immigration issues overall

[VitaMan]

Instead of attacking policies and actions, what is a solution to immigration ?
Legal immigration.....and illegal immigration. That distinction needs to be made clear
in all the posts.

Is there any historical perspective ? I have not done research, but in the past, there were not that many people around, so countries were happy to have more people arrive. At least in the USA. There used to be advertisements to come to the USA and get free land. A lot of farmers saw those ads, packed up, and came to the USA. Many spent years establishing themselves and earning money, before sending for their families to join them. What is the historical story of countries that have been around a long time ? China and India have massive populations compared to all others.

Ellis Island was established, country quotas were established. Eventually Ellis Island closed.

Today, all sorts of issues are coming up because of immigration. Some countries that embraced it are now worrying about the identity of their country. Will France remain a french speaking country ? Will the US have to become a country with no official language ? Will Britain completely lose its character ? Is it wrong for a country to want to keep its culture and character the same ?

Today in the sw USA, train boxcars have become a way for immigrants to try and get into the USA. Trains have had to shut down and can't do their normal business.

Germany is wondering if immigration policies have all been a mistake.

With the world population increasing at an ever expanding rate, is there a solution ?

[DNinja69]

Great questions and I think the first task is border control. Not trying to start a debate on building a wall or not but if we do not drastically limit the inbound illegal traffic all other efforts will either fail or be too involved and expensive to make any real impact.

We definitely need some policies and protocols in place so that those in the US illegally who commit violent crimes and other major infractions are expelled with severe penalties for returning.

Whatever our political leanings we are going to have to amnesty or otherwise provide avenues for those who have already been here illegally for extended periods of time a path to citizenship so they are fully on the books and part of the system.

Unfortunately as we see today the two parties have vastly different mindsets on the issue yet neither really want to risk losing votes by doing much of anything and on that side I give Trump credit for having the balls to speak on and work towards solutions.

[ICU 812]

Lets look at the current legal ways to enter the USA:


By Intenational agreement, asylum seekers and refugees are mandated to apply for protection in the first country they enter from their homeland. In the Case of folks flying into Mexico to cross into the USA, that country could be Mexico. In th case of those crossing into the USA from Canada, it could be Canada. In either case, that first cvountry could very well be somewhere else.

Current US immigration law in effect at this time mandates that asylum seekers and those wishing to enter the USA on some other status must apply for travel documents at the US embassy or consulate in their homeland to obtain them.

Whatever the case, anyone attempting to enter the USA on any status must do so at a port of entry and submit to the attention of immigration and customs officials (ICE).


Any action other than those described above is a de facto illegal act.

[farmstud60]

First thing that has to be done is border secure. The rest is meaningless unless you have secure border.

[ICU 812]

Sure, close the door first.

The DACA folks could be the first to be deported. They are all registered and accounted for, so that should be an easy first step.

I for one, would like to hear from someone on the liberal eft who can tell us why and how the uncontrolled, unrestricted and unlimited influx of foreign nationals by the millions is a good thing for America and Americans.

[1blackman1]

So we’re sending folks that were mostly brought to the US as little kids back to a country they likely have no recollection of? Most DACA people didn’t as 3-7 year olds leave their homes in Central America and travel to the US on their own accord. Most have been in the US for as long as they can remember. They were educated here and worked and paid taxes. Some have fought in the military for the US. Those are the ones you want to round up and send back to Central America? That’s why republican policies will never pass.

[eyecu2]

Originally Posted by farmstud60

First thing that has to be done is border secure. The rest is meaningless unless you have secure border.

Tell us why you cannot just have border patrol tell the ppl to turn around and go back, or load them on a bus and take them back to mexico? These ppl are pushing past razer wire and don't care, whats a wall going to do besides slow them down a little more; maybe a day, maybe 2 or 3. Tell us why the border is really not secure!

[eyecu2]

Originally Posted by ICU 812

Sure, close the door first.

The DACA folks could be the first to be deported. They are all registered and accounted for, so that should be an easy first step.

I for one, would like to hear from someone on the liberal eft who can tell us why and how the uncontrolled, unrestricted and unlimited influx of foreign nationals by the millions is a good thing for America and Americans.

that's ridiculous- it's like rounding up the most "legal" law abiding folks who don't have a green card and shooting them out. Most of them speak english as natives, and work and pay taxes, so in fact, contribute to our nation. The ones who do NOT are the ones who come here without visa's or jump the border etc. They are just pariah to our society and need to leave first. DACA- needs to be decided in court- and then processed one way or another. There are more people working in the US as undocumented and without work visa's than not. Id even go so far as to say, we need to have ICE in every state and larger cities, and teams that go to hot areas (hot pockets) and round up those who don't have a legal ability to be in the country, and deported to their home country of origin immediately. Rinse / repeat.

It would serve no purpose to remove those who's only failing was they were brought over as children, and are contributing to our society in both work or in taxes, but are pending in status. If they are deemed not allowed to stay in a court of law, then yes, deport them. But they would NOT be the first to go, they would be the last.

[ICU 812]

DACA . . .that is on their parents. It is nothing to do with any good purpose. It has everything to do with principle.

In the 11980s, the Democrats in control of both houses promised President Reagan that they would close down the borders if only he would grant amnesty to all illegals in the country at that time. He did, but they did not.

Amnesty first has been done. Someone has to go back first.

The DA in DACA stands for differed adjudication. Now it is time for that calling to account. If their entry to the USA was legal at the time, they would not be in the DACA program.

[ICU 812]

But DACA is admittedly a sort of special case that can be ethically complex. Let us set DACA aside for the moment then.

Instead we can look at the larger issue.

I invite anyone to explain how admitting foreign nationals, anyone and everyone, unscreened and in unlimited numbers, raises the quality of life in our major urban centers.

How does such an influx benefit the Nation as a whole and its citizens generally?

Tell us how this is good for America and Americans.

[farmstud60]

Originally Posted by 1blackman1

So we’re sending folks that were mostly brought to the US as little kids back to a country they likely have no recollection of? Most DACA people didn’t as 3-7 year olds leave their homes in Central America and travel to the US on their own accord. Most have been in the US for as long as they can remember. They were educated here and worked and paid taxes. Some have fought in the military for the US. Those are the ones you want to round up and send back to Central America? That’s why republican policies will never pass.

That is the lie told by Democrats.

Bottom line is Democrats want a wide open border

[eyecu2]

Originally Posted by farmstud60

That is the lie told by Democrats.

Bottom line is Democrats want a wide open border

That's ridiculous. Nobody wants anything open. There a few salient points.

Border walls, slow down illegal passage, but doesn't eliminate them. They are costly and they are only effective at keeping out those who would be swayed by a wall. There are plenty with shovels and ropes that are slowed down by a few minutes, an hour or perhaps a day or two. Not as effective as policy changes and enabling the current border patrol to simply send ppl back after capture.

Dems just want to see the changes become permanent,vs via Exec Order. There are so many holes in the whole asylum portion of our immigration system, that it needs to be revised to meet the demands of those who want to come here and to protect the citizens who are here. Thats not too hard to understand. Why can't congress get their shit together is purely political and they don't want a political win for Biden or a perceived loss for Trump. Here we are in the middle.

Here's some common myths.

• Dems want open borders. We don't, we tolerate legal passages. Illegals need to go back- same feeling as GOPers.

• Dems are fascists and hate america- We dont' - We love america just like you, but realize this country was built by immigrants.

• Dems want to open the border to get votes. Ha- you cannot vote in any federal election without being a citizen; and you need to produce some eligibility to vote in the vast majority of states for state elections. Typically the only thing that an illegal can affect is a census legally.

• Dems are the deep state and led by SOROS or other boogeymen. False, we simply are a little more tolerant to letting others pursue their dreams, where as GOPers, are afraid of anyone taking something off their plate, since they've been gaslit for almost 10 yrs now by their party- saying this bullshit.

Generally-Immigration needs a redo, an update and a limitation on how we process or grant asylum to those who seek it. The gig is up and the ppl streaming over know how to game the system. You cannot fix it with 5-7 yr backlogs in cases or got-aways. We all deserve to have a government of pertinent and non-ambiguous laws, that works to protect us, but not just from illegals, but from the "other political" party who is literally selling bullshit about the entire process. Doesn't matter which side you're on, the other side feels the same way about you.

[VitaMan]

Random points:


The building of the border wall had issues, with Trump cronies like Steve Bannon pocketing a lot of the money. Is the border wall the solution to stopping illegal immigration ? If so, I am all for it.


As an American, I don't feel the need to learn Spanish. I don't need my street signs in Vietnamese.


A lot of Chinese say, "We are a big country. Why do we have to learn English ?"
Too bad, out of luck there. English is the language of international business and commerce. At least we can thank the British for something.

[ICU 812]

Originally Posted by eyecu2

That's ridiculous. Nobody wants anything open.

.

If that statement was accurate, President Biden would have left in place most if not all of his predecessor's policies and executive actions and tried to have them codified in law by congress. He did not.

We have had three-plus years of an unlimited influx of foreign nationals, estimated to be several million, in that time. This was not merely allowed to happen, it was encouraged and incentivized by the Biden administration and by the widely reported benefits and perks offered by the self-proclaimed sanctuary cities and states.


When the State of Texas took control of a few miles of their common border with Mexico and fortified that stretch with anti-personal obstacles to prevent crossing, the Biden administration tried every legal angle they could find to thwart those efforts to close the border.

These are not the actions of folks who do not want an open border. I think that the opposite of that is the case . . . and obviously so.

[Yssup Rider]

Originally Posted by ICU 812

If that statement was accurate, President Biden would have left in place most if not all of his predecessor's policies and executive actions and tried to have them codified in law by congress. He did not.

We have had three-plus years of an unlimited influx of foreign nationals, estimated to be several million, in that time. This was not merely allowed to happen, it was encouraged and incentivized by the Biden administration and by the widely reported benefits and perks offered by the self-proclaimed sanctuary cities and states.


When the State of Texas took control of a few miles of their common border with Mexico and fortified that stretch with anti-personal obstacles to prevent crossing, the Biden administration tried every legal angle they could find to thwart those efforts to close the border.

These are not the actions of folks who do not want an open border. I think that the opposite of that is the case . . . and obviously so.

Another twisted view of what happened.