Why Do Liberals Hate Patriotic Symbols?

[Sa_artman]

Originally Posted by bigtex

All liberals are not Jane Fonda. Just as all conservatives are not Glenn Beck.

I should not have to remind you that there are extremists on both sides of the political spectrum! A huge percentage of us are somewhere in between. I know I am. I am not sure about you!

I get the feeling this is the type of Patriot IBHankering supports:


Do you keep your Turner Diaries wrapped in an American flag IBHankering?

[datyking]

Originally Posted by bigtex

I did! Quite frankly, there was not much mention of political persuasion by those in my unit! Of course, I do recognize that was a different time and a different era!

Back in the late 60's and early 70's it was pretty basic. We all had a job to do and we did it to the best of our ability! Itr really did not matter whether the guy standing next to was a liberal or conservative. All that seemed to matter was whether he properly carried out his orders and I carried out mine.

See I told you it was fairly basic!

By the way my friend, I have more respect for you than you would ever know. It was a trajedy to see how most Nam vets were treated by the left when they came home.
My point was refering to those not drafted in the last 30 years which would make them voluntary armed forces. Polls have consistently showed an extemely high majority vote conservative

[Guest040616]

Originally Posted by datyking

By the way my friend, I have more respect for you than you would ever know. It was a trajedy to see how most Nam vets were treated by the left when they came home.
My point was refering to those not drafted in the last 30 years which would make them voluntary armed forces. Polls have consistently showed an extemely high majority vote conservative

Thank you for the kind words.

The treatment did not begin and end with the "left." I knew quite a few returning Vets who had difficulties seeking job opportunities. While potential employers would not say it openly, the business community had concerns regarding potential financial liabilities.

[I B Hankering]

Originally Posted by Sa_artman

I get the feeling this is the type of Patriot IBHankering supports:


Do you keep your Turner Diaries wrapped in an American flag IBHankering?

My flag was given to me when I retired from the Army, and it is not being used as a “wrapper” for anything. Instead—when it is not properly folded and stored out the elements—it proudly waves from a pole in front of my house on national holidays. These are conventions I do not expect you will either appreciate or understand.

BTW, I do not have that book. So you are “0 – 3”. You better call Miss Cleo and get your money back.

Here are a couple more “liberals” for you to mull over. Ayers and Dohrn, as members of the “Weatherman” terrorist group, they advocated the violent overthrow of the government. Instead of now biding their time in prison, they have become friends, associates and supporters of the “Anointed One”. Ayers’ personal pantheon of heroes include, Mao Tse-tung, Fidel Castro and Che Guevara.

Aesop's Moral: A man is known by the company he keeps. Sorry, just offering cold, hard facts that have nothing to do teleprompters or golf.

[Jdriller]

"EUGENE -- The Eugene City Council voted 6-2 to recite the Pledge of Allegiance at four meetings each year close to patriotic holidays: Memorial Day, Veterans Day, Flag Day and the Fourth of July.

It was a compromise after Councilor Mike Clark suggested that the pledge be recited at the start of each regular meeting.

The Register Guard reports the council also decided on a 7-1 vote Monday to endorse a resolution that funds for wars in Iraq and Afghanistan should be redirected to domestic needs.

Eugene Mayor Kitty Piercy sponsored a similar anti-war resolution that won support at last week's Conference of Mayors meeting in Baltimore. "

I see no reference in the article about the words "under God". At lease they are agreeing to say the pledge. (I guess they don't have to at all....so they are being patriotic because they voluntarily agreed to recite the pledge). Even if they did delete the words under God...the original Pledge did not contain those words. (that was added around 1954) However, use of the words under God, does not establish by a government entity...a religion. At least a particular religion, like Christianity, or Muslim or Budism or whatever. All religions in general believe in a "God", just with different names. God is like a generic name for God. It does make you a Catholic, Baptist, Methodist or any other particular religious party. I would think the entent of the ban on government establishment of a religion per the Constitution is not being violated by the use of the term "God". On the other hand banning the use of the term "God" does infringe on my constitution right to believe and say what I believe about religion. Use of the term "God" does not force anyone who does not believe in a "God" to adhere to any particular religion. Use of the term in the Pledge,was added in 1954 (remember the times, ultra conservatism, McCarty witch hunts, Communist fears, and all that stuff. Maybe those types were the ones who had the words artificially added to the Pledge. Personally, we are all better off believing in a God, no matter his name. Most religions have more in common than not in common, and in my opinion the differences are for the most part more related to rituals practiced. But in the end, most believe in no killing, no adultry, no stealing, and so forth. Pretty much all have some version of the 10 Comandments, the Flood, and so on. As far as voting an anti war resolution to have money spend on Irag, Afghanistan to be used for domestic issues....I don't think that is a liberal or conservative statement. I know plenty of Conservative ( at least one who is running for President as a Republican and who is very conservative) who think we need to be out of there and plenty of liberal who support the war. Their vote for the resolution is meaningless anyway as the have NO POWER, no say in what the Federal government spends money on anyway. I am not a Republican nor a Democrate, nor a conservative, nor a liberal. I lean towards conservative opinions on some issues and liberal on other issues.

[I B Hankering]

Originally Posted by bigtex

Thank you for the kind words.

The treatment did not begin and end with the "left." I knew quite a few returning Vets who had difficulties seeking job opportunities. While potential employers would not say it openly, the business community had concerns regarding potential financial liabilities.

As a veteran, I would never deprecate the service of another veteran. I went in in '72, but never served in Vietnam. My war came much latter.

[Guest040616]

Originally Posted by datyking

Polls have consistently showed an extemely high majority vote conservative

Point well taken but I believe you are using "conservative" out of context. The fact the military tends to vote for Republican candidates does not necessarily translate into them being "conservative." It will be interesting to see what the armed forces vote will be in the next few election cycles. I believe the reason the armed forces vote has trended Republican during the post Vietnam War era was due to the general perception that Republican Administration's were better stewards of national security concerns. And quite frankly they probably were, until the spring of 2003!

I do not necessarily believe that it was because soldiers vote conservative. That might be the case with American workers who have a tendency to vote pocketbook issues first. On the other hand, American servicemen and women vote national security first and foremost. If servicemen were as concerned with pocketbook issues they would not be in the military in the first place.

It is quite possible the national security perception might be shifting as we speak. I do not believe there are many of our servicemen who now feel the Republicans handled either al Qaeda or Iraq in their best interest. Despite 7 years in Afghanistan and 5 1/2 years in Iraq, no American victory on either front was in sight when GW left office.

Under the current Administration's watch, America has dramatically reduced our casualties in Iraq while significantly drawing down the troops. Meanwhile, Iraqi citizens have much more control over their destiny than 30 months ago. On another front, American troops have recently dealt several decisive blows against al Qaeda's forces in Afghanistan/Pakistan. Huge advantage, USA on both fronts!

These are the facts and they are virtually indisputable! I strongly believe, a higher percentage of our armed forces will seriously consider voting for Obama in next years election as opposed to 2008.

Just sayin'

Originally Posted by I B Hankering

As a veteran, I would never deprecate the service of another veteran. I went in in '72, but never served in Vietnam. My war came much latter.

And I honor your service, as well! <salute>

[cptjohnstone]

Originally Posted by bigtex

5 1/2 years in Iraq, no American victory on either front was in sight when the GW left office.

Under the current Administration's watch, America has dramatically reduced our casualties in Iraq while significantly drawing down the troops. Meanwhile, Iraqi citizens have much more control over their destiny than 30 months ago. On another front, American troops have recently dealt several decisive blows against al Qaeda's forces in Afghanistan/Pakistan. Huge advantage, USA on both fronts!

These are the facts and they are virtually indisputable! I strongly believe, a higher percentage of our armed forces will seriously consider voting for Obama in next years election as opposed to 2008.

Just sayin'



And I honor your service, as well! <salute>

I like IB missed Vietnam by one year hence cpt but I was ready to go

1. the war was over before GW left office after his "surge"

2. Iraq is now a democracy because of GW and now look at all the other middle east countries wanting the same

3. Facts? see above

[Guest040616]

Originally Posted by cptjohnstone

I like IB missed Vietnam by one year hence cpt but I was ready to go

1. the war was over before GW left office after his "surge"

2. Iraq is now a democracy because of GW and now look at all the other middle east countries wanting the same

3. Facts? see above

And my response to that would be that America's War on Terror was never in Iraq. From the beginnning, it was centered in Afghanistan/Pakistan and it remains there today, not Iraq. During the build up to the spring 2003 invasion, the primary reason given by the Bush Administration for an ill advised invasion of Iraq was "Weapons of Mass Destruction." After 9 long years and literally thousands upon thousands of American casualties, we have yet to find the first WMD in Iraq. Bottom line: The Bush Administration lost their focus upon our real enemy, the perpetrators of 9/11, during the spring of 2003 when they invaded Iraq. And unfortunately, because of the quagmire that developed in Iraq shortly thereafter, the Bush Administration was never able to regain focus upon the perpetrators of 9/11!

Had GW maintained focus upon the real, versus imagined enemy, OBL might have been killed long before Bush left office. GW would have been a hero and rightly so! You can sugarcoat this all you want, but the fact remains that the current Administration placed significantly more emphasis upon conquering our real enemies (OBL, al Qaeda and the Taliban) than the Bush Administration. As a result of the increased emphasis, the acknowledged leader of our real enemy, (OBL) now "sleeps with the fishes."

And yes, the facts are indisputable!

[Sa_artman]

Originally Posted by I B Hankering

My flag was given to me when I retired from the Army, and it is not being used as a “wrapper” for anything. Instead—when it is not properly folded and stored out the elements—it proudly waves from a pole in front of my house on national holidays. These are conventions I do not expect you will either appreciate or understand.

So having a flag on your front yard gives you a right to hate our government? I did my tour as well and I bet I've done more for this country than your bitching and whining. I deal with veterans all day, real veterans, and most would bitch slap you for your whining. They don't give a crap about your supposed conspiracies, they just want real solutions. You conspiracy freaks are the poison of this country. Stop trying to hide your extremism behind the flag and patriotism. It's bullshit. Right wing or leftist extremist, your the same.

[Guest040616]

Originally Posted by I B Hankering

Here are a couple more “liberals” for you to mull over. Ayers and Dohrn, as members of the “Weatherman” terrorist group, they advocated the violent overthrow of the government.

I can not speak with any degree of certainty that Ayers and Dohrn are actually "liberals." Quite frankly, I do not recall either. But let's assume for a moment that you are correct in categorizing them as "liberals." If so, they no more represent the average "liberal" view in America than Jared Loughner, David Koresh and Timothy McVeigh represent the average "conservative" view in America. They are all on the fringe, whether it be Far Left fringe or Far Right Fringe. If you recall, that is exactly the point I originally made, "there are extremists on both sides of the political spectrum."

In my original response about Jane Fonda, (whom I do remember) I chose not to mention Loughner, Koresh or McVeigh. Instead I mentioned Glenn Beck. I believe extremists commentators like Beck and Limbaugh represent a greater threat to America's freedom than Ayers, Dohrn, Loughner, McVeigh or Koresh. If for no other reason than they have a huge following.

With the possible exception of a select few followers, nobody really pays attention to the lunatic fringe players, such as Ayers, Dohrn, Loughner, McVeigh or Koresh. However, people do listen to Beck and Limbaugh. Why? Wecause Beck and Limbaugh have a national media audience. In truth, they are entertainers who try to pass themselves off as legitimate news commentators. Unfortunately there are those who are ignorant enough to take Beck's and Limbaugh's brand of entertainment as factual information. At the end of the day, the only thing that really matters to an entertainer is higher ratings.

In short, higher ratings equals huge $$$$$ to entertainers like Beck and Limbaugh! I suspect they laugh at the ignorant all the way to the bank!

[Guest050715-1]

Has anyone noticed the banner for Discrete Cougars on the top of every page? The only word that is not capitalized is America.

My ex husband was a condescending liberal. We actually got into a fight once because I made my daughter stop walking around and talking to my ex, put her hand over her heart and face the flag during the National Anthem. Such things he considered old fashioned and beneath his deep thinking self.

No, I do not believe that those on the liberal side of the fence are less patriotic. I believe they, like the religious-right, are snobbish in their knowledge that they are correct, and that they are contemptuous of all that they consider provincial.

[I B Hankering]

Originally Posted by OliviaHoward

Has anyone noticed the banner for Discrete Cougars on the top of every page? The only word that is not capitalized is America.

My ex husband was a condescending liberal. We actually got into a fight once because I made my daughter stop walking around and talking to my ex, put her hand over her heart and face the flag during the National Anthem. Such things he considered old fashioned and beneath his deep thinking self.

No, I do not believe that those on the liberal side of the fence are less patriotic. I believe they, like the religious-right, are snobbish in their knowledge that they are correct, and that they are contemptuous of all that they consider provincial.

+1

Sa_artman, are you listening?

[drgris]

Originally Posted by datyking

Whether you like it or not, most liberals and I say most, are not proud of our nation and would prefer a socialistic approach. The concept of Social Eutopia is engrained in there head. Let me prove my point. Do you think more liberals sign up to go to war or do you think more conservatives sign up to go to war to protect or liberties. I already think you know the answer to this one!

Going by my unit in the 70's and by the students we have at our high school who are enlisting, I've observed that many are signing up due to economic status more than conservative/liberal idealism.
I don't know if I'm a liberal or a conservative, my beliefs are all over the place.
I flippin' hate labels anyway.

[Whirlaway]

Why?

Because symbols are a sign of unity and collective community values.

Liberals are frigtened by such thoughts - they think of patriotic America as a collection of small town idiots who are truck driving racists, right wing religious fanatics, who are both armed and jingoistic. People who love America because they are stupid and unemployed (Obama's view).

Here's Obama's view of America:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTxXUufI3jA