protestant fundamentalism.

In 2000, NLFT vowed to kill anyone who participated in Durga Puja (an annual Hindu festival) And in May 2003, at least 30 Hindus were murdered during one of NLFT’s killing sprees.

5. The Phineas Priesthood

White supremacist groups don’t necessarily have a religious orientation: some of them welcome atheists as long as they believe in white superiority. But the Christian Identity movement specifically combines white supremacist ideology with Christianist terrorism, arguing that violence against non-WASPs is ordained by God and that white Anglo Saxon Protestants are God’s chosen people. The modern Christian Identity movement in the U.S. has been greatly influenced by the Ku Klux Klan—an organization that has committed numerous acts of terrorism over the years—and in the 1970s, new Christian Identity groups like the Aryan Nations and the Covenant, the Sword and the Arm of the Lord (CSA) emerged. Another Christian Identity group of recent decades has been the Phineas Priesthood, whose members have been involved in violent activities ranging from abortion clinic bombings to bank robberies (mainly in the Pacific Northwest). On November 28, 2014, Phineas Priesthood member Larry Steven McQuilliams went on a violent rampage in Austin, Texas—where he fired over 100 rounds at various targets (including a federal courthouse, the local Mexican Consulate building and a police station) before being shot and killed by police.

ADVERTISEMENT

6. The Concerned Christians

One of the ironic things about some Christianists is the fact that although they believe that Jews must be converted to Christianity, they consider themselves staunch supporters of Israel. And some of them believe in violently forcing all Muslims out of Israel. The Concerned Christians, a Christianist doomsday cult that was founded by pastor Monte “Kim” Miller in Denver in the 1980s, alarmed Colorado residents when, in 1998, at least 60 of its members suddenly quit their jobs, abandoned their homes and went missing—and it turned out there was reason for concern. In 1999, Israeli officials arrested 14 members of the Concerned Christians in Jerusalem and deported them from Israel because they suspected them of plotting terrorist attacks against Muslims. One likely target, according to Israeli police, was Jerusalem’s al-Aqsa Mosque—the same mosque that was targeted in 1969 (when a Christianist from Australia named Denis Michael Rohan unsuccessfully tried to destroy it by arson) and, Israeli police suspect, was a likely target in 2014 (when Adam Everett Livix, a Christianist from Texas, was arrested by Israeli police on suspicion of plotting to blow up Muslim holy sites in Jerusalem).

In 2008, Denver’s KUSA-TV (an NBC affiliate) reported that members of the Concerned Citizens had gone into hiding and that Miller hadn’t been seen in ten years.

Oh, really? So, they did so, because they were Christians and because they were following their Bible to the letter of the scripture? Or because they were evil hate groups that use Christianity as a shield? Because, nowhere did any Christian doctrine say to kill people for thinking or behaving differently. OTOH, Muslims are specifically INSTRUCTED, to do so.

My point is that these people are not Christians. It is not a "No True Scottsman" fallacy. It's that the Bible, specifically the NT, condemns killing people for differences of opinions. Whereas, the Quran actually instructs people to do so.

Apples and oranges. BIG difference.

And, oh yeah. Remember 9/11?

Again, stop with the moral equivalence. It's bullshit. Islam is an evil fucking religion. Christianity is not.

Hitler used Christianity as propaganda to kill Jews. Was he a Christian? Nope.

How does my foot taste in your mouth?