The Second American Civil War is here

[Old-T]

Originally Posted by Agent220

The justice system may not be rigged in theory though in actual practice, there is high levels of bias in criminal justice from the attorney you have, the type of judge you have and a statistic that minorities serve 20% longer sentences than whites even with a similar criminal history.

This new phase of racially motivated calls for the police for stupid stuff has got to stop before someome dies by a cop or even worse, a person in need of actual help is killed by the police.

Agree in part, disagree in part.

Yes, my results in the justice system depend upon the lawyer you can afford. As does the health care I receive, the reliability of the car I drive, and the quality of the food I can afford. In a capitalist system, having more money is an advantage in most everything. I do not see that as "wrong" unless you change the entire assumption about the country.

I also agree legal outcomes do depend upon the judge you get--and this can be good or bad in either direction--some are far to harsh, some are far too lenient. I think the sentencing differences are real, and I am not sure how you correct that without taking all judgement out of the picture--and that leads to abuses that are just as bad. The law will always have extenuating circumstances that need judgement.


The part that angers me the most are the people who are emboldened by the Trump rhetoric to make crank calls to police. I would start by charging people for making spurious police calls just as people are charged for 911 ambulance calls. In theory I want to see something like that instituted, but there too I do not know how to avoid the abuses that could come with it. Idiots/bigots should not be allowed to grossly waste police resources with impunity.

[pussycat]

Originally Posted by txdot-guy

This is the kind of statement that really pisses me off. The vast majority of US Citizens pay their taxes on time and in full. Just because you can criminally hide your income from the IRS doesn't mean that you shouldn't go to jail for it.


If you don't like our tax code we should try to elect some representatives that
1: Avoid taking money from corporations and big money donors.
2: Put the ordinary citizen ahead of corporate interests.
3: Have the courage to raise taxes on the rich and the poor.
4: Have the courage to cut expenses while raising revenue.


The only way we can solve many of our issues is to have reasonable discussions about policy and be willing to do things that are politically bad for both sides, both cut spending and raise taxes. Any politician that would do that is one that I would respect.

Manefort paid all the taxes he owed for income made in the United States.

He was convicted of not reporting income he made outside of the United States and never brought back into the United States. He paid taxes on it in the countries in which it was made.

Apple keeps hundreds of billions in foreign income outside of the US and doesn't pay taxes on it until it's brought into the US.

THATS NOT FAIR

[pussycat]

Originally Posted by Old-T

Agree in part, disagree in part.

Yes, my results in the justice system depend upon the lawyer you can afford. As does the health care I receive, the reliability of the car I drive, and the quality of the food I can afford. In a capitalist system, having more money is an advantage in most everything. I do not see that as "wrong" unless you change the entire assumption about the country.

I also agree legal outcomes do depend upon the judge you get--and this can be good or bad in either direction--some are far to harsh, some are far too lenient. I think the sentencing differences are real, and I am not sure how you correct that without taking all judgement out of the picture--and that leads to abuses that are just as bad. The law will always have extenuating circumstances that need judgement.


The part that angers me the most are the people who are emboldened by the Trump rhetoric to make crank calls to police. I would start by charging people for making spurious police calls just as people are charged for 911 ambulance calls. In theory I want to see something like that instituted, but there too I do not know how to avoid the abuses that could come with it. Idiots/bigots should not be allowed to grossly waste police resources with impunity.

In my experience most judges in Texas are very biased and rule which ever way they like depending on whether they like you or not. If you look like a church goer or member of their lodge then they give you a pass. If you look like an oddball or rebel they will nail you every time.

[pussycat]

Originally Posted by Agent220

Pussycat,

At the end of the day, this falls at the presidents' doorstep because he hired these people.

As much as Conseratives are "appalled" at Obama and made his life in the presidency one of the most obstructed in his time as a two term leader, they should be disgusted with the fact that numerous people close to Chump are not only been indicted but are being found guilty amongst a jury of their peers for crimes committed.

Obama had his faults especially on international affairs regarding guns and the drone program but this is getting outrageous.

If you were to have hired a prosecutor and investigated everyone around Obama and questioned them you would also have found most of them would make an untrue statement to the FBI or have not reported foreign income.

If it were not for the special prosecutor and his phony investigation none of these fine people would have been culpable of anything, and the convictions so far are all for inconsiderate and common offenses.

Trump must pardon them all because they were all prosecuted improperly. Muller is ONLY supposed to be prosecuting crimes committed in conjunction with foreign governments and not investigating tax evasion LOL. It's a joke and so is he. Furthermore he should be indicted for prosecutorial misconduct and sent to the prison where he belongs.

[Yssup Rider]

upon what evidence are you basing that claim, pussycat?

[MactheKat]

Originally Posted by pussycat

Manefort paid all the taxes he owed for income made in the United States.

He was convicted of not reporting income he made outside of the United States and never brought back into the United States. He paid taxes on it in the countries in which it was made.

Apple keeps hundreds of billions in foreign income outside of the US and doesn't pay taxes on it until it's brought into the US.

THATS NOT FAIR

Manefort is an individual. An individual pays income tax on worldwide income. If you paid tax on the same income in a foreign country you might get a credit that offsets the double taxed income.

The rules are different for a corporation. Corporations can avoid declaring offshore income and can delay paying tax on offshore income under certain circumstances.

It is very complicated.

[Yssup Rider]

And Manafort is a eight time convicted felon.

[pussycat]

Just as I've said now the Left has gone full crazy mode. Now they've realized that their "Russian collusion" and "obstruction of justice" fantasies have collapsed their desperation has led them to pure fabrication about Trump's mentality.

He's broken no laws and hasn't even initiated any irrational policies. Yet now the recent NYT "Op-Ed Anonymous" screed and the Bob Woodward fantasy comic book is claiming that the President is an irrational madman whose insane impulses must be checked by his staff, who are acting to "maintain democracy."

Read the NYT "Anonymous" screed and you'll see it's author clearly states that he and others are "opposed to Trump's agenda." Opposed to Trump's agenda? So this isn't really about irrationality or mental fitness but is about policy....isn't it.

Trump doesn't comport himself to standards of civility or even maturity in his comments or statements. He's a product of changes in the culture. Twenty years ago he never would have spoken or conducted himself this way. He's using the technology and venacular of this time, and that's why he succeeded.

As for policies, his actions have been completely rational and well conducted. He is seeking detente with Russia and North Korea, and therefore is creating positive atmospherics with their leaders as is the case with all such diplomatic initiatives REGARDLESS OF THOSE LEADERS' UNDERSTOOD OUTRAGES. When Nixon visited the USSR and China he smiled and raised toasts with the leaders of those nations regardless of his personal hatred of them or their outrageous behaviors. As for the "NATO allies" they have no choice but to be our allies and we don't need to be praising them at all. Rationality dictates that we criticize them to get them into line with our positions. If they don't like it what are they going to do, leave? Hell no. Trump is a practiced negotiator if nothing else, and he's completely rational in his approach to these parties. The cries of the establishment that he should be doing the opposite, praising our allies when it's completely unnecessary and badgering Putin and Kim in diplomacy, illustrates that his critics will claim anything that he does is wrong no matter how reasonable his actions are.

So far we haven't seen anything dangerous or irrational from him. He's retaliating against trade partners for decades of unfair practices they've conducted against ourselves, withdrawn from the ruinous Paris Climate Accords, bitch slapped the terrorists of the Palestinian organizations, moved our Embassy there to Jerusalem, seeks detente with Russia and the North Koreans, is enforcing immigration laws, passed tax reform, and has dissolved idiotic regulations and the mandate for citizens to buy health insurance from private companies.

That's a lot!

That's not the picture of a "White House in Chaos."

In 1963 we had a President named John Kennedy who was similarly vigorous and opposed the "deep state" and they also formed cells and cliques within the government to clandestinely oppose his agenda. Although the public didn't know it these individuals were aware of his outrageous sexual antics and wreckless habits. Because of this they came to an agreement among themselves that he was "unfit for office." Eventually they saw an opportunity to assassinate him, an opportunity made possible by the agreement of the Vice President to cover up the assassination once conducted. With that agreement a plan went ahead to stage a coup and by November 23 of 1963 America had a new President and the agenda of the former one was brought violently to an end.

I don't think these weenies in the establishment have the sand to kill Trump, and even they think the stakes are not high enough to warrant that. But it's all the same that you have a disgruntled and unhappy class of bureaucrats and their politician and business cohorts who are trying to reverse the outcome of a Presidential election because they despise the personality and comportment of the victor.

[SpeedRacerXXX]

Slight difference of opinion. The only "success" in Trump's 20 months in office has been tax reform, which we all know favored the rich and corporations and gave little relief to the middle of the middle class.

So far he has done little that has positively affected trade policies. The trade tariffs have raised the price of many goods for consumers and have done little positive --yet. Whether withdrawing from the Paris Accord is good or bad depends on who you ask. I think it is bad. I think moving the U.S. embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem is not a positive. Certainly seeking détente with Russia and N.K. is a good move but there has been absolutely no success yet regarding that. Doing away with Obama's environmental regulations is also positive or negative depending on one's viewpoint. Obviously Trump does not care about environmental concerns. Finally, Trump lost on his promise to repeal and replace Obamacare. Obamacare, as I've often said, certainly has its problems but the Republicans had almost 8 years to come up with a better alternative and failed to do so. The proposed Trumpcare was far worse.

I am not someone who thinks Trump was lucky to become POTUS and I see no reason to impeach him. 8 weeks from today voters will go to cast their votes and let people in this country, and countries throughout the world, what they think of Trump thus far since mid-term elections are a referendum on the sitting POTUS. My current position is Democrats will win back the House and Trump's agenda will be virtually stalled, much as Obama's agenda was stalled once Republicans took control of the House, and then the Senate.

[Austin Ellen]

correct me if I'm wrong Speedracer, but Trump has gotton further with North Korea then any other President.

[Little Monster]

Originally Posted by pussycat

Just as I've said now the Left has gone full crazy mode. Now they've realized that their "Russian collusion" and "obstruction of justice" fantasies have collapsed their desperation has led them to pure fabrication about Trump's mentality.

WRONG!! Trumps behavior has led to accurate accusations about his mentality. He has been proven to lie over 80% of the time, but keep telling yourself that it's all "fabrication"

He's broken no laws and hasn't even initiated any irrational policies.

Really??? so you would consider yanking kids & infants from their parents a "rational" policy?? intersting

Yet now the recent NYT "Op-Ed Anonymous" screed and the Bob Woodward fantasy comic book is claiming that the President is an irrational madman whose insane impulses must be checked by his staff, who are acting to "maintain democracy."

Ok, Woodward's book just barely came out today.
And here you are calling a book which you have never even read a "fantasy comic book". Do you always judge things which you know jack shit about. Don't even bother cause I already know the answer. Typical Asshole supporter right here. The fact that Asshole was already screeching "lies", and "fake news" before the book even hit the news stands reeks of a guilty conscience. And second you speak as if you know more than the people who have actually worked under this nut job. Once again typical biased Asshole supporter. You suck at this dude!!

Read the NYT "Anonymous" screed and you'll see it's author clearly states that he and others are "opposed to Trump's agenda." Opposed to Trump's agenda? So this isn't really about irrationality or mental fitness but is about policy....isn't it.

Trump doesn't comport himself to standards of civility or even maturity in his comments or statements. He's a product of changes in the culture. Twenty years ago he never would have spoken or conducted himself this way. He's using the technology and venacular of this time, and that's why he succeeded.

WRONG!! He succeeded because the Bernie Sanders supporters stayed home on election night nothing more. And yet the dumbass still lost the popular vote. That will not be the case in 2020, so enjoy the next two years, because they will go by very quickly

As for policies, his actions have been completely rational and well conducted.

Once again, You consider taking innocent kids away from their parents, rather than focusing on the true criminals "rational"??? Wow.

He is seeking detente with Russia and North Korea, and therefore is creating positive atmospherics with their leaders as is the case with all such diplomatic initiatives REGARDLESS OF THOSE LEADERS' UNDERSTOOD OUTRAGES. When Nixon visited the USSR and China he smiled and raised toasts with the leaders of those nations regardless of his personal hatred of them or their outrageous behaviors.

Yep, and how did Nixon's presidency end???? LMFAO!!!! Damn this is way too easy.

As for the "NATO allies" they have no choice but to be our allies and we don't need to be praising them at all. Rationality dictates that we criticize them to get them into line with our positions. If they don't like it what are they going to do, leave? Hell no. Trump is a practiced negotiator if nothing else, and he's completely rational in his approach to these parties.

And how many of Assholes business ventures have failed?? "Practiced Negotiator"....

The cries of the establishment that he should be doing the opposite, praising our allies when it's completely unnecessary and badgering Putin and Kim in diplomacy, illustrates that his critics will claim anything that he does is wrong no matter how reasonable his actions are.


Yep, and we will continue to call his ass out every time he tries to alienate us from our closest & true allies, and then turns around and tries to buddy up with Authoritarian leaders who hate us.

So far we haven't seen anything dangerous or irrational from him.



He's retaliating against trade partners for decades of unfair practices they've conducted against ourselves, withdrawn from the ruinous Paris Climate Accords, bitch slapped the terrorists of the Palestinian organizations, moved our Embassy there to Jerusalem,

The Israelis are by far the true terrorists in regards to the Palestinian affairs.

seeks detente with Russia and the North Koreans, is enforcing immigration laws, passed tax reform, and has dissolved idiotic regulations and the mandate for citizens to buy health insurance from private companies.

Wow, there's actually something in this joke of a post I agree with you about. I am so glad that I will no longer have to pay a stiff penalty every year anymore, so yes thank you Mr. Trump

That's a lot!

That's not the picture of a "White House in Chaos."

In 1963 we had a President named John Kennedy who was similarly vigorous and opposed the "deep state" and they also formed cells and cliques within the government to clandestinely oppose his agenda. Although the public didn't know it these individuals were aware of his outrageous sexual antics and wreckless habits. Because of this they came to an agreement among themselves that he was "unfit for office." Eventually they saw an opportunity to assassinate him, an opportunity made possible by the agreement of the Vice President to cover up the assassination once conducted. With that agreement a plan went ahead to stage a coup and by November 23 of 1963 America had a new President and the agenda of the former one was brought violently to an end.

I don't think these weenies in the establishment have the sand to kill Trump, and even they think the stakes are not high enough to warrant that. But it's all the same that you have a disgruntled and unhappy class of bureaucrats and their politician and business cohorts who are trying to reverse the outcome of a Presidential election because they despise the personality and comportment of the victor.

Wow man. you're having to go all the way back to 1963 to try and defend this Asshole?? Reaching a little far aren't we?? But that's ok, there's a reason the Asshole supporters have gotten their asses handed to them in almost every special election, in their own backyards since this mentally unstable nut job took office. NUFF. SAID.

[winn dixie]

Damn, LM . Is there a cliffs note version to your post above? lol

[Little Monster]

Originally Posted by winn dixie

Damn, LM . Is there a cliffs note version to your post above? lol

Well, I kinda feel bad. When you have a degree in political science, debating a Trump supporter is like debating a 5th grader. When I go up against them I almost feel like I'm cheating.

[DragonX]

Originally Posted by Little Monster

Well, I kinda feel bad. When you have a degree in political science, debating a Trump supporter is like debating a 5th grader. When I go up against them I almost feel like I'm cheating.

Come on LM, degree or not I don't see any facts to back up what you are retorting against just the typical name calling and sleighing. I am certainly not a 5th grader yet here we go.

At the same time I see you pointing out separating families. While it is sad and we need to go after the "real criminals".....um being here undocumented is ILLEGAL last I checked. What part of that does NO ONE understand? It's not undocumented as the media likes to use it's ILLEGAL.

As a humane I think it is a bummer to separate families, but as a citizen of the United States it is the law of the land.

I am sorry I did not mean to sell that kilo to my friend, he was just feeling bad - ILLEGAL

I am sorry I did not mean to plant drugs on your person because I know deep down you are a drug dealer but that was the only way I could prove it - ILLEGAL action by LE and fruit of the poison tree.

Now if we look at your argument at face value, we see where I fall. At the same time I will agree to the assumption that it is a bitch to get legal status, I believe that should be streamlined and made readily available to all who want to seek it. Also I agree that there may be some less than stellar interaction with regard to an immigrants status such as getting hassled until proof of facts are available.

DragonX

[pussycat]

Originally Posted by SpeedRacerXXX

Slight difference of opinion. The only "success" in Trump's 20 months in office has been tax reform, which we all know favored the rich and corporations and gave little relief to the middle of the middle class.

So far he has done little that has positively affected trade policies. The trade tariffs have raised the price of many goods for consumers and have done little positive --yet. Whether withdrawing from the Paris Accord is good or bad depends on who you ask. I think it is bad. I think moving the U.S. embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem is not a positive. Certainly seeking détente with Russia and N.K. is a good move but there has been absolutely no success yet regarding that. Doing away with Obama's environmental regulations is also positive or negative depending on one's viewpoint. Obviously Trump does not care about environmental concerns. Finally, Trump lost on his promise to repeal and replace Obamacare. Obamacare, as I've often said, certainly has its problems but the Republicans had almost 8 years to come up with a better alternative and failed to do so. The proposed Trumpcare was far worse.

I am not someone who thinks Trump was lucky to become POTUS and I see no reason to impeach him. 8 weeks from today voters will go to cast their votes and let people in this country, and countries throughout the world, what they think of Trump thus far since mid-term elections are a referendum on the sitting POTUS. My current position is Democrats will win back the House and Trump's agenda will be virtually stalled, much as Obama's agenda was stalled once Republicans took control of the House, and then the Senate.

Little he's done "positively?" People can disagree about his choice of Supreme Court nominees or what his trade or immigration policies are. Those are politic and ideological disagreements. But my point is that all these actions have been carried out. They have happened. There is no chaos in the White House. There is no madman acting irrationally.

I remember in 1993 "60 Minutes" had a segment about the "chaos" within the Clinton Administration. Scores of people in his Administration were leaking to the media their dismay that there was no coherent organization of anything. They complained that working there was like attending a graduate seminar in policy analysis where everyone spend countless hours studying an issue and thereafter the President would just smile and say thank you and never act on anything.

As for fitness the most clearly unfit and dangerous President was George W. Bush. He clearly did not have the experience, intelligence or even temperament to be President. He launched a war in Afghanistan that FAILED. We never got a surrender agreement from them and they were never defeated. The same for Iraq. No "mission accomplished" there either. There was no surrender from the government there and America's stupid stated goal was to kill the top fifty members of their government so they went to ground and continued fighting forever. Bush was an idiot, failed in every business or enterprise he ever had anything to do except baseball. Did you hear anyone pointing that out at the time? Hell no. And he mismanaged every other aspect of the economy as well.

As for the tariffs, during the eight years of Obama we lost over 50,000 manufacturing jobs. In the last eighteen months we've regained 200,000 manufacturing jobs. Look at the business press and you'll see US companies are leaving China in droves. Much of this has to do with the venal nature of the Chinese themselves, and rising wages there. But much of it is the tariffs.

Have farmers been hurt by the tariffs? Yes, but who gives a shit. We don't want to be a country which sells corn and soybeans and imports our manufactures. We want to be a country which exports manufactures and not imports them. We want to be an industrial power again. Agriculture is not a priority. We are not a banana republic.