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A Question of Legality Post your legal questions here (general, nothing of a personal nature)


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Old 03-13-2018, 01:48 PM   #1
easymoe
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What effect will these laws have on eccie? I've been getting worried lately. I applaud fighting sex trafficking but I don't see what consensual sex between adults has to do with that.
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Old 03-13-2018, 03:48 PM   #2
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If one of the "consenting" adults is forced into the business, it becomes a trafficking issue.
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Old 03-22-2018, 08:53 AM   #3
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The chilling effects on free speech have already begun even before it becomes law. Today reddit banned the subreddits r/escorts and r/hookers as part of a new policy against advertising sexual services for a fee. That is not what happened on these groups. Merely discussion about topics pertaining to prostitution. I have followed these groups for a few years and can’t ever remember seeing an ad there.
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Old 03-22-2018, 09:12 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpankyJ View Post
The chilling effects on free speech have already begun even before it becomes law. Today reddit banned the subreddits r/escorts and r/hookers as part of a new policy against advertising sexual services for a fee. That is not what happened on these groups. Merely discussion about topics pertaining to prostitution. I have followed these groups for a few years and can’t ever remember seeing an ad there.
Yep. All people did there was talk. Not solicit, not advertise, not facilitate, not make dates....just talk. And now this new law has everyone so scared that talking is forbidden.
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Old 03-22-2018, 10:12 AM   #5
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Yep, at least one sugar daddy site went dark last nite. Cityvibe shut down today as best as I can tell.

Once the John President signs it more will follow suit.

I'm sure the legal team here is dispensing advice.

Here may last through a constitutional challenge before anything happens.

The next site in danger of targeting is probably TER as it's the remaining site with any kind of significant national profile.

The remaining sites that are valuable for research are regional and less likely to be targeted nationally, which includes here.

The nannies that complain about the "nanny state" are always looking for a new villain.

Especially as funding for the War on Drugs dries up and shifts to turning "human trafficking" into the new War on Drugs. Gotta keep that spigot of federal tax dollars open. Gotta justify those Human Trafficking Task Forces with names that sometimes have nothing to do with "human trafficking".

It's all feel good, cosmetic legislation to brag about to the NIMBY crowd back home.

Election year stunt/ bs is what it amounts to.

But yes it will have a chilling effect throughout the hobby as sites shut down out of fear, lack of income, lack of legal representation, etc.

ACLU might step in, but I'd put my money on larger international NGOs that have come out with statements in the vein of "sex worker rights are human rights".

America is still a Puritanical society when it comes down to it. While the rest of the world is ahead of us on decriminalization of the hobby. We are hobbled by so called Christians who get outed as hobbyists more often than non-Christians and their very forgiving sheep, I mean followers.

Decriminalization makes sex work safer for both the hobbyist and the provider. But it will be well after legal recreational marijuana at the federal level before enough of the younger generation gets into office and sees the light. Then they can truly focus on actual human traffickers and leave us consenting adults alone.

It will also only serve to put the worst of BP onto the "dark web". Which will in turn make it harder for law enforcement to find actual human traffickers and actual human trafficking victims. Which may put providers back on the street corner where the NIMBY crowd began complaining back in the 90s. When the bath houses, AMPs, underground brothels, etc. began getting shit down when all the people were asking for was to get the SWs off their streets.

LE went above and beyond and in turn lost CIs and made it harder to keep track of certain parolees and probationers.

The rabbit hole on this goes pretty deep and begins to touch on forbidden topics. So I will stop here. I'm sure SJ or UC may have more to offer as legal opinions begin to be bandied about in their circles.
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Old 03-22-2018, 12:20 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by easymoe View Post
Yep. All people did there was talk. Not solicit, not advertise, not facilitate, not make dates....just talk. And now this new law has everyone so scared that talking is forbidden.
Unfortunately, as I understand it, this law actually makes it a FEDERAL crime to use the internet to "promote or facilitate prostitution." And that provision is for INDIVIDUALS. So doing nothing more than talking about it may be prosecutable.

The worst possible outcome is if this is used to take down something like VerifyHim or sex worker's rights sites.

Edit: add link https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2018/0...sored-internet
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Old 03-22-2018, 02:32 PM   #7
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Just Incase here’s my contact information:
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Old 03-22-2018, 11:34 PM   #8
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I don't think that services owned by companies that operate outside the jurisdiction of the US will be affected. What's not clear is whether non-US companies that have servers within US borders will be subject to the law.
  • TER is registered in Cyprus
  • P411 operates out of Canada
  • ProtonMail operates out of Switzerland
ECCIE's days are probably numbered. I imagine the owners would sooner shut it down and try to setup shop in a country that's more friendly to sites like this rather than fight FOSTA/SESTA in the courts.

In any event, I would consider transitioning to services outside the jurisdiction of the US until the dust settles.
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Old 03-23-2018, 03:36 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny_rocketz View Post
I don't think that services owned by companies that operate outside the jurisdiction of the US will be affected. What's not clear is whether non-US companies that have servers within US borders will be subject to the law.
  • TER is registered in Cyprus
  • P411 operates out of Canada
  • ProtonMail operates out of Switzerland
ECCIE's days are probably numbered. I imagine the owners would sooner shut it down and try to setup shop in a country that's more friendly to sites like this rather than fight FOSTA/SESTA in the courts.

In any event, I would consider transitioning to services outside the jurisdiction of the US until the dust settles.
You don't need to be in the US to be charged with violating US law. It doesn't matter where the business is registered or where the servers are located, if a website has prostitution related content pertaining to US cities then it is subject to US federal prosecution.

El Chapo and Pablo Escobar got indicted by US courts without ever stepping foot on US soil.
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Old 03-23-2018, 05:16 AM   #10
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From articles: Craigslist will no longer display personal ads on its website after the Senate voted to pass the Stop Enabling Sex Traffickers Act yesterday. The bill means websites will be held liable for hosting sex trafficking content. It will also make it easier for victims of sex trafficking and prosecutors to sue companies that fail to keep exploitative content from their websites

So, I wonder if Tinder and Ashley Madison, etc. have the same concerns that someone might use their sites improperly.
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Old 03-23-2018, 07:54 AM   #11
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TERs U.S ads are down..
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Old 03-23-2018, 08:11 AM   #12
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I just found out through ter that they suspended ALL USA ads... heres what they said when I asked why I couldlt post on the upstate ny ads board ....................
Hi,


Currently the US ad boards are down pending further review of the recent law and its outcome.


Thank you for the support,
--TER Support Staff
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Old 03-23-2018, 08:24 AM   #13
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Well, with further restrictions on the ladies posting on the internet, will probably force more ladies onto the streets to make their living. The ones that have a steady clientel will be good for a bit without internet...
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Old 03-23-2018, 09:55 AM   #14
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I think this shot down as unconstitutional in the end. Not sure how long that takes.

I’m sad for the ladies around here. It’s going to be hard to continue in a safe way. Perhaps, though, this ultimately leads to a legalization of the hobby. Several European countries have done this and it works okay. The ladies have to see a doctor at least once a month to be certified/legal and part of that is a screening for trafficking.
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Old 03-23-2018, 02:49 PM   #15
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We'll have legal nationwide recreational marijuana before we ever see the hobby decriminalized.

Kudos, for the wishful thinking.

Sugar Daddy/Cheating websites are certainly in danger and reviewing the bill.

With CL taking down their personals I can see some major dating sites and apps shutting down because of the liability.

Tinder type places will be the last places to shut down.
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