Are You SURE About 9-11?

[CJ7]

The first President Bush and his Secretary Of Defense, Dick Chenney started the military gutting on the heels of Reagans cold war to reduce spending and lower the deficit trying desperately to avoid tax hikes ... to no avail.

Clintons CIA was strong enough to provide him with intel regarding Bin Laden, at which point the republican congress balked and tried to block Clinton at every turn.


Congrats IB, your spin has come full circle ... you've caught your tail.

[CJ7]

Originally Posted by I B Hankering

You have not acknowledged with a single word - per Tenet's testimony - that by 1995 Clinton had gutted the CIA crippling its ability to gather intelligence! Your cite is a liberal rant, so STFU!

pardon me for not addressing Tenent, his credibility is tantamount to yours ... little wonder you offer him as a source.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cIo33eVSKg

[I B Hankering]

Originally Posted by CJ7

The first President Bush and his Secretary Of Defense, Dick Chenney started the military gutting on the heels of Reagans cold war to reduce spending and lower the deficit trying desperately to avoid tax hikes ... to no avail.

Clintons CIA was strong enough to provide him with intel regarding Bin Laden, at which point the republican congress balked and tried to block Clinton at every turn.

Congrats IB, your spin has come full circle ... you've caught your tail.

You are still in denial. Clinton played a significant part in the intelligence failure. The terrorists were granted visas into this country on Clinton's watch. The terrorists lived, spied and trained in this country on Clinton's watch. Clinton and a Democratic Congress (Democrats were in control of Congress - except for a hiccup in the Senate during the Reagan years - since the Eisenhower administration) continued to gut the CIA for the first two years of Clinton's first term handicapping the gathering of intelligence. It was after the Republicans had taken charge of Congress (1995), according Tenet's testimony, that Tenet was able to begin rebuilding the CIA. You have not disproved any of those facts.

[CJ7]

The terrorists were granted visas into this country on Clinton's watch. The terrorists lived, spied and trained in this country on Clinton's watch

except for the ones who came in on Bush's watch and carried out the hit.

Tenet is a proven liar, he has no credibility

[CJ7]

Of the 15 hijackers who obtained their non-immigrant visas in Saudi Arabia, the U.S. official says, 11 received them before the Visa Express program was put into place, in June. The three Saudi nationals who obtained visas through the express program were:
Abdulaziz Alomari, about 28 years old. According to the Justice Department, he arrived in the U.S. on a tourist visa in June 2001. The FBI has identified Alomari, a pilot, as one of five hijackers who boarded American Airlines Flight 11 in Boston. The plane crashed into the north tower of the World Trade Center at 8:45 a.m. Officials believe that Mohammed Atta, the suspected ringleader, was at the controls.
Khalid al-Midhar, 25, who, the Justice Department says, arrived in the U.S. in July 2001, traveling on a business visa. The FBI believes that al-Midhar was one of five men who hijacked American Airlines Flight 77 and crashed it into the Pentagon.
Salem Alhamzi, 20, who arrived in the U.S. June 2001, traveling on a tourist visa, according to the Justice Department. Alhamzi also was aboard the American Airlines jet that slammed into the Pentagon.
A fourth suspected hijacker, Saeed Al-Ghamdi, received his visa after the Visa Express program was started. The U.S. official says the man was "a walk-in" at a State Department office in Saudi Arabia and was apparently interviewed by a consular officer.
The official says that the names of the four men--and the names of all the hijackers who obtained their U.S. visas in Saudi Arabia--were run through the State Department's CLASS database (for Consular Lookout and Support System). The database contains regularly updated records and intelligence information on foreign nationals. "There was no derogatory information in the files,'' the official said

[Grifter]

One point I dont see mentioned is that under Regan we got really obsessed with techint and we got away from the humint side of things, rebuilding networks of information gathering human sources takes a lont time to set up and make productive.

[I B Hankering]

Originally Posted by CJ7

Tenet is a proven liar, he has no credibility

So you say. Clinton trusted him enough to pick him.

[I B Hankering]

Originally Posted by Grifter

One point I dont see mentioned is that under Regan we got really obsessed with techint and we got away from the humint side of things, rebuilding networks of information gathering human sources takes a lont time to set up and make productive.

Would you please provide a cite.

[I B Hankering]

Originally Posted by CJ7

Of the 15 hijackers who obtained their non-immigrant visas in Saudi Arabia, the U.S. official says, 11 received them before the Visa Express program was put into place, in June. The three Saudi nationals who obtained visas through the express program were:
Abdulaziz Alomari, about 28 years old. According to the Justice Department, he arrived in the U.S. on a tourist visa in June 2001. The FBI has identified Alomari, a pilot, as one of five hijackers who boarded American Airlines Flight 11 in Boston. The plane crashed into the north tower of the World Trade Center at 8:45 a.m. Officials believe that Mohammed Atta, the suspected ringleader, was at the controls.
Khalid al-Midhar, 25, who, the Justice Department says, arrived in the U.S. in July 2001, traveling on a business visa. The FBI believes that al-Midhar was one of five men who hijacked American Airlines Flight 77 and crashed it into the Pentagon.
Salem Alhamzi, 20, who arrived in the U.S. June 2001, traveling on a tourist visa, according to the Justice Department. Alhamzi also was aboard the American Airlines jet that slammed into the Pentagon.
A fourth suspected hijacker, Saeed Al-Ghamdi, received his visa after the Visa Express program was started. The U.S. official says the man was "a walk-in" at a State Department office in Saudi Arabia and was apparently interviewed by a consular officer.
The official says that the names of the four men--and the names of all the hijackers who obtained their U.S. visas in Saudi Arabia--were run through the State Department's CLASS database (for Consular Lookout and Support System). The database contains regularly updated records and intelligence information on foreign nationals. "There was no derogatory information in the files,'' the official said

In the early summer of 2000, the Hamburg group arrived in the United States to begin flight training. Marwan al Shehhi came on May 29 [2000], arriving in Newark on a flight from Brussels. He went to New York City and waited there for Mohamed Atta to join him. . . .

Atta and Shehhi had not settled on where they would obtain their flight training. In contrast, Ziad Jarrah had already arranged to attend the Florida Flight Training Center (FFTC) in Venice, Florida. Jarrah arrived in Newark on June 27 [2000] and then flew to Venice. He immediately began the private pilot program at FFTC, intending to get a multi-engine license. Jarrah moved in with some of the flight instructors affiliated with his school and bought a car.

While Jarrah quickly settled into training in Florida, Atta and Shehhi kept searching for a flight school. After visiting the Airman Flight School in Norman, Oklahoma (where Zacarias Moussaoui would enroll several months later and where another al Qaeda operative, Ihab Ali, had taken lessons in the mid1990s), Atta started flight instruction at Huffman Aviation in Venice, Florida, and both Atta and Shehhi subsequently enrolled in the Accelerated Pilot Program at that school. By the end of July, both of them took solo flights, and by mid-August they passed the private pilot airman test. They trained through the summer at Huffman, while Jarrah continued his training at FFTC. . . .

In mid-September [2000], Atta and Shehhi applied to change their immigration status from tourist to student, stating their intention to study at Huffman until September 1, 2001. In late September, they decided to enroll at Jones Aviation in Sarasota, Florida, about 20 miles north of Venice. . . .

In 1996, Hanjour returned to the United States to pursue flight training, after being rejected by a Saudi flight school. He checked out flight schools in Florida, California, and Arizona; and he briefly started at a couple of them before returning to Saudi Arabia. In 1997, he returned to Florida and then, along with two friends, went back to Arizona and began his flight training there in earnest. After about three months, Hanjour was able to obtain his private pilot's license. Several more months of training yielded him a commercial pilot certificate, issued by the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) in April 1999. . . .

The three pilots in Florida continued with their training. Atta and Shehhi finished up at Huffman and earned their instrument certificates from the FAA in November. In mid-December 2000, they passed their commercial pilot tests and received their licenses. They then began training to fly large jets on a flight simulator. At about the same time, Jarrah began simulator training, also in Florida but at a different center. By the end of 2000, less than six months after their arrival, the three pilots on the East Coast were simulating flights on large jets. . . .

KSM sent the muscle hijacker recruits on to Saudi Arabia to obtain U.S. visas. He gave them money (about $2,000 each) and instructed them to return to Afghanistan for more training after obtaining the visas. At this early stage, the operatives were not told details about the operation. The majority of the Saudi muscle hijackers obtained U.S. visas in Jeddah or Riyadh between September and November of 2000. . . .

http://govinfo.library.unt.edu/911/r...Report_Ch7.htm