easy solar

[timmystool]

why cant people do solar more easily? why do i need a HUGE expense and time involvement
I'm thinking 1-2 panels in your window, somewhere, tied to your fuse box/power company./

so you save something off your bill, but doing this means TONS of peolpe could do it...that would have an impact, right?

peolpe use solar chargers etc,, but this would be on your home and work all the time(cept night)
Im not talking about batteries to save solar, this is really simple... I think

[Enchanterlingum]

Solar is limited to a certain number of watts per square inch with present panel technology, which hasn't appreciably improved in 40 years. And solar being low voltage/current DC output, every inch of wire between the panel and the inverter causes more and more current and voltage loss due to the electrical resistance of wire. There is also loss given up to heat in converting it from DC to AC for your electrical use. So you are not getting anywhere near 100% efficiency with even the best of conditions using the finest equipment.

While durability and reliability of the physical panels have improved, and the cost to the consumer is way down. Deceptively so, because of tax rebates being funded by the taxpayer are offsetting a large part of the true cost. Even then, break-even cost is on the decade-level. For the average person, throwing up some panels and expecting to get something of use out of it is unrealistic. For it to have any semblance of usefulness, you will need to have both a large battery storage setup and be grid-tied in an effort to partially offset your power use that exceeds your storage capacity or the inevitable reduction in output due to weather conditions. Both are large expenses. The realistic size of battery bank that you would need for solar to be practical would fill an 6' x 8' shed. The batteries will only last 10 years and there is an environmental toll to pay with those. On the plus side, you can hang even more panels on its roof, lol.

This country fucked up when it let nuclear power become a dirty term in the 70's though scaremongering. National policy should not be set by some burned out idiot hippy yelling "No nukes." France is nearly 100% nuclear powered, and has been for decades. Several other countries are as well. And the latest gen nuclear power technology is the safest ever and yields minimal waste. It is truly the only way forward if you ever want to get out of using dead dinosaurs for fuel.

[TailHooked]

Perfect response E. Everything is spot on. Actually the most effective use of solar is to heat water for your water heater or a passive solar home heating system.
Those who think the power company will buy your power for the same price they sell to you, are also misinformed. Though their purchase price has risen, you will never have a negative bill.
Going off the grid means a very dark home. Every use must be decided. Slice of toast or an 1/2 hour of lights. TV or refrigerator. Air conditioning, forget it.

[Enchanterlingum]

I have actually looked into the air conditioning issue some several years ago when my father retired to FL and I was considering relocating there as well. I have developed a way to do AC with very low power, even as little as comes directly off of a solar panel. However, it is entirely dependent on having a home of a certain design - three sided earth contact. Think the opposite of how a car radiator works.

[BirdogKC60]

Where the world really fucked up was by allowing Edison to crush Tesla’s wireless power grid invention. As far as solar goes, it’s all about storage. We aren’t there yet, but Elon Musk is getting closer to a true super battery. If they can perfect that it’s going to change the game big time.

[TailHooked]

Well an earth contact house with a world of insulation would cut back on the heat gain into the house. I always thought if you had a underground source of water to prechill the air, you a/c load would drop. Then you could use a much smaller tonnage to cool the house. Or create an ammonia absorption unit that would heat the solution with the sun. Then you just need a pump and condenser fan motor.

[BirdogKC60]

You’re exactly right TK. I built a number of earth contact homes in the late 80’s. If designed correctly, you can reduce the required conventional A/C tonnage by about 1/3. If a separate dehumidifying system is implemented that reduces the needed tonnage down to about 1/2.

Originally Posted by TailHooked

Well an earth contact house with a world of insulation would cut back on the heat gain into the house. I always thought if you had a underground source of water to prechill the air, you a/c load would drop. Then you could use a much smaller tonnage to cool the house. Or create an ammonia absorption unit that would heat the solution with the sun. Then you just need a pump and condenser fan motor.

[Fsn57]

Grid power is too cheap here for solar to be a wise investment. In places where power is much more expensive, then solar may be a viable option. Typically, the "feel good" power (wind, solar, etc.) is very expensive power and can't produce large amounts of power to match nuclear, coal, etc at anything close to competitive pricing.

[timmystool]

Originally Posted by Enchanterlingum

While durability and reliability of the physical panels have improved, and the cost to the consumer is way down. Deceptively so, because of tax rebates being funded by the taxpayer are offsetting a large part of the true cost. Even then, break-even cost is on the decade-level. For the average person, throwing up some panels and expecting to get something of use out of it is unrealistic. For it to have any semblance of usefulness, you will need to have both a large battery storage setup and be grid-tied in an effort to partially offset your power use that exceeds your storage capacity or the inevitable reduction in output due to weather conditions. Both are large expenses. The realistic size of battery bank that you would need for solar to be practical would fill an 6' x 8' shed. The batteries will only last 10 years and there is an environmental toll to pay with those. On the plus side, you can hang even more panels on its roof, .

right
that's why a little panel, that would get solar energy, and use it or transmit to the grid is what I'm talking about
if it were EASIER to do small panels and then we couold get LOTS of people using them and that would have some effect


shit
my HOA is mowing the grass, AGAIN


]ok lets just stop cuting grass once a weeek and let grass grow, clean the air,

[timmystool]

Originally Posted by Fsn57

Grid power is too cheap here for solar to be a wise investment. In places where power is much more expensive, then solar may be a viable option.

I got one neighbor, huge house, with 3-4 large solar arrays on his house


but Im thiknking an easy to install panel, to help your house, then if everyone did that, those numbers would add up and make some kinda difference

[TailHooked]

But in order to get your scenario, you would have to invest in all the power inverters, solar panels, transfer switches,meter box to connect to the grid, some wiring, etc., etc. to get literally a drop in the bucket. I know drops add up to a bucket eventually. That drop would cost you a fortune. Plus this stuff needs maintenance to keep it working . Try this scenario we all know. You meet a girl you like. You first meet for coffee. Then maybe a lunch. Maybe dinner and a movie another night. Throw in some flowers or something. You have just invested a lot of money to maybe get laid. Or you could just go here and pick a girl you like for a 80% discount. You will get laid.
Solar might be good to keep your boat battery charged or some night lighting working on the cheap. It will not in my lifetime be affordable to help out with this countries energy needs.

[Fsn57]

Originally Posted by timmystool

I got one neighbor, huge house, with 3-4 large solar arrays on his house

It costs him more for his solar setup than if he bought it off the grid. Just because it isn't economical doesn't mean people won't spend money on it.

Originally Posted by timmystool

but Im thiknking an easy to install panel, to help your house, then if everyone did that, those numbers would add up and make some kinda difference

Not really. If everyone did a little, it would add up to a little more. The total amount if everyone did it wouldn't significantly change the power requirements of any utility in the continental US.


Its hard to beat the economies of scale of more efficient power sources such as nuclear, coal, natural gas, etc. in the US.



Feel good power is like masturbating...to quote Sidney Poitier in "To Sir, With Love"..."it feels good, but it doesn't produce life"

[JRLawrence]

Originally Posted by Enchanterlingum

..........

While durability and reliability of the physical panels have improved, and the cost to the consumer is way down. Deceptively so, because of tax rebates being funded by the taxpayer are offsetting a large part of the true cost. Even then, break-even cost is on the decade-level. For the average person, throwing up some panels and expecting to get something of use out of it is unrealistic. For it to have any semblance of usefulness, you will need to have both a large battery storage setup and be grid-tied in an effort to partially offset your power use that exceeds your storage capacity or the inevitable reduction in output due to weather conditions. Both are large expenses. The realistic size of battery bank that you would need for solar to be practical would fill an 6' x 8' shed. The batteries will only last 10 years and there is an environmental toll to pay with those. On the plus side, you can hang even more panels on its roof, lol.

This country fucked up when it let nuclear power become a dirty term in the 70's though scaremongering. National policy should not be set by some burned out idiot hippy yelling "No nukes." France is nearly 100% nuclear powered, and has been for decades. Several other countries are as well. And the latest gen nuclear power technology is the safest ever and yields minimal waste. It is truly the only way forward if you ever want to get out of using dead dinosaurs for fuel.

VERY GOOD POST.

Aside:
I got a quote from a supplier several years ago: KCPL was giving a great rebate for the purchase of a system.
But: The installer was a rip off. Gave a huge cost for installation that KCPL would notl have matched. Promised tax refunds on the total system, not the price I would pay after KCPL. Not gonna happen. Promised German units, but in the contract it said they could supply any unit that was available at the time. ie. Cheap Chinese Crap (u know CCC stuff): Trump knows about China. Throw the bastards out. They were going to put concrete blocks on the roof to hold it down. What? Not for a $70K system.

In the end, I didn't purchase. A big rip off.

[JRLawrence]

Originally Posted by TailHooked

Well an earth contact house with a world of insulation would cut back on the heat gain into the house. I always thought if you had a underground source of water to prechill the air, you a/c load would drop. Then you could use a much smaller tonnage to cool the house. Or create an ammonia absorption unit that would heat the solution with the sun. Then you just need a pump and condenser fan motor.

Buy a house with some big trees around it. A big shade tree takes a lot of heat away from the house. I saw some big figures even 40 years ago before the heat/pump and ground source cooling units.

[timmystool]

Originally Posted by JRLawrence

Buy a house with some big trees around it. A big shade tree takes a lot of heat away from the house. I saw some big figures even 40 years ago before the heat/pump and ground source cooling units.

truth here
I live in a condo/duplex;wedged between 2 other units
no direct light hits me cept the back/front, sorta and since getting tinted windows/heavy curtains. my place is cheap to heat/cool