Financial Reform???

[guest051312]

Well Giz you have exec's ruining companies and still getting paid outragous salaries for doing bad work. If I make bad choices I don't get a huge wage and a bonus. Used to be if you did bad you were fired. As for the poverty level, it's getting higher, used to be if you made less than 15K you were considered poor, they predict it will go up every year, so if you can't keep pace with inflation and earn more, you will be going backwards. And I'm sure Obama and the boys will have to raise taxes all across the board to cover thier spending. It just won't be an income tax but probably a value added tax and any other back door tax they can think of. The rich aren't taking anything from the little guy directly, they just raise to price of the products and services we all buy and use. I do it myself, if I need to make more I raise my prices to have more fun in the Hobby.LOL It's fair for person to become rich if you earned it, if you didn't you shouldn't.

[tkdbf]

Originally Posted by rpmsouth

Well Giz you have exec's ruining companies and still getting paid outragous salaries for doing bad work.

Is it really the place of the gov. or private citizen to say what the said exec's get paid? You said that if you need to make more money that you raise prices at your business. What if I decided you couldn't because I, as a private citizen, didn't feel you earned the increase? The bottom line is for everyone to quit being jealous of the "big exec's" and take some personal responibility to work hard and make money for themself.

[BIG C]

Originally Posted by tkdbf

You said that if you need to make more money that you raise prices at your business. What if I decided you couldn't because I, as a private citizen, didn't feel you earned the increase? The bottom line is for everyone to quit being jealous of the "big exec's" and take some personal responibility to work hard and make money for themself.

If you decide he didn't earn the increase for his business, then simply don't use his business and he'll either improve his business (assuming you're not the only one who feels that way) or he'll have to find a new business to make income.....The one thing that isn't being done is the gov't sending him millions to bail out like they're dong big business execs.....And that's the whole point you seem to miss here.....It's not being jealous of the big execs, it's pointing out how it's unfair that gov't is sending them millions to bail out their businesses when they make bad business decisions and ruin their business, while the little guys don't get sent anything when they need help.....I don't ever recall them coming to me and giving million$ to get my business going.....WTF??!!??

[tkdbf]

I would say unfair is the wrong word to use. Being fair has nothing to do with why it's wrong for the gov to use our tax dollars to bail them out. Our tax dollars are not meant to be used to keep troubled businesses from folding no matter how large or small. I probably should have made my point clearer. While the salaries of the exec's didn't help the situation it's not the reason for them folding, I.B. did a very good job pointing out what lead to it. It just seems that everyone wants to point the finger at the salaries of the "big exec's", which by human nature is because of jealousy. And also the reason you choose the word unfair in describing the bailout. The actions Clinton took with Freddy and Fanny during his time were the biggest factor in why the big banks are crumbling. And now the current admin is throwing our money, borrowed from China by the way, to "correct" a problem that will cease to end until Americans quit worrying about the financial status of the next guy and do something for improve their own standing.

[BIG C]

And again, I think you're either missing the point, or just ignoring it.....No one is crying about the salaries of big execs.....I started the thread wondering how giving them money to bailout their business is supposed to help us out of this financial bind we're in.....They already had money and didn't use it wisely and now the solution is to give them more moeny???....And yes, I think it's unfair that they're bailing them out but no one will bailout the little guy who is struggling with his business.....I see businesses continuing to have to shut their doors, and by inference, someone is losing their jobs, families, homes, ect., and the gov't is NOT using our tax dollars to bail them out.....Yeah, it's unfair and it has nothing to do with being jealous of big exec's salary.....

[tkdbf]

In a free market society is it really the job of the gov to bailout any business no matter how large or small? That's a big fat NO. The big businesses that used their money poorly should be allowed to fail just the same as a small business that uses it's money poorly should fail. Either way our tax money is not meant to bailout a failing business and given that the current admin has no clue what it means to be fiscally responsible the country is on a fast ride to rock bottom.

[BIG C]

Originally Posted by tkdbf

In a free market society is it really the job of the gov to bailout any business no matter how large or small? That's a big fat NO. The big businesses that used their money poorly should be allowed to fail just the same as a small business that uses it's money poorly should fail. Either way our tax money is not meant to bailout a failing business and given that the current admin has no clue what it means to be fiscally responsible the country is on a fast ride to rock bottom.

And you make my point, but still seem to be missing the other point.....I don't say it's the gov't's job to bailout a failing business.....But the point is they're bailing out big business and NOT doing anything for the more than millions of small businesses that are failing.....So why is it fine to give to big business and not do the same for any business that is failing.....Now that's as plain and simple as I can make the point so if you still fail to understand it, then let's just move on and agree with what we do agree on.....

[MrGiz]

Originally Posted by BIG C

And you make my point, but still seem to be missing the other point.....I don't say it's the gov't's job to bailout a failing business.....But the point is they're bailing out big business and NOT doing anything for the more than millions of small businesses that are failing.....So why is it fine to give to big business and not do the same for any business that is failing.....Now that's as plain and simple as I can make the point so if you still fail to understand it, then let's just move on and agree with what we do agree on.....

C.... I don't disagree at all with your position!! I just don't think any businesses (big or small) should be bailed out, using the public's money!
It gets back to Personal Responsibility again! People / businesses should fail if they can't "take care of business"!!
Bail-outs teach them nothing except dependency!!

Giz

[tkdbf]

I understand that your point is why help one and not the other. But the problem is that they shouldn't be handing out cash as a way to help no matter the size of the business. Handing out a large lump sum of cash is not a long term fix for any business or person. It is no different than winning big at a casino. The majority of people would not invest that money or use it to better their position. The majority would turn around blow it on nonessential items. Bottom line of my point is that the gov should NOT be sending out a seeming endless supply of tax money to ANY business. Large businesses get large by failing and learning from mistakes just as much as when they hit it lucky. By not allowing both big and small business to fail and rebound on their own the gov is destroying what made America into a great nation in the first place.

[jhende3]

This sounds just like what I saw on tv about "talking points" if you call it a bank bailout long enough most people would belive it. If it was a bailout as so many have claimed it would seem to me to have the support of the banks since them would benefit from it the solely. But they seem to hate it. But this is politics as usual and "bank bailout" sounds better.

[BIG C]

Originally Posted by MrGiz

C.... I don't disagree at all with your position!! I just don't think any businesses (big or small) should be bailed out, using the public's money!
It gets back to Personal Responsibility again! People / businesses should fail if they can't "take care of business"!!
Bail-outs teach them nothing except dependency!!

Giz

Gman, I concur highly with this point and that's kinda what I was saying, except that I was adding that since they're bailing out big business, why is it kewl for them to do that (particularly since this approach has never, ever, ever worked in the country's past.....The rich get their money and instead of using it to stimulate the economy, they put it into their own pockets, or they blow it on the same dumb shit that got us into this mess in the first place.....

Originally Posted by tkdbf

I understand that your point is why help one and not the other. But the problem is that they shouldn't be handing out cash as a way to help no matter the size of the business. Handing out a large lump sum of cash is not a long term fix for any business or person. It is no different than winning big at a casino. The majority of people would not invest that money or use it to better their position. The majority would turn around blow it on nonessential items. Bottom line of my point is that the gov should NOT be sending out a seeming endless supply of tax money to ANY business. Large businesses get large by failing and learning from mistakes just as much as when they hit it lucky. By not allowing both big and small business to fail and rebound on their own the gov is destroying what made America into a great nation in the first place.

I stand corrected and must apologize to you as it seems that you did understand the point I was making.....Something was just getting lost in the translation.....It's kewl and it seems that we're on the same page....But, since they are going to subsidize one, why not the others.....That's what I'd like to know.....

[tkdbf]

I had the feeling we were on the same page BIG C. Don't worry I still think you're the big and bad jackass around here. Lol No apology needed.

I get the feeling it's a hidden form of redistribution. I'm sure I'll be flamed by some for saying that but just read what I have to say. By pumping the money into big business they can later take that money back through taxes after they run out of money to hand out to us "average joes". The thought is that the money will then be spent on goods, services, etc. and create a cycle of money going into business then back to the public. Obama didn't and doesn't hide the fact that he is a communist at heart. I believe it to be his version of redistribution, or at least the one he was chosen to carry out.

[MrGiz]

Originally Posted by tkdbf

..... I believe it to be his version of redistribution, or at least the one he was chosen to carry out.

I think I know where you're going with that statement.... tell me if I'm wrong.

I don't believe Obama is sharp enough to have cooked-up his administration's policies from within himself.... very few, if any Presidents are that economically adept! I am not a classic conspiracy believer.... but I believe Obama is a Puppet, being manipulated by a much larger and more organized , global machine.... along with some Old School Chicago Strong Arm tactics, used to intimidate and bully! It's not so much "Him" I don't like.... it's his "handlers" that are behind the purposeful destruction!

Giz's $.02

[tkdbf]

That sums it up pretty good Giz.

[BIG C]

Originally Posted by tkdbf

Don't worry I still think you're the big and bad jackass around here. Lol

And don't anyone ever forget it.....LOL