The new political dynamic

[ICU 812]

This is intended to be a neutral post. Please, no name calling.

I believe that most folks in this country feel that things are not working right. From Congress and the national legislative process on down to local public works (pot holes, bus service etc), things just don't seem to work well. We can have a whole long discussion about that. Please lets not. The nuts and bolts of why our public institutions do not work well is not the focus of my remarks.

But that there is a problem, or many problems, and how that affects our political dynamic IS what I want to talk about.

The collective frustration with the way we have "always done things" is a major factor in why and how people vote now. For the Republicans, it was the so-called "Tea Party" movement that so discomforted Sen McCain (Hobbits) and other main-stream or Establishment life time politicians. This frustration resulted in the final days of the primary race, to consider the non-establishment candidates Ted Cruse and Donald Trump. That Trump was elected is less his achievement than it is Clinton'as failing to perform (That is my opinion . . Plerase lets not pursue that in this thread).


In this evolving presidential race for 2020, I believe that the Democrat side is facing a similar dynamic. The potential field is large, with early commitments already. The candidates, dealred and potential, that seem ascendant are for the most part, not establishment Democrats or establishment liberals. A few are as potentially disruptive as Trump was, has been and is for the Republicans. There is as much frustration with the way our system ias working, on the Democrat side today as there was for the Republicans leading up to 2016.


We must all think about what we stand for and who we believe in. I feel that we are collectively teetering between the various flavors of totalitarian ideologyies that brought so much inhumanity to the 20th Centuryv . . .and its from both ends of the spectrum.

[grean]

I think parties no longer can represent any group of people very well. If you say you're a republican, democrat, or something else, theres a strong likelihood the party platform will have two or more policies that you are strongly against as much as you are strongly for any other policy.

You have people who are Republicans who are the exact opposite of conservative. There are a ton of pro gun pro life democrats.

The government wants to meddle in areas that government shouldn't. If they stuck to the basics, it would be better.

[gnadfly]

Things are working great.

UE is all time low
Low inflation
Low gas prices
No kneeling
Stock Market doing good
Break in the partial govt shutdown that few people noticed

Here's the make believe problem: We've been bombarded with "Russia, Russia, Russia" for two years and nothing to show for it.

Here's the real problem: "Baby it's cold outside." Make it work in your favor.

Here's the real oncoming problems: Housing starts down, Fed may raise interest rates again.

Here's the fake oncoming problem: For some reason CNBC and others keep touting a recession. I don't believe it for a second.

[rexdutchman]

^^ Yeah I agree Scare and Deceive politics and media and "the needs of one are being confused with the needs of society " And also gov.com city states an fed have just got to big to function properly" To many cooks in the kitchen " Just my 2 cents

[themystic]

Hopefully Trump wont fuck up Obama's economy hes been riding. The bill hasn't arrived for His tax cut that him and his buddies got

[WTF]

Originally Posted by gnadfly

Here's the real oncoming problems: Housing starts down, Fed may raise interest rates again.

Here's the fake oncoming problem: For some reason CNBC and others keep touting a recession. I don't believe it for a second.

So you think a recession is not possible?

Hmmmm

22 trillion dollar debt.

Feds may raise rates....and you do not think a recession is possible?

[themystic]

Originally Posted by WTF

So you think a recession is not possible?

Hmmmm

22 trillion dollar debt.

Feds may raise rates....and you do not think a recession is possible?

gnad cant be taken serious. look at his posts. hes up on his hilltop again looking down on the little people

[ICU 812]

Looking at the central idea of the OP:

I believe that there are two sorts of splits in the American voting public today.

On the one hand, both parties, Democrat and Republican, are internally devided between deeply liberal/socialist and more moderately liberal for the Democrats, and deeply conservative and moderate/centrist for Republicans. that is one type of dichotomy.

The other divide is less party oriented. I believe that the American publicingeneral, regardless of party ideology, is unhappy with the established power brokers, from our national legislature on down to local school boards and even the Neighborhood association. On the national scene, the political analysts refer to the "Establishment" factions of both parties (Pelosi/Schumer and McConnel, McCain, Boehner as examples).

But this dissatisfaction is broader and deeper. I live in a smallish suburban bedroom community to a major city. If one reads the local news papers, there seems to be blatant corruption at every level of government from City council to school board.

The widespread dissatisfaction comes from the prescieve inability of the public to get an honest effort from olur elected officials and our inability to elect people who will work honestly and in good faith for the public good. For example, I feel that fixing pot holes and improving drainage is more important than spending money on bicycle lanes and mini-parks (all good things to do, but potholes first).

This type of split I think, overlaps into both sides of the political spectrum and is independent of ideology.


Frankly, I think that this suppressed frustration, which borders on rage for some, is what led to Trump's nomination. He wass able to feel it and accessed it for his campegine. Again: that is what got him NOMINATED. In my opinion (and it is just my opinion), Trump did not win the 2016 election so much as Clinton lost it by not tapping into that frustration in the general public. She presented herself as an old-timer with experience . . .the public didn't really want that.

Democrats will have to carefully evaluate the currently large field of candidates to avoid a nominee that is as far from the center on the liberal side, as Trump has been for the Republicans.


Every Faciest dictator of the Twentieth Century was elected. As were several communist dictators. I am NOT saying that either extreme is represented by any current American politician.

Re-Read this rant and then just think about that paragraph though as we go forwad . . . .everyone.

[themystic]

Originally Posted by ICU 812

Looking at the central idea of the OP:

I believe that there are two sorts of splits in the American voting public today.

On the one hand, both parties, Democrat and Republican, are internally devided between deeply liberal/socialist and more moderately liberal for the Democrats, and deeply conservative and moderate/centrist for Republicans. that is one type of dichotomy.

The other divide is less party oriented. I believe that the American publicingeneral, regardless of party ideology, is unhappy with the established power brokers, from our national legislature on down to local school boards and even the Neighborhood association. On the national scene, the political analysts refer to the "Establishment" factions of both parties (Pelosi/Schumer and McConnel, McCain, Boehner as examples).

But this dissatisfaction is broader and deeper. I live in a smallish suburban bedroom community to a major city. If one reads the local news papers, there seems to be blatant corruption at every level of government from City council to school board.

The widespread dissatisfaction comes from the prescieve inability of the public to get an honest effort from olur elected officials and our inability to elect people who will work honestly and in good faith for the public good. For example, I feel that fixing pot holes and improving drainage is more important than spending money on bicycle lanes and mini-parks (all good things to do, but potholes first).

This type of split I think, overlaps into both sides of the political spectrum and is independent of ideology.


Frankly, I think that this suppressed frustration, which borders on rage for some, is what led to Trump's nomination. He wass able to feel it and accessed it for his campegine. Again: that is what got him NOMINATED. In my opinion (and it is just my opinion), Trump did not win the 2016 election so much as Clinton lost it by not tapping into that frustration in the general public. She presented herself as an old-timer with experience . . .the public didn't really want that.

Democrats will have to carefully evaluate the currently large field of candidates to avoid a nominee that is as far from the center on the liberal side, as Trump has been for the Republicans.


Every Faciest dictator of the Twentieth Century was elected. As were several communist dictators. I am NOT saying that either extreme is represented by any current American politician.

Re-Read this rant and then just think about that paragraph though as we go forwad . . . .everyone.

Good post and I agree. The far left is to far left and the far right is to far right. In the RTW I have that talk many times. Politicians lying is nothing new. Trump has taken lying and corruption to a level that is unprecedented. keep in mind Trumps support is 38%. People came out and voted in the mid terms, on both sides. Trump got clocked. The Democrat who will rise hasn't entered yet

[rexdutchman]

I agree with you on " Good post and I agree. The far left is to far left and the far right is to far right. In the RTW I have that talk many times. Politicians lying is nothing new"

[Jackie S]

Whether or not you want to include the Trump/Hillary race in this discussion is a moot point because this mass dissatisfaction is based on the Left's refusal to accept the fact that President Trump received more Electorial Votes than Hillary.

Everything stems from that.

[oeb11]

The most cogent post in a very long while.

Until It got to Trump.

Lying is endemic on both sides of the aisle.
Try a little balance - or just admit support for Omar and Tlaib who want to Obliterate Israel and all Jewish people in favor of Radical Islamic Terrorists.

For a change - thank you - TM

[ICU 812]

Originally Posted by themystic

Good post and I agree. The far left is to far left and the far right is to far right. In the RTW I have that talk many times. Politicians lying is nothing new. Trump has taken lying and corruption to a level that is unprecedented. keep in mind Trumps support is 38%. People came out and voted in the mid terms, on both sides. Trump got clocked. The Democrat who will rise hasn't entered yet

Yes . . .all that. But its a larger societal phenomenon.

I see blatant corruption on our little town's City Council and Schoolboard, where an architectural firm/construction contractor have corrupted our elected officials into committing to projects and contracts that are just not on the up-and-up. Can't replace the school board wholesale as the seats open upp on a staggered schedule. City council has the universal advantages of incumbency . . .and everybody in the public just wants to go to work and live their life.


Frustration and anger over this sort of stuff at every level is what drove the Trump nomination, and failure to understand it lead to Clinton's loss.

Beyond the 2016 election, both parties have a deep problem , and it will affect us all adversely. I am not advocating for Republican or Democrat positions her . I don't think either have good enough answers or personalities in the mix.

I am hoping the American people will come together in the middle, from moderate Liberal to moderate Conservative, and re-unite the country.

[txdot-guy]

Infrastructure is the least sexy of anything that politicians do. That's why so many cities and towns are falling apart. People like parks and bike lanes and public pools, etc. Until we get our public servants to take infrastructure funding seriously our water supply, dams, bridges, sewage plants are all going to continue to deteriorate until everybody is living in their own version of Flint Michigan.

[themystic]

Originally Posted by ICU 812

Yes . . .all that. But its a larger societal phenomenon.

I see blatant corruption on our little town's City Council and Schoolboard, where an architectural firm/construction contractor have corrupted our elected officials into committing to projects and contracts that are just not on the up-and-up. Can't replace the school board wholesale as the seats open upp on a staggered schedule. City council has the universal advantages of incumbency . . .and everybody in the public just wants to go to work and live their life.


Frustration and anger over this sort of stuff at every level is what drove the Trump nomination, and failure to understand it lead to Clinton's loss.

Beyond the 2016 election, both parties have a deep problem , and it will affect us all adversely. I am not advocating for Republican or Democrat positions her . I don't think either have good enough answers or personalities in the mix.

I am hoping the American people will come together in the middle, from moderate Liberal to moderate Conservative, and re-unite the country.

That would be my hope as well. Hillary wasn't the answer. Trump has shown America what we don't want. Who knows maybe lightning will strike and we will eventually get there