UBI (Universal Basic Income)

[Randall Creed]

https://youtu.be/kl39KHS07Xc

Goofing off on youtube, i stumbled upon the above, and it got me thinking. Ladies, if this program took off, do you think it would have any bearing on your providing? While an extra $1,000 a month is cool, it's not the kind of money that you can retire on. For some, I'd imagine that $1,000 more a month might be the difference in wanting to willingly lay around with fat, ugly men.

If this took off, what do you all think happens to our society, and hobby as well? For me personally, 1,000 extra bucks a month would be cool, but I have life goals that require more money, so I'd have to keep working.

[Mr_ Black]

I can see this being viable option if AI (artiicial intelligence) develops to a level where most jobs are eliminated. But then the conundrum comes in of who pays for it since too many ppl at that point would be on the government dole.

OveralI, I think it’s a bad idea. We have enough socialist programs that we cannot pay for. People need to get creative and find a niche to fill in the economy. Thomas Sowell discuss the idea that wealth is created not distributed and I concur with that assessment.

[EquateMan]

Personally I think it's a great idea, but it may be that $1,000/month is too much, at least at our current level of automation. I think it's inevitable as we progress as a society. People love to say that the cashier jobs might go away, but new, better jobs will open up. This is true, but not in the same numbers. Automation has replaced many jobs and will continue to replace more. Hundreds of cashiers are replaced by a handful of technicians and engineers to build self checkouts. And, as much as we hate to say it, some people will never be engineers no matter how accessible the education is, which is a whole different topic.

I think the best way to go is to replace all the programs we have now (WIC, Section 8 housing, EBT (Food stamps), unemployment, maybe even disability and SS), with a base UBI that you get no matter what, and everyone gets it so there's little overhead on administration and it's impossible to scam. You get it, no strings attached, so you don't have to hide income or look for cash only jobs.

Next, get rid of minimum wage. Let the market figure that out. Some jobs aren't worth $8-15/hour. In college, I would have gladly worked the night desk at a motel for less than minimum wage, since I could do my homework and sleep until someone rang the bell. Also, the UBI would give me the strength to say I'm not putting up with this terrible job just so I don't starve, so wages would have to rise to meet the market.

Yes, taxes would have to go up a little, but that's ok if I have that huge safety net built in. It also gives me some basic cost of living to quit a bad job and go to school. I honestly think it could be a net gain for society as a whole. How many people don't go to school, or start their own business where they could make much more money, simply because they can't afford to take a few month without income to do so?

[Randall Creed]

The 'evil' catchword came sooner than I expected. Socialism. I knew it was coming, but...whatever. As far as so called socialism goes, I'll say this. I'm more bothered by people making several million a year (many of whom circumvent proper tax paying) than welfare moms getting $300 a month in government assistance.

Don't get me wrong. If you have a particular ability that pays you well or you own things that make you a lot of money, I'm fine with that. I just can't grasp why it's OK to make seemingly endless amounts of money on one end of society, but when poor people want to live juuuuuust a little better, ohhh nooo.....SOCIALISM!!!

Nobody cares that the amazon guy has $150B in net worth, that he doesn't know what to do with, but the woman with four fatherless kids getting help is a problem???

You ever stop to think that the reason people on the lower end of society can't get ahead is because of the way those on the other end keep changing the rules as they see fit. Let's pay people 8 bucks an hour, and charge them $1,500 a month in rent....JUST RENT. Oh, and next year, let's raise that rent, again. And don't get me started on other shit, like food, health care, education (which, btw, your numbskull GOP wants to dumb down society instead of making them smarter....gee, I wonder why).

Steering back towards the subject at hand, you give people an extra grip every month, all they're going to do is spend it anyway. Many people are so behind financially, for the most part they'll use the money to catch up on bills, avoid evictions, eat (not everyone gets food stamps...some poor people are overqualified), fix the house, etc.

People are struggling, dude. Hard. Some of it is their fault. A lot of it is not. A big part of it is wages not keeping up with the cost of living.

Ahh, but then you'll say, 'go get a better job'. Well, there's a process to that, too...a bottle necking process, meaning not everyone's going to get the 'good' jobs.

Oh, gee. What factors into WHO gets the 'good' jobs (can you say privilege, good ol boy systems, etc)? I bet right now, you know at least one MORON who only got a particular job because of connections, nepotism, etc.

By Moron getting the job, that means that someone more qualified yet with no connections doesn't get the job, and likely have to work under Moron and make Moron look good. There are other factors of interference in climbing the corporate ladder. We all know it.

But, let's denounce, discourage, and detest socialism, because I guess it's better that a small few have everything than a everybody living at a comfortable minimum.

Let's see how fast we can help Amazon guy get to $300B. He and those like him will need it when they try to buy their way into Heaven.

[Mr_ Black]

Trust me I understand your frustration with the current economic pitfalls and how it’s tough for a lot of people to survive, let alone thrive. I am a black guy who grew up with a single mom with 4 boys struggling on welfare living in the projects of NYC. Joined the military, got my degree and worked my to the 6 figure income I enjoy now in my mid 30s. I personally don’t think there’s nothing wrong with social programs. We need them to a degree but I don’t believe we need another unless we replace them with UBI as stated earlier.

The big differentiator between those who fail and those who succeed is one’s mentality. Every action starts with the mind and one must adapt a mindset gears towards success and execute. When you make bad decisions early on you inhibit that ability and it compounds as the years go on. Of course, you have those lucky few who skate theough life but no one said life is fair and that’s not representative of the majority of people’s experience. People have to realize like myself that, “I’m better than this” and work towards a goal. Although I would concede that there are naturally losers in capitalism. Just got to make you’re not one of them.

[oeb11]

Should be in Political Forum
Good Discussion

Thank You - Mr. Black.

[SARufus]

It’s one fucked up idea. The Federal government will take in approximately $3.6 Trillion in 2020 according to The Office of Management and Budget. They will spend $4.7 Trillion leaving a $1.1Trillion shortfall. Giving every adult in the US $1K a month will cost an additional $3.0Trillion.

What’s next? Reparations for efficiency created by assembly lines and automation.

[Randall Creed]

Originally Posted by SARufus

It’s one fucked up idea. The Federal government will take in approximately $3.6 Trillion in 2020 according to The Office of Management and Budget. They will spend $4.7 Trillion leaving a $1.1Trillion shortfall. Giving every adult in the US $1K a month will cost an additional $3.0Trillion.

What’s next? Reparations for efficiency created by assembly lines and automation.

It's funny you mention reparations.

I read somewhere that slave owners got reparations when they lost slaves.

Edit: Even did a quick google for it.

http://https://www.google.com/url?sa...w4qCnPVlqp6D7t

http://https://www.google.com/url?sa...j5UEHSOLizjgAz

It just gets better an' better, doesn't it (and by that I mean worse...worse for denouncers of white privilege, no reparations, any other cockamamie bullshit that tries to convince us that the playing field is level, etc.)??

[kehaar]

The people that I know that are in poverty are in poverty because of the choices they, and their parents, have made.

What you are saying is that there shouldn't be consequence to the choices we make.

When a woman chooses to get pregnant by a parasite, she has made a choice. That the parasite is good looking, smooth talking, a liar, or a conman really isn't important. The fact is she chose a parasite to be her baby daddy. The fact is she chose poverty.

When a woman chooses to give her money to a pimp(a specialized breed of parasite), she has chosen poverty.

When an 18 year old decides to buy a 300$ pair of shoes, he has chosen poverty.

If what the UBI folks are saying that giving a stipend to everyone will alleviate poverty, they are being fundamentally stupid. For working class people and below, we are what we produce. Giving someone a stipend just encourages a large number of people to stop producing value. There are a large number of folks that can, and would, live off a 1000$/month per person. Giving them a stipend ensures that they will live in poverty the rest of their life. That is what I spend outside of entertainment.

What will happen is that pimps will gather groups of women, steal their stipend, and put them to work as prostitutes. The women will have no more than they have now.

The people who pay for shit like this aren't the rich. It is the people who wake up in the morning at 6 am so that their families can thrive. If more people had that value system, we would not need to argue about shit like this, and everyone would thrive.

People who say they can't work their way out of poverty aren't making the right choices.

[Randall Creed]

Same ol' tired argument from someone likely gifted everything in life, or born on third base.

Nobody chooses to be poor, guy.

Were you snickering when you typed that bullshit, or did you do it with a straight face?

Oh, btw, how do you feel about slave owners getting reparations??

Seems everybody got a big check from the guvment for whatever reason...except black people. We get ours, in $100 increments.

[SARufus]

FYI - Slave owners were not given reparations. It was compensated emancipation. The slave owners were compensated for their loss of property.

[Warptcuck]

I was born and raised very poor. I worked hard, I stayed with one company and moved up slowly.
I am not high school educated, I left to work. Not a smart idea, but I did it because I thought I was smart.
I make good money for someone with a 9th grade education. Not rich by no means, but I stuck with it,

when someone else moved up, retired or quit, I usually moved up a little higher also.
Over the years, I proved myself by working hard. I still do work hard, but use my experience and mind more than my muscle.
If your parents raise you right, it's up to you to live like they raised you. All of my siblings chose to stay poor, have kids they couldn't afford, live off the gov't. ect.

I chose to wait to have kids until I could afford them. I chose to save for a house down payment instead of rent all my life and not have my own house. I didn't drink, smoke, do drugs, chew tobacco, ect. until after I saved that down payment.
I drove old clunkers so I could have a decent house.

You can do it, if you try hard. It's tough, but it can be done.
My house is paid for. My car and truck are paid for.

It took a long time. But I bought just 1 house and stuck it out. Didn't get bigger and bigger.

My kids are grown and gone, on their own.

I hope to retire comfortably by 65, and that's not too long from now.

I did it cause I tried. I never asked for help from anyone.



And Slavery has nothing to do with how people live today. No one alive was a slave. No one alive owned slaves. I agree that at one time blacks had to try harder, just because they were black.

But today, I see a lot of poor and middle class blacks who have grown up to be very successful. I work for one of them. He went into the Army, and got through career training with the GI Bill. I can't ask for a better guy to work for.



Our last president was black. Came from nowhere. If he can do it, why can't others? We all have to try harder. Never give up. We just don't get lucky and step into a pot of money. We have to earn it.

[Randall Creed]

Originally Posted by SARufus

FYI - Slave owners were not given reparations. It was compensated emancipation. The slave owners were compensated for their loss of property.

Saying it this way sounds so much better...only, not.