Welcome to ECCIE - Sign up today!

Wakeup · 11-18-2018, 10:00 AM

Last warning...

WTF · 11-18-2018, 10:10 AM

http://paysdefayence.free.fr/forets/...reddiamond.htm

Here is a great article on the very subject the OP started. There are a multitude of reasons why we are having more costly fires than ever before

Munchmasterman · 11-18-2018, 01:37 PM

I realize that post was longer than a tweet but you should have read the whole thing. Because you obviously missed me refuting everything you said.
You must be referring to the partial credit I gave for your 129 million answer.
We can go through it point by point if you want, but I'm sure you need to grade some papers.
This is a timely subject and still very current. Glad you posted the OP.
It's obvious there were a lot of misconceptions. Let's try and clear those up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_real_Barleycorn

Sounds like you just admitted everything,EVERYTHING, I said was correct...and you said I was wrong...I will waiting for that tearful apology.

Munchmasterman · 11-18-2018, 01:50 PM

I hope you found my information that refuted everything you said to be interesting and informative..i must say that you making light of the families that have lost loved ones or have loved ones missing to be offensive.
Even the president has shut his tweet hole and is visiting the affected areas. He even left his paper towels at home.
I saw an article that said some showers are possible a little later in the week. Let's hope they get them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LexusLover

That may explain the disappearance of the 100's of people that haven't been found. Tree huggers and owl spotters staying behind to salvage what they can. I appreciate dedication and perseverance when it comes to nature.

Besides there are some new voters waiting to sneak into the country to replace them.

Munchmasterman · 11-18-2018, 01:59 PM

Thanks for the post.
It's good to see acurate, on-topic information.

You wouldn't believe some of the posts that show up on here.

The new results based moderation on this thread has greatly improved it.

Oh, and "bahaaa (did I do that right?)"

Quote:

Originally Posted by WTF

http://paysdefayence.free.fr/forets/...reddiamond.htm

Here is a great article on the very subject the OP started. There are a multitude of reasons why we are having more costly fires than ever before

LexusLover · 11-18-2018, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_real_Barleycorn

....an environmentalist talk about other laws shot down by the California dems to go in and cut down the estimated 128 million dead trees to prevent fires. That, and two plus years of drought.

12Sept2017
https://www.doi.gov/sites/doi.gov/fi..._directive.pdf

13Feb2009
https://www.nifc.gov/policies/polici...ts/GIFWFMP.pdf

https://www.doi.gov/wildlandfire
Office of Wildland Fire, U.S. Department of the Interior

Quote:

The estimated number of wildfires for Federal, Tribal, State and local jurisdictions during Fiscal Year (FY) 2016 was almost 68,000 fires, which is 92% of the 10-year annual average. Across the U.S. more than 5.5 million acres burned in FY 2016, representing 79% of the national 10-year average. The U.S. is continuing to experience increasing frequency of large wildfires and longer wildfire seasons, which are now almost 3 months longer and in some parts of the country are all year round. The 2017 wildfire season is already upon us with early season fires breaking out in Colorado, the southeast, and the southern plains. Year-to-date, over 2.2 million acres have burned, 4 times the national 10-year average.

https://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebat...-prevent-fires

Quote:

Harvesting Trees Will Prevent Fires
H. Sterling Burnett

JULY 11, 2012

Quote:

While wildfires, per se, are entirely natural, the size, intensity and harm caused annually by the past decade’s forest fires are almost entirely of human origin: federal mismanagement of our national forests are to blame.

The U.S. Forest Service estimates that more than 190 million acres of public land are at risk of catastrophic fires, including 60 percent our national forests. Too many trees, too much brush, and bureaucratic regulations and lawsuits filed by environmental extremists are to blame. Timber harvests have plunged more than 75 percent from 12 billion board feet per year to less than 4 billion board feet per year. The result: historically large ponderosa pines which grew in stands of 20 to 55 trees per acre now grow (and burn) in densities of 300 to 900 trees per acre.

Increase and expedite logging, especially in forests where more timber is dead or dying than growing.
Twenty years ago, a wildfire exceeding 100,000 acres was deemed to be catastrophic. Today, such large-scale fires are the rule rather than the exception. For instance, in 1998 there were 81,043 wildfires, burning 1,329,704 acres; but in 2007, 85,705 fires burned 9,328,045 acres. In 2011, 74,126 fires left 8,711,367 acres in cinders – below 2007’s amount but still well above the average.

The fact is excessive fuel, and thus the fire hazard, can be reduced in three ways. First, is to use mechanical thinning of vegetation and logging. Second, is to use small “controlled” burns which, the Los Alamos fires of 2000 taught us, are inherently risky unless there has been some logging of the site before the fires are set. Failing to choose one of these options leaves only the “burn, baby, burn” result that we are currently witnessing.

Our forests, those who live near them, those who fight the fires, and the public who use the forest and pay the bills, deserve a forest policy that places public safety, environmental health, economic well-being and fiscal responsibility above the flawed ideal of “letting nature take its course,” held by powerful environmental lobbyists and the legislators and bureaucrats who crave their support. It’s time for the government stop fiddling as our forests burn, and tend to the public good. It must increase and expedite logging, especially in forests where more standing timber is dead or dying than growing and limit court challenges of forest management plans. Let the logging begin!

Trump? in 2012?

themystic · 11-18-2018, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LexusLover

12Sept2017
https://www.doi.gov/sites/doi.gov/fi..._directive.pdf

13Feb2009
https://www.nifc.gov/policies/polici...ts/GIFWFMP.pdf

https://www.doi.gov/wildlandfire
Office of Wildland Fire, U.S. Department of the Interior

Just another Trump failure. That seems to be a pattern with hateful people like Trump. They leave a trail of destruction everywhere the go. Thanks. I sure hope Putin gets Trump under control

dilbert firestorm · 11-18-2018, 06:53 PM

well, theres apparently different thoughts about how to prevent fires.

apparently one group says logging prevents fires, another says logging doesn't prevent fires.

the truth is somewhere in the middle. theres plenty of blame to be had on all sides.

who to believe..... hmmm...

now I understand that when lumbering, the branches that were cut from the trees were left behind after harvest. that's prolly a fail there. some lumbering companies clean up and others don't. it depends on the region I guess. then theres the raft of environmental regulations favored and pushed by environmental wackos that are counter productive in fighting fires.

Munchmasterman · 11-18-2018, 07:13 PM

Excellent.
You are learning how to cite. I really liked the one from the current administration dated Sept. 2017. It tells how everyone is working together to implament the current administration's plan.

Thanks for helping prove trump's policies have not decreased the fires.
I'm sure you remember that trump opened his tweet hole and blamed California for mismangement of trees on federal land. What a cocksucker. The camp fire, the largest in California's history, is on federal land. Land trump's policies are in effect on.
I did notice you didn't say anything about the high winds or the drought conditions.
Large trunks don't burn well without dry kindling to get them going and a lack of the normal rains at this time of the year, due to global warming according top climate scientists, has helped the fires spread. 150,000 acres gone to that cocksuckers policies.
All that federal land that it's his job to protect.
How ironic the douche-bag doesn't realize California's policies only affect 3% of the state.
He lies when somebody dies. But then you were mocking them when you got those 2 warnings. I guess we'll see if you've really changed.
You did well with proving it was trump's fault.
Maybe now you can dig up proof about global warming's effect on the fuel.

Lord knows there's enough proof for anybody looking for it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LexusLover

12Sept2017
https://www.doi.gov/sites/doi.gov/fi..._directive.pdf

13Feb2009
https://www.nifc.gov/policies/polici...ts/GIFWFMP.pdf

https://www.doi.gov/wildlandfire
Office of Wildland Fire, U.S. Department of the Interior

https://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebat...-prevent-fires

Trump? in 2012?

Munchmasterman · 11-18-2018, 07:18 PM

And I meant ask you why we should let temperatures do what they do but not leaving the forests alone?
They've been around long before man was.
Cite anyone you like for an answer to that one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LexusLover

12Sept2017
https://www.doi.gov/sites/doi.gov/fi..._directive.pdf

13Feb2009
https://www.nifc.gov/policies/polici...ts/GIFWFMP.pdf

https://www.doi.gov/wildlandfire
Office of Wildland Fire, U.S. Department of the Interior

https://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebat...-prevent-fires

Trump? in 2012?

themystic · 11-18-2018, 08:01 PM

Trump just said after visiting the wild fires, " I have a strong opinion, I want great climate" MCGA! President Putin. He promised it wont happen again

Ducbutter · 11-18-2018, 08:22 PM

"The Moon is moving away from the Earth by the same mechanism that makes the Earth move farther from the Sun. Our warmest weather, in this hemisphere, occurs when the Earth is furthest in its orbit from the Sun. In other words, our orbit around the Sun is expanding."

I'm not sure if you just phrased it poorly or if you actually don't have a grasp on the mechanics involved but a slightly expanding orbit is not remotely involved in our seasons. Earth's orbit is elliptical. Yes, it is true that we are farther from the sun during our summers in the northern hemisphere. The reason for increased summer temperatures is due to our axis of rotation being tilted towards the sun. Consequently, during the summer the northern hemisphere receives more direct sunlight. Notice that the sun is higher in the sky in those months. During our winters the sunlight is more oblique as we are tilted away from from the sun.
Interesting articles you cited but you seem to be conflating two different concepts.
Also, Greenland has gained around a trillion tons of ice and snow in the last 2 years. Based on forcasts I've seen I'll wager it will gain more this year as well. If the AMO is going into it's cool phase, as some scientists claim, you can certainly expect more of that. Will that make it warmer or colder? How will that affect the earth's axis of rotation?

LexusLover · 11-19-2018, 04:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ducbutter

"The Moon is moving away from the Earth by the same mechanism that makes the Earth move farther from the Sun. Our warmest weather, in this hemisphere, occurs when the Earth is furthest in its orbit from the Sun. In other words, our orbit around the Sun is expanding."

I'm not sure if you just phrased it poorly or if you actually don't have a grasp on the mechanics involved but a slightly expanding orbit is not remotely involved in our seasons. Earth's orbit is elliptical. Yes, it is true that we are farther from the sun during our summers in the northern hemisphere. The reason for increased summer temperatures is due to our axis of rotation being tilted towards the sun. Consequently, during the summer the northern hemisphere receives more direct sunlight. Notice that the sun is higher in the sky in those months. During our winters the sunlight is more oblique as we are tilted away from from the sun.
Interesting articles you cited but you seem to be conflating two different concepts.
Also, Greenland has gained around a trillion tons of ice and snow in the last 2 years. Based on forcasts I've seen I'll wager it will gain more this year as well. If the AMO is going into it's cool phase, as some scientists claim, you can certainly expect more of that. Will that make it warmer or colder? How will that affect the earth's axis of rotation?

I would respond, but it appears to be "off topic"!

LexusLover · 11-19-2018, 06:07 AM

On topic ... Trump vs. Forest fires:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/trevorn.../#662fc93c5f02

Quote:

360 Million Years Ago, The Earth Was On Fire

Quote:

Recent research from Southern Illinois University provides insight into the beginnings of the age of fire and terrestrial plants. Despite human's desire to control fire and forest destruction, it is a process that has been around for hundreds of millions of years. This process aids in fertilizing soils, regulating plant distribution, and aiding in biodiversity.

The findings reveal an onset of frequent and widespread occurrences of charcoal (a proxy for past fires) 360 million years ago. This, in fact, is 80 million years after terrestrial plants began to colonize earth at 440 million years ago. To understand the correlation we need to take a step back and discuss basic photosynthesis.

Then there was Trump!

And here's an "interesting" perspective of the current events .... NASA's involved ....

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/...ocious/567215/

California is crapping up the environment of the rest of the country .... go figure!

And know for "The Rest of the Story" ....

Quote:

But there’s something strange about these fires. Park Williams, a professor of biology and environment at Columbia University, told me that a wet spring normally makes for a calmer fire season. This spring, rainfall was adequate. And in 2017, the spring rains were enormous and excessive. Both fire seasons, therefore, should have subdued. But both seasons turned out to be anything but.

“Last year and this year we’ve seen giant outbreaks of fires in areas where you wouldn’t have expected it based on the soil-moisture balance,” Williams said in an email.

The following map, for instance, shows how soil-moisture levels in June 2018 compared to early summer moisture over the past 120 years. “The areas where we’ve been seeing big fires this year are generally dry,” he said. “But some [areas], including where the Carr fire is, are not even near record-breaking dry.”

More bullshit from the California Raisins .. blaming Trump!

For what ... a nonexistent "drought" in California?????

Munchmasterman · 11-19-2018, 08:57 AM

A couple of things.

My post is to a "denier".
He will not do anything with my cited info except try to prove it wrong. He is just learning to cite and just cited an article that trump's people took control of forest management. Federal forests that is. This OP is about liberal policies causing fires in California. ll has tried to muddy the water by bringing in the US in general but the OP is about California. I've refuted the OPs version of the facts.
I pointed out that the largest fire (in the state's history as well) is on federal land. Thus federal management was to blame (state ploicies are in control of 3% of California. 57% of California is federal land) if anyone. ll leaped in with proof the feds were following the correct methods, thus owning policy for trump. When I accept his fine research, suddenly I'm blaming trump. Well, he's right. I suddenly saw what he had been push. trump was as responsible as any. This completely debunked the OP. Now he has wandered off into lala land....off topic lala land at that. I'll report him after this post. He has had many warnings.
After responding to him, you responded to me. I'm not going to follow you off topic other than to tell you that your response to my cited facts flies in the face of them. I expected cites of yours to counter the ones I included from a respected university. Or if you didn't like that set I could show many many more. Most agree.
If want to argue along those lines, please start another thread. This is a hooker board. Your or my facts aren't facts untill we show where they come from. I showed my facts. Waiting on yours. In another thread.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ducbutter

"The Moon is moving away from the Earth by the same mechanism that makes the Earth move farther from the Sun. Our warmest weather, in this hemisphere, occurs when the Earth is furthest in its orbit from the Sun. In other words, our orbit around the Sun is expanding."

I'm not sure if you just phrased it poorly or if you actually don't have a grasp on the mechanics involved but a slightly expanding orbit is not remotely involved in our seasons. Earth's orbit is elliptical. Yes, it is true that we are farther from the sun during our summers in the northern hemisphere. The reason for increased summer temperatures is due to our axis of rotation being tilted towards the sun. Consequently, during the summer the northern hemisphere receives more direct sunlight. Notice that the sun is higher in the sky in those months. During our winters the sunlight is more oblique as we are tilted away from from the sun.
Interesting articles you cited but you seem to be conflating two different concepts.
Also, Greenland has gained around a trillion tons of ice and snow in the last 2 years. Based on forcasts I've seen I'll wager it will gain more this year as well. If the AMO is going into it's cool phase, as some scientists claim, you can certainly expect more of that. Will that make it warmer or colder? How will that affect the earth's axis of rotation?