Quote:
Originally Posted by winn dixie
Hit close to home?
Whispers was a major contributor to this site with extensive knowledge. sesta/fosta is why this board changed its rules and format. Which led to an exodus of members. Wasnt other members or mods that caused it. By the way. fosta sesta mainly deals with trafficking!
Youre in over your head sir.
So which perma banned member are you?
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Hey WD, I’ve been following this (and related) threads with great interest. Human trafficking is a horror, one of the gravest of uniquely human sins. So much so it’s extraordinarily difficult to have even a low-touch, low-bandwidth bulletin board conversation … as has become abundantly clear. I can’t fathom the bar room brawl this could turn into were we – in a bar!
Thank you for provoking this important conversation. A conversation among people who should (and do) care. Folks who can do something about it: like refusing to fund it. Count me in! You obviously care as well.
Despite my interest in the topic and strong desire to do right by our providers, I’m finding it increasingly difficult to stay tuned in. As a matter of fact, I’m about to tune out. I’m writing this mostly as a plea to you:
Will you please consider toning it down? Consider getting back to contributing to the community’s pool of knowledge in a more constructive way? With more facts and less hyperbole?
Making the same point over and over again doesn’t make you more right (or more wrong). It just makes you sound shrill. The browbeating, sarcastic, illiberal, and bombastic behaviors only get in the way of what should otherwise be important messages. I know you’ve been the subject of many ad hominem attacks, but replying in kind only diminishes you. Makes you appear defensive and insecure. Constantly questioning others’ motives, or implying an (impossible) omniscience of others’ intent only make you appear weak. Ad hominem attacks and questioning others’ motives are the last bastions of weak and defeated arguments.
I prefer to stay engaged in this conversation. Continue following it. More fundamentally, I want to remain on ECCIE. Your behavior’s making it difficult.
I do not agree with many of your statements - especially the more blanket ones. Here’s my contribution on the merits. Perhaps not as fully informed as yours - perhaps more so. (I joined ECCIE in 2010. See that you joined in 2017.) Based on my experience as a hobbyist and as someone who ‘knows some of the girls’ – including owners and managers - here's what I think:
- many AMPs do not engage in trafficking
- many AMP providers are not trafficked
- many providers turn to this profession with full volition and freedom of choice – coming and going
- some providers find themselves in unfortunate life and financial circumstances and turn to this for the money
- regardless of the why, many make good money. Far more than what their other skills can earn. And it can be a shit-ton (as someone said earlier, more than many of us make!)
- some AMPs & some providers (and likely many of the so-called independents advertising on other sites) traffic and are trafficked
- and it appears there’s more trafficking than I’ve been aware of, and now I'm better informed on what to look out for
Today, Bagheera said,
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bagheera
Whispers successfully chased most reputable contributors to ECCIE off of it and onto other sites. Now Treetop and winn dixie are doing their best to chase the rest off.
Congrats!
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And you replied by with a chuckle-inducingly impotent, legalistic attack:
Quote:
Originally Posted by winn dixie
How do you know of Whispers? Your registration date is late 2020. He hasnt really been active since way before that!
So? Who did you used to be?
What other sites you speak of? That beta site where speech is suppressed unless youre in the owners inner circle.
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He lashes back at you and you attack again, “Youre in over your head sir.” [sic] (What does that even mean in this context BTW?). Your wheels then run into the ditch when you try deflecting blame on the point he’s making: that you (more accurately your behavior) and Treetop are ‘chasing the rest off.’
Yes, I believe it’s true that rule changes in light of SESTA & FOSTA drove many away. Perhaps accounts for the majority of departures. It’s a great point. A point I hadn’t before pondered. But it wasn’t shared in the spirit of giving. It was wielded to deflect personal accountability. I wasn’t fooled by this attempt to cloak yourself in a truth in the falsity of blamelessness. I doubt many others were as well.
I agree with Bagheera (albeit not expressed in the most constructive way). Speaking for myself, your behavior in these forums, and that of Treetop’s (thankfully banned), ARE in fact driving me away. And not just from this conversation. But from contributing on ECCIE. I’ve been away from the community for some time. Came back in recent months with every intent of getting back to contributing. I've withheld posting many reviews, largely (but not solely) because of the dynamics surrounding this crusading. So this is Bagheera, me, and several others all trying to tell you the same thing. Are you willing to listen?
Please Winn Dixie, I ask you to please hear me. Hear what your fellow ECCIE members are saying:
- many want to hear your information about the provider community and fact-based insights about human trafficking
- some (perhaps many) even want to hear your opinions about it -- without the mind-numbing, off-putting repetitiveness, bombast and churlishness
- most importantly, some (hopefully many) do not want to patronize traffickers and are hungry for facts and specifics. In this regard, please tell us for cry’s sake who is trafficking? Why are you withholding this information? Why all the two-stepping? The winking and nodding? Only engenders doubt in your good faith. Doubt about the accuracy of your claims.
On February 20, 2021 you posted, “I WAS in the spa game a long time! I know what really goes on.” I’ve valued many of your opinions – respected them – because of the experience you claim. Because some of what you say resonates with my own experiences. But WD – you have no corner on the market of provider information. No exclusive ownership of "the truth." No matter how many years you’ve been in the hobby, no matter how deeply involved in the AMP business, others have different and valid perspectives based on
their experiences. Experiences and perspectives I'm asking you to honor. Your fellow members are asking to honor. Information, insights and experiences
that you cannot possibly have possession of. Not through any fault or shortcoming. But because you are just one bloke. One of many. (Hopefully) trying your best to contribute in good faith.
And isn’t that the whole point of boards like ECCIE? Places where people of like interests can freely exchange their views? Where we all can contribute to the greater good? With the hope that facts, knowledge and reason rise to the top - multiplied many times over?
My perspective’s been broadened because of yours. Eyes more discerning as a hobbyist. For this I thank you. I do not want to fund trafficking. But I no longer wish to fund your lesser angles with my time and attention.
You attacked Bagheera on a picayune member profile stat. I note that your profile stats show 11,819 posts: 8.09 posts per day on average, every day of the year, for the past 4 years (to the day). This tells me you’re spending an awful lot of time and investing a lot of energy in an arena you claim is anathema to your being. This is puzzling. You have the zeal of the convert. The repentant sinner. And this gives me pause.
Please reconsider your approach WD. Because I really do want to hear more of what you have to say about human trafficking (at least more that is
new to share), and what others have to say - save the chair throwing and recycling.
Respectfully,
JS
