RIP

[Agreen7]

Originally Posted by JRLawrence

Let's be specific. I did not say lynchings, you said they were hung and I questioned that, and still do. The 1964 (Mississippi Burning) cases where the guys were buried in the dam were not hung. They were chased down by some who were involved in Law Enforcement after being released from jail. The newspapers at that time reported that they had been shot.

I know there were at least two other lynchings after 1960 that were race related, and others that were related to homosexual cases. Perhaps you would help by taking the time to look up if there were any hangings after 1960.

Just trying to stay on the facts you brought up and avoid the hysteria and exaggerated emotions about a serious and important matter for everyone.



The 20s and 30s were bad. It was better in the 60s, after Johnson signed the legislation, and has gotten better since. Although better, we still have improvement to make, for everyone.

JR

Whether black people were being hung from trees, beat or shot to death in the 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s or 60s, my point is that up to when Ali was drafted, this country had a pretty shitty record of treating people of color unfairly. Yes, LBJ's voting right bill was huge, and things may have been changing, but the fact remains that black men and women were treated very differently than whites even in the 60s.

I've read books and watched footage of high school and college integration where black students where called every curse word in the book, hit with foreign objects and even spit on when they stepped foot on campus. Even though blacks were able to vote, there were many places in the south like Louisville where Ali was raised, that used intimidation and scare tactics that prevented many blacks from voting. Ali took a stand, and many whites will never forgive him for that and they never tell the whole story. They just say he's a coward. Cowards run, he stayed and faced the consequences of his choice not to fight in a war against people that didn't do anything against him or his race.

Jr, I commend you for everything you did to help race relations. I think that is awesome! However, as a white person, you can truly never understand what blacks have gone through in this country and the challenges we continue to face. That's why you can look at this discussion with no emotion. I am a black man, so I'm totally emotional about it. And I fear that's where the disconnect is. Be Well.

[dirty dog]

Originally Posted by Agreen7

Whether black people were being hung from trees, beat or shot to death in the 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s or 60s, my point is that up to when Ali was drafted, this country had a pretty shitty record of treating people of color unfairly. Yes, LBJ's voting right bill was huge, and things may have been changing, but the fact remains that black men and women were treated very differently than whites even in the 60s.

I've read books and watched footage of high school and college integration where black students where called every curse word in the book, hit with foreign objects and even spit on when they stepped foot on campus. Even though blacks were able to vote, there were many places in the south like Louisville where Ali was raised, that used intimidation and scare tactics that prevented many blacks from voting. Ali took a stand, and many whites will never forgive him for that and they never tell the whole story. They just say he's a coward. Cowards run, he stayed and faced the consequences of his choice not to fight in a war against people that didn't do anything against him or his race.

Jr, I commend you for everything you did to help race relations. I think that is awesome! However, as a white person, you can truly never understand what blacks have gone through in this country and the challenges we continue to face. That's why you can look at this discussion with no emotion. I am a black man, so I'm totally emotional about it. And I fear that's where the disconnect is. Be Well.

Well I am glad you read books and watched videos, I am sure you are much more informed then the people who lived that time frame.

[Savannah Moon]

Originally Posted by JRLawrence

"It's God, Corp, Country right?"

Nope! we were taught that it was: God, Family, Country, and Corps; and that the loyalty of every US Marine was in that specific order. The Corps is labeled "first to fight", but they also taught the importance of the order of what we should be loyal.

"that is a mainstay for almost every 1st year MBA student"

I have an MBA, we never studied Ali in any way. We had to do a lot of other reading, including 60 books for one course. But Ali, nope!

JR

He is much younger than you..PERHAPS that has a lot to do with that..just can almost bet on that one!
Not to mention ..different quality of universities

& Johnyretard
Don't twist my words ..be smarter than that..just a suggestion.

Agreen7
You are correct plenty of women would be happy to see you...
And I still stand firmly saying that Muhammad Ali is a personal hero of mine and I don't give a flip and crap what anybody thinks about that ... do what you want with it and that is coming from a woman who grew up in the era and is a tribal enrolled Native American
People who dont flock in childish cliques are PERFECTLY FINE when others don't. like what they do..
And I just KNOW with all of my being ..his daughter was Proud of her father..can you say that?
Just a lil food for thought

[Agreen7]

Originally Posted by dirty dog

Well I am glad you read books and watched videos, I am sure you are much more informed then the people who lived that time frame.

Damn Sherlock, That's what books are for! Education is a beatiful thing isn't it? The fact remains that these things occurred right here in the good old USA. Whether I lived in that time or not. I'm sure Jr would agree. Read a book Sir and be well.

[JRLawrence]

Originally Posted by Agreen7

Whether black people were being hung from trees, beat or shot to death in the 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s or 60s, my point is that up to when Ali was drafted, this country had a pretty shitty record of treating people of color unfairly. Yes, LBJ's voting right bill was huge, and things may have been changing, but the fact remains that black men and women were treated very differently than whites even in the 60s.

I'lave read books and watched footage of high school and college integration where bck students where called every curse word in the book, hit with foreign objects and even spit on

What is important, and the reason I have taken the time to write, is that in any sensitive discussion all of us must stick to the facts and avoid hysteria and panic. Panic and hysteria solves nothing. I don't think there were any "hangings" after the civil rights bill was signed. There was a lot of other crap that went on.

However, I did read a lot during this period that I lived through. It was growing pains for the whole country. It was manipulated politically by many, and many blacks still don't understand that they were politically used and influenced by propaganda. In polite society we can call it advertising, publicity, spin and disinformation. It is true that in all cases; information and promotion are used to control people. So, who gained from this? Think about it. How could this mess have been approached differently?

One thing all should realize that this period was made more difficult, both for race relations and the war, because of the efforts of North Vietnam to influence American Society. It worked because the lit the match that started the fire that continues to this day. The war was a problem piled upon other problems.

My conclusion: don't get carried away. but remain calm and reflect on what may be happening behind what seems to be obvious.

I remember "Brown vs. The Board of Education" because when the next school year opened the black kids and the white kids were able to go to school together. The guys I was in little league baseball, and Boy Scouts, with were now in the same school with the white kids.

We were all just kids, and race didn't mean anything to us. In our small town, we were somewhat isolated from the larger cities with problems. We all read, and talked about it.

We have come a long way in a short 62 years since Brown Vs The Board of Education (Topeka, KS 1954)

JR

[dirty dog]

Originally Posted by Agreen7

Damn Sherlock, That's what books are for! Education is a beatiful thing isn't it? The fact remains that these things occurred right here in the good old USA. Whether I lived in that time or not. I'm sure Jr would agree. Read a book Sir and be well.

Suck another dick and be well.

[Savannah Moon]

Originally Posted by Savannah Moon

He is much younger than you..PERHAPS that has a lot to do with that..just can almost bet on that one!
Not to mention ..different quality of universities

& Johnyretard
Don't twist my words ..be smarter than that..just a suggestion.

Agreen7
You are correct plenty of women would be happy to see you...INCLUDING Me
And I still stand firmly saying that Muhammad Ali is a personal hero of mine and I don't give a flip and crap what anybody thinks about that ... do what you want with it and that is coming from a woman who grew up in the era and is a tribal enrolled Native American
People who dont flock in childish cliques are PERFECTLY FINE when others don't. like what they do..
And I just KNOW with all of my being ..his daughter was Proud of her father..can you say that?
Just a lil food for thought

Peace out..
Going to PUMP IT UP

[Agreen7]

Originally Posted by dirty dog

Suck another dick and be well.

You thought of that all on your own? Not the sharpest tool in the tool box are you?

[Savannah Moon]

Originally Posted by JRLawrence

So, any chance of a a discount for a Disabled Vet?

JR

I would be more than happy to!
You could SPANK me because I dont have slew approved heroes LOL
That would teach me!!
MUAH💋

[dirty dog]

Originally Posted by Agreen7

You thought of that all on your own? Not the sharpest tool in the tool box are you?

Your right, because you read books and watch videos.

[Agreen7]

Originally Posted by dirty dog

Your right, because you read books and watch videos.

That's right, now you're learning. Not as slow as I thought📚

[malwoody]

Originally Posted by zeejoe

Fascinating how the passage of time tempers the fact, much like JFK, that roughly 50% of the country absolutely hated this man's guts.

While I don't share any of the real vitriol myself, i'm an army brat who later served, and I was raised in an officer's household. You couldn't bring up this man's name without a lecture.

Air Force brat here.. In my family, both of my grandfathers maintained that either Jack Dempsy or Rocky Marciano would have kicked ALIs ass...LMAO.
My father on the other hand who boxed in college and the service said from the beginning that Ali was the best heavyweight he had ever seen. There were indeed some spirited debates especially after a few drinks. I remember my dad saying that Ali was a heavyweight with middleweight speed. After the first Liston fight he said that as soon as "Clay learned how to box, he will be unbeatable"..

Originally Posted by zeejoe

Always draggin' his 3-word agendas onto the board!

Man...I didn't think it would cause such heated back and forth..LOL

Might be that several in this thread need to be gettin sum wild stuff...haha

[malwoody]

Webster says

"a person, typically a man, who is admired or idealized for courage, outstanding achievements, or noble qualities."

That's the objective viewpoint. Obviously some subjectively disagree. Ms Moon did say he was her "personal hero". IMO that is her personal right. With respect Ali was not my hero necessarily but given his resolve to stick to his beliefs it's hard to deny that he had courage. During his prime no less..

Like Ali this gentleman lost 4 of his prime years with service to his country. I had the good fortune to get to know him while working for a company that was a vendor to his business. He remains the best example of a "mans man" I have had the pleasure to know.
RIP Hank
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hank_Bauer

For anyone who is not interested in reading the whole article, my favorite quote:
"Hank lost four prime years from his playing career due to his Marine service. This is heavy duty when you figure such a career is usually over when a player reaches his mid-thirties. This is something that does not bother Hank. "I guess I knew too many great young guys who lost everything out there to worry about my losing part of a baseball career", he says.—From the book Semper FI, MAC, by Henry Berry"

A true patriot

[dirty dog]

Originally Posted by Agreen7

That's right, now you're learning. Not as slow as I thought📚

You probably even wrote a term paper about the civil rights movement, your a freakin expert I bow to your intellectual superiority.

[Agreen7]

Originally Posted by dirty dog

You probably even wrote a term paper about the civil rights movement, your a freakin expert I bow to your intellectual superiority.

Ok genius, yes I did right a dissertation about the civil rights movement at a place you probably don't know very much about, it's called a college. In addition, I happen to be black and my parents and grandparents like Jr. Lawrence lived through the civil rights movement and they have given me first hand accounts of how they were treated as black Americans.

Hopefully I've been able to give you a better understanding of my perspective. If not, oh well. Sorry I don't have any pictures for you as I'm sure you are having difficulty reading and comprehending this.