Imma B 1st to call it: NATO should invade Ukraine to assist Russia and the US should make them do so.

[dilbert firestorm]

if putin is thinking like this, he's crazy.

stupid excuse for what they're doing.

they can practice what they believe without invading another country to do it.

[Why_Yes_I_Do]

Russia still views Ukraine as Russia to some extent, especially in the historic and nationalistic senses. Here's an actually crazy thought: Let's blame Russia for inflation. Dumber still, let's blame them for the price of fuels. How about blaming Russia for everyone using Ukraine as the money laundromat? But wait, there's more, let's blame them for Trump for 5 years running.




Lot of crazy going on around these here parts

Originally Posted by dilbert firestorm

if putin is thinking like this, he's crazy.

stupid excuse for what they're doing.

they can practice what they believe without invading another country to do it.

[dilbert firestorm]

the problem with russia viewing ukraine as russian is that russia is ignoring certain realities with ukraine.

Ukraine maybe genetically russian, but is culturally different from russia, as is their language. there have been a series of notable events in the past that have caused Ukrainians want to separate from Russia.

[Chung Tran]

Nobody wins wars. What concessions does Ukraine need to offer? How does the Map change in a satisfactory way?

It's easy to say the War is fucking us all up, economically, and stop there.

[Yssup Rider]

Agreed.

[texassapper]

Originally Posted by Chung Tran

Nobody wins wars.

The German National Socialist workers party would like a word...

Originally Posted by Chung Tran

What concessions does Ukraine need to offer? How does the Map change in a satisfactory way?

Satisfactory to who?

Originally Posted by Chung Tran

It's easy to say the War is fucking us all up, economically, and stop there.

Well that's what you get when you have Democrats in charge of foreign policy...

[Why_Yes_I_Do]

Originally Posted by dilbert firestorm

the problem with russia viewing ukraine as russian is that russia is ignoring certain realities with ukraine....

That chite right there is actually the crux of the biscuit, i.e. that whole reality bit and whom is actually disassociated from reality. But yeah, you go stand with Ukraine Comrade. (not you personally DF)

Regardless, our spending of over US$63B on a corruption cover up operation is disingenuous at best. The 1hr 33 min video is at the bottom of the article below but will not embed directly here. BTW: The film was first published in 2016 but suppressed in the US. I wonder why?!?

'Ukraine on Fire': How US, Not Russia, Destroyed Ukraine - Oliver Stone Documentary
Sott.net
Fri, 12 Jan 2018 12:00 UTC



Oliver Stone's seminal documentary Ukraine on Fire has finally been made available to watch in the West.

Ukraine, the 'borderlands' between Russia and 'civilized' Europe is on fire. For centuries, it has been at the center of a tug-of-war between powers seeking to control its rich lands and Russia's access to the Mediterranean.

The Maidan Massacre in early 2014 triggered a bloody uprising that ousted president Viktor Yanukovych, spurred Crimeans to secede and join Russia, and sparked a civil war in Eastern Ukraine.

Russia was portrayed by Western media as the perpetrator, and has been sanctioned and widely condemned as such. But was Russia responsible for what happened?

Ukraine on Fire provides a historical perspective for the deep divisions in the region which led to the 2004 Orange Revolution, the 2014 uprisings, and the violent overthrow of democratically-elected Yanukovych.

Covered by Western media as a 'popular revolution', it was in fact a coup d'état scripted and staged by ultra-nationalist groups and the US State Department.

Investigative journalist Robert Parry reveals how US-funded political NGOs and media companies have emerged since the 1980s, replacing the CIA in promoting America's geopolitical agenda abroad.

Executive producer Oliver Stone gained unprecedented access to the inside story through his on-camera interviews with former President Viktor Yanukovych and Minister of Internal Affairs Vitaliy Zakharchenko, who explain how the US Ambassador and factions in Washington actively plotted for regime change.

And, in his first meeting with Russian President Vladimir Putin, Stone solicits Putin's take on the significance of Crimea, NATO and the US's history of interference in elections and regime change in the region.

The film was originally released in 2016, but unsurprisingly, Stone came up against problems distributing the film in the US and western countries. A Russian-dubbed version was available almost immediately and was aired on TV in Russia, but people in the 'free world' were left without access to the full film.

Now, at last, the full exposé is available. Though, of course, everyone is encouraged to purchase a copy to support Stone's important work...

[Why_Yes_I_Do]

The history maxim:
“Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it!" ~ George Santayana

In the below article there is a passing mention of "former NATO military analyst, The Saker (pseudonym)". One of his articles as an example:
The Russian military intervention in the Ukraine – a macro view

The below is not from The Saker as far as I know

Real revolution is the only thing that can save Ukraine from American chaos creation

Phil Butler
Near Eastern Outlook
Thu, 11 Jan 201812:00 UTC

Ravaged by the forces promoting conflict, a real change of government in Kiev is the only salvation for this long-suffering country

The junta currently in control of Ukraine is delighted U.S. President Donald Trump has become history's most dangerous loose cannon. The oligarch controlled media in Kiev began churning out the propaganda right after Trump approved a plan to provide lethal defensive weapons to the regime. The key weapons system involved, the Javelin anti-tank missiles caused a kind-of "new toy" delight from Ukraine's reporters. My country appears today as the international "pusher man" for an arms trade that tresembles the Columbia cocaine cartels. More importantly for the people of Ukraine is whether, or not, the liberal world cartel can be beaten back. Here's some thoughts on this.

Comment:The US decision to arm their puppets in the Ukraine will be disastrous

Stephen F. Cohen, professor emeritus of Russian studies and politics at NYU and Princeton recently called the "US-Russian proxy war in eastern Ukraine, a seminal event of the 21st century." The distinguished expert went on to describe the magnitude of this geo-political mess as a "toxic and dangerous", and a catastrophe that will affect international relations for a generation. Professor Cohen is absolutely correct, but is too dignified to simply spell out the fact that the people of Ukraine (and many of the rest of us) are now royally screwed for decades. Cohen's story appeared on The Nation, but his analysis rides the proverbial fence revealing the fact the U.S. supported liberal world order sanctioned this catastrophe for profit. I discussed their Ukraine/Eastern Europe strategy briefly in this piece on NEO the other day. The nitty gritty of the war on the Donbass is not that complicated. The guns, guts, and blood spilt on both sides of this implanted conflict are a new (perhaps) diabolical form of total war that includes psychological, tactical, and economic strategies to destroy and enemy. And that enemy is Russia.

Comment: Biden reveals in memoirs US meddling in Ukraine

My earlier reports have framed elements of the economic warfare levied on Ukraine and Russia, and how bankers like the Rothschilds, the Soros types, and corporations like Monsanto, Cargill, and DuPont have swooped in to pick at the bones of a shattered country. However, I am no soothsayer in all this. Anyone who studies the regime change in Ukraine knows this well. The big question that remains paramount is; "Can Ukrainians be rescued from the skullduggery and carnage?" If we are honest, the diagnosis for saving Ukraine is dismal. And when I say Ukraine I mean pro-Russia bastion that is Novorossiya in the east too. While scholars like professor Cohen do help people to understand conflicts like Ukraine, Libya, and Syria, their analyses their efforts at impartiality drown in the backwash of corporate propaganda in the west. Cohen and a few scholarly others end up beating around the bush on a geopolitical situation that is black & white. This is one reason the news (fake news) coming out of key situations is so one sided in America. When the bodies pile just so high, blue collar workers and geo-political gurus must take a side. Cohen and these others will have to sooner or later stand on either side of the fence. What's needed is a surgical, clinical, and calculating assessment of what was and is a systematic dismantling of the traditional order of things. Such an assessment in Ukraine may well reveal the motives, methods, and potential outcomes, and most assuredly who the real perpetrators are.

We already know Ukraine is being raped by the eastern and western oligarchs now. This report via The National Interest talks about the IMF's role in saddling Ukraine with incomprehensible debt forever. So, I won't delve into this aspect here. We also know the country will never be out from under the piling debts the Poroshenko regime is rubber stamping. The economic onslaught the liberal order has launched everywhere Russian interests lie, it's an easily definable narrative and mission. Let's just call this "sanction warfare." But, what about expert risk assessments on the potential for a military cataclysm? For this I defer to my friend and colleague, the now legendary former NATO military analyst, The Saker (pseudonym).

Comment: Secrets of the 'dead souls' of Ukraine's population

"You show me a capitalist, and I'll show you a bloodsucker" ― Malcolm X

Last month he published a full-fledged analysis entitled; "2018 - War or No War?" The study is extensive, but essentially points to the liberal world order's recuperation from the Hillary Clinton bust, and frames the probable strategies for renewed U.S. aggression worldwide. For the purposes of my editorial, a focus on only Ukraine and the embattled Donbass is necessary. In his analysis The Saker puts a heavy focus on the Neocons, which are for me just one component of the liberal world order cartel of families and banker henchmen. These "Neocons", and their London banker comrades are already engaged in the raping and pillage Ukraine with unheard of fearlessness. The Saker aptly describes their aggressive and now overt actions because of their belief that:

They can buy anybody
Those they cannot buy, they can bully
Those that cannot be bullied, can be killed
And that ultimately nothing can happen to them since they are immune.

As I write this, the sound of "cooing" and dancing in Kiev and the U.S. Senate echoes in the background. So, with this dastardly ambiance setting the tone, let's put some of this gargantuan mess in perspective.

First and foremost, we must address the question of whether or not there will be renewed war on the Donbass. For a first clue let's consider that even the American magazine Popular Mechanics is blushing over the effectiveness of President Trump's new toys for Ukrop Nazis. A few days ago, PM wrote that Trump's move was "an audacious geopolitical step", characterizing the new anti-tank missile:

"The Javelin is one of the deadliest anti-tank missiles ever designed and will bolster Ukraine's defenses in its military showdown with Russia. The sale is aimed squarely at Russia's large and powerful tank fleet."
...

[Why_Yes_I_Do]

Originally Posted by Chung Tran

Nobody wins wars. What concessions does Ukraine need to offer? How does the Map change in a satisfactory way?
It's easy to say the War is fucking us all up, economically, and stop there.

Well... here's a provocative answer regarding your two questions: Read the OP article - Duh. Though Kissinger and I disagree on what the resulting map should look like. Dahhh... what the heck does he know anyway?!?

If you wanna place bets on what is "important" for Russia, I would lay the big buck-a-roons on ocean access (beach front property). You know how they luv them some seaside resorts. Oh and something about shipping and commerce. That is not to say they have disregard for natural resources and such.

[Why_Yes_I_Do]

[Why_Yes_I_Do]

[dilbert firestorm]

We have fucked up priorities.

[texassapper]

Originally Posted by dilbert firestorm

We have fucked up priorities.

We don't. Our so called representatives do.

[dilbert firestorm]

Originally Posted by dilbert firestorm

We have fucked up priorities.

Originally Posted by texassapper

We don't. Our so called representatives do.

You know I meant them (we)!

[royamcr]

That would be wasteful since the wall would be falling down already.