Trump Nails It On SNL

[WombRaider]

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

People who are here illegally are criminals. They should be treated as such. Let the market determine wages. How can you say that farmers won't pay $8 per hour for Apple pickers, and it's good for illegals to pick them at $2 per hour? Then argue for a higher minimum wage? And don't you think it is quite racist to say "The white guy won't work for that wage, so let's hire the brown guys. They work cheap and we can make more money off them"? Why is a brown guy's labor worth less than a white guy? You guys are so fucking racist.

Show me where anyone said it was right... we're simply saying that's the way it is.

[CuteOldGuy]

Why do you support it, Wormby?

[DSK]

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

People who are here illegally are criminals. They should be treated as such. Let the market determine wages. How can you say that farmers won't pay $8 per hour for Apple pickers, and it's good for illegals to pick them at $2 per hour? Then argue for a higher minimum wage? And don't you think it is quite racist to say "The white guy won't work for that wage, so let's hire the brown guys. They work cheap and we can make more money off them"? Why is a brown guy's labor worth less than a white guy? You guys are so fucking racist.

Most Americans do not support free market capitalism, they think it is too cruel. Fortunately for them, our government takes care of them with printed money - for now.

[Jackie S]

My whole point in my post about this is every time people start talking about illegal aliens, or legal ones for that matter, taking "jobs", it's always the guy that picks you apples, or cleans your house, or mows you lawn.

I am simply making the point that in some regions of the Country, the Gulf Coast in particular, the "skilled Labor" jobs are now permiated with Hispanics in majority, and Asians in minority. You have to look hard to find a Caucasian on any job site. And this includes the supervisors.

I'm not saying it's right, I am simply stating the fact of the matter.

Go visit a location where a Strip Center is being put in, or a major Housing Sub Division. The guys that pour the slab, put up the framing, install the plumbing, run the electrical systems, install the air conditioning, put on the roof, do the floors, do the finish work......in all likely hood will be a Person of Latin American origin.

These are not "minimum wage jobs". They are the skilled jobs that our parents and grandparents used to do.

You can like it, or not like it. That's the way it is.

[shanm]

Originally Posted by Jackie S

My whole point in my post about this is every time people start talking about illegal aliens, or legal ones for that matter, taking "jobs", it's always the guy that picks you apples, or cleans your house, or mows you lawn.

I am simply making the point that in some regions of the Country, the Gulf Coast in particular, the "skilled Labor" jobs are now permiated with Hispanics in majority, and Asians in minority. You have to look hard to find a Caucasian on any job site. And this includes the supervisors.

I'm not saying it's right, I am simply stating the fact of the matter.

Go visit a location where a Strip Center is being put in, or a major Housing Sub Division. The guys that pour the slab, put up the framing, install the plumbing, run the electrical systems, install the air conditioning, put on the roof, do the floors, do the finish work......in all likely hood will be a Person of Latin American origin.

These are not "minimum wage jobs". They are the skilled jobs that our parents and grandparents used to do.

You can like it, or not like it. That's the way it is.

Those jobs aren't considered glamorous enough anymore. Hard labor might have been a respectable job in the past but not so much anymore, and it's often stigmatized.

The reason why hispanics are hired for those jobs is twofold.
One, they are the MAJORITY of the labor supply looking for those jobs, so it makes sense that the majority of the workers are hispanic. And two, honestly, in my personal opinion, (and I personally know many people in various fields with the same opinion) immigrants are usually much harder working.

What we can't deny on both sides is that most of us Americans come with a sense of entitlement . As such, working as a welder or a plumber isn't really anyone's dream job. They might pay slightly higher that what our parents earned back in the day, but if you consider the cost of colleges up from a 2000 a year to 40000 at a private institution, you can see why most people with options have to look elsewhere for better luck.

You compared a recent college grad making 30000 to an experienced laborer making 150000. How many years of experience did that Mexican have? 20? 30?

If you do well in college and start out making the national average of 45k, in 20-30 years, you should be making much much more than 150k. Heck, you can start out in Investment banking and be making that within your first year. Many of my friends did.

Of course there are examples of people stuck in dead end jobs making 50-60k after working 30-40 years. But those examples are a dime a dozen when it comes to the jobs you're talking about. Ultimately, theres no magic pill. Going to college will not unlock magical riches which you wont have to work for. Plenty of people go to college who have no business being there. They end up slaving away in the worst way possible, in a corner office or in their tiny little cubicle. But if you look at facts there is no question that going to college CAN give you a higher return, depending on how hard you work during and after. We can't really rely on personal anecdotes

[DSK]

Originally Posted by shanm

Those jobs aren't considered glamorous enough anymore. Hard labor might have been a respectable job in the past but not so much anymore, and it's often stigmatized.

The reason why hispanics are hired for those jobs is twofold.
One, they are the MAJORITY of the labor supply looking for those jobs, so it makes sense that the majority of the workers are hispanic. And two, honestly, in my personal opinion, (and I personally know many people in various fields with the same opinion) immigrants are usually much harder working.

What we can't deny on both sides is that most of us Americans come with a sense of entitlement . As such, working as a welder or a plumber isn't really anyone's dream job. They might pay slightly higher that what our parents earned back in the day, but if you consider the cost of colleges up from a 2000 a year to 40000 at a private institution, you can see why most people with options have to look elsewhere for better luck.

You compared a recent college grad making 30000 to an experienced laborer making 150000. How many years of experience did that Mexican have? 20? 30?

If you do well in college and start out making the national average of 45k, in 20-30 years, you should be making much much more than 150k. Heck, you can start out in Investment banking and be making that within your first year. Many of my friends did.

Of course there are examples of people stuck in dead end jobs making 50-60k after working 30-40 years. But those examples are a dime a dozen when it comes to the jobs you're talking about. Ultimately, theres no magic pill. Going to college will not unlock magical riches which you wont have to work for. Plenty of people go to college who have no business being there. They end up slaving away in the worst way possible, in a corner office or in their tiny little cubicle. But if you look at facts there is no question that going to college CAN give you a higher return, depending on how hard you work during and after. We can't really rely on personal anecdotes

While what you say is indeed true, the fact of the matter is the wages would rise to a level some white boy would do the job if no illegals were available. It is simple supply and demand. People don't want a shitty job as a plumber unless it pays well.

[i'va biggen]

Originally Posted by DSK

While what you say is indeed true, the fact of the matter is the wages would rise to a level some white boy would do the job if no illegals were available. It is simple supply and demand. People don't want a shitty job as a plumber unless it pays well.

white boy won't work for 150,000 a year? What is his name Trump?

[Rey Lengua]

Originally Posted by WombRaider

Exactly. And they have student loans they'll be paying back for 40 years. Working with your hands in this country has developed a stigma over time. Didn't used to be that way.

Is that why YOU'RE " a-chamed " about your ' handy work " there at the 'holes Mr, DOTY 2016 ?

[Rey Lengua]

Originally Posted by DSK

While what you say is indeed true, the fact of the matter is the wages would rise to a level some white boy would do the job if no illegals were available. It is simple supply and demand. People don't want a shitty job as a plumber unless it pays well.

Ekim tried out as an apprentice for the plumbers union and didn't last 2 weeks after they told him to quit biting his finger nails and he continued , with extreme passion , to do so ! They wondered why he was so eager to take all of the clogged toilet jobs !

[WombRaider]

Originally Posted by DSK

While what you say is indeed true, the fact of the matter is the wages would rise to a level some white boy would do the job if no illegals were available. It is simple supply and demand. People don't want a shitty job as a plumber unless it pays well.

$150K isn't enough for a white guy? Plumbers make an average of $50K in the US. Guys who are master plumbers can make well over $100K. At the end of the day, you're still a plumber. The people that have a problem with that will never seek that job path, illegals or no illegals.

[WombRaider]

Originally Posted by Rey Lengua

Is that why YOU'RE " a-chamed " about your ' handy work " there at the 'holes Mr, DOTY 2016 ?

Originally Posted by Rey Lengua

Ekim tried out as an apprentice for the plumbers union and didn't last 2 weeks after they told him to quit biting his finger nails and he continued , with extreme passion , to do so ! They wondered why he was so eager to take all of the clogged toilet jobs !

And this is a perfect example of the limits of your intelligence. We're actually trying to have a conversation about labor and wages in this country and these two posts are your contribution. Neither one has anything to do with what we are talking about and everything to do with gay innuendo and swishy-walking bullshit. We wonder why you ever try anymore. It's obvious you're a fucking moron.

[DSK]

Originally Posted by WombRaider

$150K isn't enough for a white guy? Plumbers make an average of $50K in the US. Guys who are master plumbers can make well over $100K. At the end of the day, you're still a plumber. The people that have a problem with that will never seek that job path, illegals or no illegals.

I'm referring to the entry level pay for unskilled workers entering a trade. It is negatively impacted by surplus labor, though the fact that one guy rose up to make 150 grand a year might entice a few people to accept low wages to move up the ladder.

I think we should all look at Switzerland to see how a country should be run. I'll bet plumbers, electricians, and highway workers get paid well there, and get a good starting wage and don't have to compete against huge amounts of immigrants.

I think we should allow any journalist from any country to come to the United States, though, as long as they take only jobs related to journalism. Freelance, copy boy, editor, opinion writer -etc - let's flood the market with low paid journalists - what do you think? (Yes, I got the idea from Ted Cruz)

[shanm]

Originally Posted by DSK

While what you say is indeed true, the fact of the matter is the wages would rise to a level some white boy would do the job if no illegals were available. It is simple supply and demand. People don't want a shitty job as a plumber unless it pays well.

Not necessarily. The higher paying jobs come with experience. Without experience the average pay will still be low. You say its simple supply and demand, but you forget that it not only depends on supply but on wages and demand as well. Depending on their elasticity, which, I'd say, demand for physical labor jobs is relatively elastic. You can argue otherwise but I'd say that skills such as roofing, plumbing etc are relatively easy to learn compared to, for example, engineering or law.
So if the price goes up you can see a much higher decline in employment. Again I say, this is figuratively the same example that repubtards use for minimum wage, except only they flip it on its head. Higher wages = less jobs. You can't have it both ways or whenever, wherever it suits your argument.

[DSK]

Originally Posted by shanm

Not necessarily. The higher paying jobs come with experience. Without experience the average pay will still be low. You say its simple supply and demand, but you forget that it not only depends on supply but on wages and demand as well. Depending on their elasticity, which, I'd say, demand for physical labor jobs is relatively elastic. You can argue otherwise but I'd say that skills such as roofing, plumbing etc are relatively easy to learn compared to, for example, engineering or law.
So if the price goes up you can see a much higher decline in employment. Again I say, this is figuratively the same example that repubtards use for minimum wage, except only they flip it on its head. Higher wages = less jobs. You can't have it both ways or whenever, wherever it suits your argument.

I would end up somewhere in the middle. While the demand for physical labor may be elastic, it breaks the rubber band with a gross oversupply.
While it may be easy to fake being a good plumber by wearing overalls and acting like one, good workmanship is rare in all the skilled trades, and usually takes years of training. Why bother if you are going to be replaced easily at the beginning?

Although I philosophically disagree with the government intrusion into the free market with a minimum wage, I actually support it now because it will help undermine the illegal market by making them valuable only if they undercut the minimum wage, which will rally the public against them.

[Jackie S]

Most licensed Plumbers and Electritians make a very good upper middle class wage.

Of course. There is more to being a licensed Electrian than simply owning a screwdriver and knowing not to touch two wires at once, and more to being a licensed Plumber than knowing Shit flows down hill and Fridays payday.