Welcome to ECCIE - Sign up today!

grean · 03-21-2019, 08:17 PM

So it appears Trey took a shit and left it for us to step in.

themystic · 03-21-2019, 08:28 PM

People with guns kill people without guns. Lets all get guns

gnadfly · 03-21-2019, 08:35 PM

I hope you get a trip to New Zealand. Let it be via a Boeing 737 Max 8.

Yssup Rider · 03-21-2019, 09:01 PM

Classy.

Enchanterlingum · 03-21-2019, 09:59 PM

I met a man once who went on in life to kill his wife with a hammer. I have personally been struck by a car while walking across a parking lot. Should I blame hammers for killing that woman, or a car for striking me?

The notion of controlling guns in the United States was out the window when there were just a million of them in the country back in the early-1700s. 249,000,000 guns later, that genie isn't going back in the bottle. So let's focus on reality of what is actually occurring, and not on the inanimate object being used to do it.

rexdutchman · 03-22-2019, 07:54 AM

The news media is cuming all over now BUT BUT we have a Bill of Rights in our Constitution that protects a citizens right to keep and bear arms.
New Zealand doesn't

grean · 03-22-2019, 09:13 AM

I wonder what caused the New Zealand attacker to flee?

Hint: the attacker wasn't out of ammunition.

agrarian · 03-22-2019, 09:22 AM

I don't agree with this statement: Gun bans take self-protection from law-abiding citizens, and no criminal turns in a weapon.

More specifically, I don't agree with the first half of the statement. I am a hunter and have used guns all of my adult life. I'm comfortable with guns, and I understand the damage they can do. I am willing to endure a rigorous background check before being allowed to purchase a gun. Yes, some criminals will find ways to obtain guns, but I'm willing to endure the wait and scrutiny if it means it's more complicated for lamebrains and wrongdoers to obtain them, and I certainly don't want them to obtain guns through a lax legal routine. The argument made by anti-gun law people about criminals obtaining guns even if there are tough laws reminds me of the pro-choice movement's comment that if abortion isn't legal it will occur anyway in dirty backrooms. We need to make a mature determination as a society about whether or not we think there is an issue with the availability and ease of obtaining guns and if that relates to gun crimes and murders.

grean · 03-22-2019, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by agrarian

I don't agree with this statement: Gun bans take self-protection from law-abiding citizens, and no criminal turns in a weapon.

More specifically, I don't agree with the first half of the statement. I am a hunter and have used guns all of my adult life. I'm comfortable with guns, and I understand the damage they can do. I am willing to endure a rigorous background check before being allowed to purchase a gun. Yes, some criminals will find ways to obtain guns, but I'm willing to endure the wait and scrutiny if it means it's more complicated for lamebrains and wrongdoers to obtain them, and I certainly don't want them to obtain guns through a lax legal routine. The argument made by anti-gun law people about criminals obtaining guns even if there are tough laws reminds me of the pro-choice movement's comment that if abortion isn't legal it will occur anyway in dirty backrooms. We need to make a mature determination as a society about whether or not we think there is an issue with the availability and ease of obtaining guns and if that relates to gun crimes and murders.

Currently it's not too difficult for a law abiding citizen to buy a gun legally. It is very hard for a criminal to buy one legally.

Does anyone have that article where a reporter, trying to show how easy it was to buy a gun, got rejected?

There have been a couple of times where a felon got past the process, but that were exceptions not the norm.

I'm all about universally registering violent felons. I'm all about not letting violent felons get firearms.

Not a single proposed law will do that.

Jackie S · 03-22-2019, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by themystic

People with guns kill people without guns. Lets all get guns

I suspect in the near future, that senario will be playing out in Venezuela, since the citizens decided that the Government knew best, and only the Government should have guns.

The only reason Maduro hasn't decided to fire on the Drmonstrators yet is because he knows the World is watching.

But as the walls close in, he will give the order.

That's what Socialist/Communist Thugs do.

bb1961 · 03-22-2019, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by themystic

People with guns kill people without guns. Lets all get guns

Out of the mouths of babes...

oeb11 · 03-22-2019, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by agrarian

I don't agree with this statement: Gun bans take self-protection from law-abiding citizens, and no criminal turns in a weapon.

More specifically, I don't agree with the first half of the statement. I am a hunter and have used guns all of my adult life. I'm comfortable with guns, and I understand the damage they can do. I am willing to endure a rigorous background check before being allowed to purchase a gun. Yes, some criminals will find ways to obtain guns, but I'm willing to endure the wait and scrutiny if it means it's more complicated for lamebrains and wrongdoers to obtain them, and I certainly don't want them to obtain guns through a lax legal routine. The argument made by anti-gun law people about criminals obtaining guns even if there are tough laws reminds me of the pro-choice movement's comment that if abortion isn't legal it will occur anyway in dirty backrooms. We need to make a mature determination as a society about whether or not we think there is an issue with the availability and ease of obtaining guns and if that relates to gun crimes and murders.

I appreciate your measured, cogent debate, A. I own NFA weapons - a very rigorous back ground check. Never been a crime committed in US with a legally transferred NFA weapon.
Issue- how to better background screen legal weapons purchasers and maintain reasonable access by law-abiding citizens. There is great fear and distrust on the DPST side of AR-15 - which is just another rifle - not an assault weapon. There is great fear on the Conservative side of multiple political statements regarding gun confiscation from the populace.

Are gun banning laws effective in changing the crimes committed with guns - and how many are committed with legal v illegal weapons.
Chicago has some of the strictest gun laws - but gun crime is common - usually with illegally held weapons.

I agree with your last sentence - the devil is in the details of how to make that societal determination. The DPST Coasts are a very different culture and reality of living than the center of America in regards to holding and using firearms.

BTW -" The argument made by anti-gun law people about criminals obtaining guns even if there are tough laws reminds me of the pro-choice movement's comment that if abortion isn't legal it will occur anyway in dirty backrooms."

I must point out the equivalency is specious. I wish abortion never would be considered , but it is a legal option in America. I remember the days of Back-alley abortions- and have seen the deaths, mutilations, and consequences of back-alley abortions. It did occur - because there was a demand regardless that the procedure was illegal. If Abortion is made illegal in the US - there will still be a demand and back-alley abortions will occur. Abortion is medically much safer under legal circumstances.

grean · 03-22-2019, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oeb11

I appreciate your measured, cogent debate, A. I own NFA weapons - a very rigorous back ground check. Never been a crime committed in US with a legally transferred NFA weapon.
Issue- how to better background screen legal weapons purchasers and maintain reasonable access by law-abiding citizens. There is great fear and distrust on the DPST side of AR-15 - which is just another rifle - not an assault weapon. There is great fear on the Conservative side of multiple political statements regarding gun confiscation from the populace.

Are gun banning laws effective in changing the crimes committed with guns - and how many are committed with legal v illegal weapons.
Chicago has some of the strictest gun laws - but gun crime is common - usually with illegally held weapons.

I agree with your last sentence - the devil is in the details of how to make that societal determination. The DPST Coasts are a very different culture and reality of living than the center of America in regards to holding and using firearms.

BTW -" The argument made by anti-gun law people about criminals obtaining guns even if there are tough laws reminds me of the pro-choice movement's comment that if abortion isn't legal it will occur anyway in dirty backrooms."

I must point out the equivalency is specious. I wish abortion never would be considered , but it is a legal option in America. I remember the days of Back-alley abortions- and have seen the deaths, mutilations, and consequences of back-alley abortions. It did occur - because there was a demand regardless that the procedure was illegal. If Abortion is made illegal in the US - there will still be a demand and back-alley abortions will occur. Abortion is medically much safer under legal circumstances.

I enjoy the style and tone of your posts.

oeb11 · 03-22-2019, 11:47 AM

Thank You, Grean!

agrarian · 03-22-2019, 12:27 PM

I'm old enough to remember back-alley abortions, too. The point is, I think, that the reason to make choice an option isn't because abortion will continue to happen so let's at least allow it to happen under safe conditions. Keep in mind that if you oppose abortion (our president believes women should be treated as criminals if they have an abortion) the basis for that position is that it is immoral, irrespective of how "safe" the procedure is when legal. You don't allow something that you consider to be wrong if additional wrongs are additional potential behaviors. I happen to believe in choice, but it's a hard issue to get comfortable with. It's a one of those issues, like capital punishment, that I may struggle with for the rest of my life.

Back to guns: I happen to think that owning a gun for protection from the government is kinda crazy. Irrational. Owning a gun to protect my family from wrongdoers is another matter altogether. I won't hesitate to use my weapon on someone if they enter my home with criminal intent.