Why St. Louis has so few

[evietaylor]

Originally Posted by plainjoe

Evie, you are correct, I stand corrected.
Yes, there are some quality ladies on BP, BUT the majority are not worth the time or effort to pursue. As you so aptly stated, much like the ladies screen, guys have to do our research to identify the wheat for the chaff and on BP there sure is a lot of chaff! I admit, I do go to BP once in a while and when I find an interesting lady, I do my research, research, and research - this site, TER, and if on P411, BINGO! As a verified hobbyist, it definitely makes the meeting the ladies easier.

Will try to make it out to the Gateway of the West in the future to see some of the cougarish, MILFy ladies...Evie, you are at the top of the list!

Thank you sir. I look forward to making your acquaintance, hopefully, soon.

[Bigh1955]

Originally Posted by Fortinbras79

OK...so this may have been discussed before, and I apologize if so, but I just spent the better part of an hour DROOLING over the girls in Chicago. Backpage, eros, and so on.

What gives? I know we are not quite as metropolitan of a city as Chicago, but it seems to me that Chicago has an inordinate number of highly attractive and affordable providers. How do we go about getting more in St. Louis?

For crying out loud there are only 26 ladies on Eros-Stlouis...that's just sad.

Thoughts?

I'm interested in what providers think about this as well.

Move to DFW! Check out how many ladies there are there!

[Citori]

Just wondering if any of the STL ladies ever join ECCIE chat?

Or is there another Chat site I should checkout when in STL?

[Guest091914]

I will be touring STL, MO Wednesday May 16, 2012 – Saturday May 19, 2012 J
Looking forward to having a great time during my visit

[mark1313]

But I've lived in Chicago, DC and Atlanta and have been fortunate enough to travel to San Diego, Dallas, Philly and Boston. There are many reasons why St. Louis is a very different sort of hobby community from even its cross state rival, KC.

1. Size does matter. Even when being generous in considering what falls in the "metro" area for STL, it's only 1/2 to 1/3rd an Atlanta or Dallas (by far my favorite places from a hobby perspective).

2. The corollary is there's not a whole lot of direct air connections into here anymore. Surf Eros in those big cities, and you'll find many, many traveling girls. That's particularly true in the big East Coast cities. There are many women who start the circuit in DC, hit Philly, NY, Boston, wash, rinse, repeat. While the competition is greater, the traveling girls can also make more money in those cities despite the higher costs. Maybe I'm wrong, and I'm sure Rory can correct me. (I actually almost ended up calling her for a date in Boston - if I remember right - instead of here, but the schedule didn't work).

3. Independents vice agencies. When I first moved to Atlanta, and I think this is still true, there were actually very few independents and a ton of agencies. DC was the opposite. We don't have any agencies (that I'm aware of) here in St. Louis. It seems like wherever local agencies thrive, you have a larger selection. Agencies, btw, don't have to mean high volume or low class. My ATF was with an Atlanta agency for years, and did so because of the hassles of screening, etc. Also, the agencies there move around constantly to avoid neighbors noticing, and bear those costs. She was still a low volume provider of phenomenal quality.

4. 3 is somewhat related to the prevalent LE environment. Here in St. Louis the impression I get is they are very aggressive. In almost all the other big cities, unless you draw a huge amount of attention to yourself that gets the neighbors wondering, there's a more "live and let live" attitude. Once again, that varies widely. Montgomery CO MD outside of DC is a lot like Maryland Heights. So is Gwinnett County east of Atlanta. Providers just learn to not set up shop there.

For me the issue isn't about upselling, or volume, etc., as much as its about quality and a wide variety of options. While quality certainly exists here, I do miss the days of having more options.

No truth here, just observations.

[TheodoreHashbrown]

Thought I would add my two cents here since I found myself thinking about this same topic recently.

To address mark1313's points above:

1. Completely agree. St. Louis is a small city which means there is a smaller pool of native hobbyists and providers. Fewer people = fewer possibilities.

2. Agree with this too. However, I know that a lot of well known ladies visit here on a regular basis and clean up. Ashley Taylor, Adriana Deville and Victoria Jolie all come to STL a few times a year just to name a few. A small provider pool means that there is a lot of demand for these ladies and they do book up quick when they visit.

3. Dunno here. Everyone has an opinion about the indy vs agency question. Personally I avoid agencies and prefer indys. It's true that there isn't any real established agency here in St. Louis. With the small community, I don't think a professional agency could base it itself here and do well. One thing I've noticed is that a lot of the best independent ladies started in agencies and moved on. I guess agencies are a good way for ladies who are thinking about becoming escorts to test the waters and see if it's right for them. Agencies = more providers.

4. Absolutely true that STL has it's no-fun-zones like many cities. However, maybe I am just out of the loop and ill-informed but I think things aren't as hot as they used to be. I could be wrong though. When you hear about the activity in the Indianapolis area, and now Ohio, it makes our neck of the woods seem relatively calm.

One factor too is that there is a low cost-of-living in this region, along with a lower average salary range that hobbyists will have to fool around with. St. Louis has a reputation of being "cheap" and I think this has something to do with it. 400/hr is something of a national average for rates. That sounds completely reasonable when I'm in Chicago, Las Vegas, or just about anywhere else. Here it seems kinda high.

One thing I've noticed too that I can't quite explain is that the ladies here tend to have more limited menus. That's a pretty broad generalization I know, but it seems to be the case.

What you have here then is a small city, that can be difficult to visit because of few direct flights, that has a small hobbyist pool, where guys aren't willing to pay what they will elsewhere. It's kind of a perfect storm that means STL is just not never going to be a major hobby town. However, I do love the exceptions (ladies) that prove the rule.

[mostlynormalstl]

While there are valid points in the previous 2 posts, I don't buy the "small city" argument. St Louis has a metro population of about 2.5 million ranking it roughly 19th or 20th largest metro area in the us (depending exactly how far out you include as metro).

Granted, StL is not Dallas, Atlanta, Houston etc., BUT...when compared to cities of comparable size i.e KC, Indy, etc, the hobby related choices/activities for St Louis is significantly lower. Frankly, it is what it is and I'm not sure any specific reason can be found.

A prime example is this board; KC, which is roughly the same size and demographic make-up, has roughly 80 showcases and verified eccie providers. That does not even include BP advertisers and those that do not use eccie.

By contrast, St Louis section has roughly 15 VP showcases (give or take). If you combined those, added all regular BP advertisers and those that only use other local sources, you could not come up with a combined 30-35 choices. Of those choices, many are barely worth even considering seeing based on menus (non gfe, rush type providers), bad business practices (upselling, clock watching etc). Some things just can't be explained, IMO.

That being said, I think there is one more thing that MIGHT have some bearing on the StL marketplace, and that is that you can go 10 minutes across the river and there are the most liberal strip clubs in the country (yes, I have researched and consider myself somewhat of an expert on this topic lmao). I am not saying that 20 minutes in a VIP room is comparable to spending an hour or two with a well reviewed provider, but does it have an effect? I don't know, but it's food for thought.

[evietaylor]

Originally Posted by mostlynormalstl

While there are valid points in the previous 2 posts, I don't buy the "small city" argument. St Louis has a metro population of about 2.5 million ranking it roughly 19th or 20th largest metro area in the us (depending exactly how far out you include as metro).

Granted, StL is not Dallas, Atlanta, Houston etc., BUT...when compared to cities of comparable size i.e KC, Indy, etc, the hobby related choices/activities for St Louis is significantly lower. Frankly, it is what it is and I'm not sure any specific reason can be found.

A prime example is this board; KC, which is roughly the same size and demographic make-up, has roughly 80 showcases and verified eccie providers. That does not even include BP advertisers and those that do not use eccie.

By contrast, St Louis section has roughly 15 VP showcases (give or take). If you combined those, added all regular BP advertisers and those that only use other local sources, you could not come up with a combined 30-35 choices. Of those choices, many are barely worth even considering seeing based on menus (non gfe, rush type providers), bad business practices (upselling, clock watching etc). Some things just can't be explained, IMO.

That being said, I think there is one more thing that MIGHT have some bearing on the StL marketplace, and that is that you can go 10 minutes across the river and there are the most liberal strip clubs in the country (yes, I have researched and consider myself somewhat of an expert on this topic lmao). I am not saying that 20 minutes in a VIP room is comparable to spending an hour or two with a well reviewed provider, but does it have an effect? I don't know, but it's food for thought.

Absolutely true. There are girls in some areas across the river who will give you a bj in the "VIP" room for 50 bucks or even less. If that's the only thing the gent cares about (forget her personality, intelligence, looks, GFE, etc.) then I guess that's a bargain. Ick.

[Jannisary]

The metro-east clubs do offer guys a cheaper outlet for sexual activities than seeing a typically priced escort. It is not always about cheap bj's either. A guy can go to Hollywood, Hustler, Pt's and as long as he's buying some drinks, stage tipping, and willing to get dances he can get attention from multiple beautiful ladies and take into account their personality, intelligence and looks to find the ones who are most enjoyable to spend time with. It is not always about just actual sex and that's true for escorts and dancers.

The clubs could also be having an effect on the provider side along with the customer side of the equation. A woman who is comfortable using her sexuality has a pretty wide variety of clubs to choose from in the area. A woman who may have become an escort if she lived in another area, has this wide variety of clubs to choose from instead. That's a though anyways.

[mostlynormalstl]

Originally Posted by evietaylor

Absolutely true. There are girls in some areas across the river who will give you a bj in the "VIP" room for 50 bucks or even less. If that's the only thing the gent cares about (forget her personality, intelligence, looks, GFE, etc.) then I guess that's a bargain. Ick.

Are you saying you don't want to go have a few cocktails and visit a VIP with me?

[boredinstl]

St. Louis has always been a lower activity area than other cities. I know that there has always been the ability to get girls out of the clubs on the east side, something that might not exist in other cities. I also know that over the years we have had places like Chameleon and Free Spirit that offered a very easy way to go get a release. Again something that I haven't heard talked about in other cities.

We used to have more activity on BP (CL before that) and we used to have more activity at the strip clubs. I go to the clubs now and most of the time they are dead. A lot of them don't have the quality of girls that they used to because of the lack of activity.

What I think has been missed in the discussion, is the negative economic impact that St. Louis has sustained on a continual basis over the last twenty years.

Ford plant shut down
Chrysler plant partially shut down
Southwestern Bell pulled out most of their operation to go to Dallas
TWA gone, American pulled out most of their operation
Multiple Steel plants shut down
McDonnell Douglas in the 80s employed over 40,000 now Boeing employess less than 20,000
The City of St. Louis owns between 50 and 60000 vacant buildings.
For each high paying job lost by one of these companies, economist say that you loose 2-3 additional jobs (bank tellers, restaurantes, retail, etc.)
Missouri has had a declining population most of which comes out of the St. Louis area. We also get to have one of the highest crime rates in the country. And since LEO is unable to prevent the murders and the drug traffic, they do tend to target the hobby here since it is easy to get a bust.

With all of that and what others have said to consider, over the last 20 years I have seen that everything goes in a cylce here and right now we are in the down side of one. Hopefully that will change in the near future.

Bored.

[altec269]

Originally Posted by evietaylor

Absolutely true. There are girls in some areas across the river who will give you a bj in the "VIP" room for 50 bucks or even less. If that's the only thing the gent cares about (forget her personality, intelligence, looks, GFE, etc.) then I guess that's a bargain. Ick.

I'm pretty sure looks and the sex are all that the vast majority of gents in the hobby are looking for. Personality, intelligence, her pretending she gives a shit about me can all add to the experience, but they they are a distant distant third to looks and sex.

[altec269]

Originally Posted by boredinstl

...
The City of St. Louis owns between 50 and 60000 vacant buildings.
For each high paying job lost by one of these companies, economist say that you loose 2-3 additional jobs (bank tellers, restaurantes, retail, etc.)
Missouri has had a declining population most of which comes out of the St. Louis area. We also get to have one of the highest crime rates in the ....

I agree, but just wanted to point out that Missouri does not have a declining population. Over the past 30 years we've added as many residents (about a million people) as New York in raw numbers as a percentage its much higher, 5% for NY vs a 20% growth for Missouri.

[boredinstl]

Let me clarify, I meant to say St. Louis, as in the city of, has had declining population (453,000 in 1980 319,000 in 2010), not the state as a whole.

That said, this year we lose a representative, meaning that as a whole what ever change in population we have, it is enough less than other parts of the country to warrant a change in our representation.

Bored.

Not to pick a fight here, but I wanted to see the numbers for myself. According to the US Census Bureau

New York Missouri
1980 2010 1980 2010
17,557,000 19,378,000 4,917,000 5,989,000

+1,821,000 +1,072,000
10.4% increase 21.8% increase

[ErectionDemolitionSpclst]

<<< Is not in based STL per se', but is close enough. Does that count as local? Yeppers, yeppers, indeed!


Love & Light,

Mary Magdalene