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Mention clean sheets and a kindergarten teacher and you're bound to get someone's attention! Really, though, I appreciate your feedback and I'll appreciate your feedback much more while I get reamed in the AM by all the rest, no doubt. =)
Thank you for a well thought out post that outlines a number of economic factors that most hobbyists probably haven't ever considered. Your description of pricing models and scarcity are spot on--take that from a guy who used to teach the dismal science at a university.
I have heard similar discussions on price points from some local providers looking to reduce the number of clients they see and other providers looking to increase their business. The same goes for hobbyists in selecting providers for appointments.
If the lady is priced too high for the services provided or doesn't bring what you want to a session, then pass on her and move on to a lady that does. If you want to see a particular lady who is priced above what you would normally pay, then look for a special; or see her once at her price and make it known that you would like see her again but that you can't sustain her advertised rate. You never know, YOU may bring something to the session that will motivate her to allow you a special rate for future sessions. If not, then move on but watch for her to provide a special rate if she is not getting the number of clients desired.
We all should understand the market factors and act accordingly. I believe there is room for some price negotiation, but not haggling. Price should be clear to both provider and hobbyist prior to the start of a session, as well as how long the session will go.
Everyone should treat each other with respect (both in sessions and on the boards), with an eye toward repeat visits by the hobbyist and positive referrals to others by the provider.
Jenns, a number of the other factors you list are also true for many hobbyists. We need to buy cloths for work, pay for transportation to our jobs, maintain cell phones for work, etc. Many of the factors related to prep time and costs of incall are valid but unique to the hobby and they should be considered and respected by hobbyists.
Your points on the fixed amount of time it takes to set up for a session are valid and provide a frame of reference for hhr rates that are higher than the hourly rates. The same logic should hold true for reduce hourly rates for 90/120 minute sessions. During longer sessions, the fixed costs are spread over a greater amount of time, but the variable cost (e.g., time paid for a shared incall by the hhr) are directly proportional to the time spent in session.
If a hobbyist wants to pay less, then he may find options on BP and at incalls in the Vagina Triangle. An incall in the Domain area for example will be more expensive than along I-35, and so forth.
In my opinion and based on observations of the local rates, $250/hr appears to be the key price point in the Domain area. Above that point, hobbyists look to see a lot more in a session.
One last point that many hobbyists do not often consider is that an hourly rate gathers in a set amount of dollars, but that amount should be reduced by the amount of expenses incurred by the provider and then divided by the number of hours actually used to prep for a session and well as the time actually in session. This calculation bring you to the actual hourly amount earned by the provider.
My next task is to figure out a pricing model where the ladies pay the hobbyists for their time and sessions. For some reason, I just haven't found a pricing model that works.
ThreAD: With that in mind, BugleBoy will continue to bring a hard stick, some humor, and surfing experiences to each session. While these attributes don't seem to reduce the hourly rates, they do seem to help with the scheduling in that many providers are happy to see me return.
BugleBoy Surfs up, along with other things...
P.S. I would like to tell you more about the Little Surfer Dude and my surfing with eccie Ladies, but that is a subject that is best addressed face-to-face, followed by a demonstration that hopefully will ring more than just a bell or two for the lady.
P.P.S. Repeat demos are always available for the ladies, free of charge.
Economics lesson: it's the dismal science, not rocket science. I know most of y'all hold your own in the real world on a professional level...so what the hell's up with all the fuzzy math?
Boys: If the rates are too high, then just don't see that girl. If you don't think she's worth it, don't pay it. Wait for a special or find a substitute. If you can't find a substitute...well, that's why her price is high.
Ladies: If you aren't getting any calls, lower your rates or run a special. If you're getting too many appointment requests to comfortably field, raise your rates. You don't have to be a Barbie to make above-market rates and being a Barbie doesn't mean you can be successful at below-market rates.
******
I have zero desire to wade far into this lovely thread but the rate/hr = profit/hr is incorrect -- I'll explain why. Onei mentioned incall costs, so that of course is one. But for every one hour appointment, a lot more happens behind the scenes. Y'all want a pretty face and clean sheets, right?
So...speaking for myself, I take about 90 minutes to get ready for an appointment of any length and about 30 minutes to clean-up both myself and the incall (an hour if you cum in my hair!) Throw in the time and pain in the ass factor associated with screening and setting up a date with the vast majority of boys and I'm looking at another 45 minutes of email/calling/etc per session. You might think that's high, but I counted all of the time spent with screening/prepping/etc for NCNS, last minute cancellations, screened but never booked, etc. Manicures, laundry, shopping for more toiletries and candles, emails to regulars to keep up flirtation, board stuff/marketing stuff is about five hours a week. So if every one hour of "work" translates into 4.5 hours of general labor, that puts a going rate a lot lower. For my rate, that puts me at $57/hr (not including incall costs).
Sure, I still wind up with a rate many people would be thrilled to pull, but my earning potential as a provider is far more limited than a goddamn engineer. I've known a variety of providers over the years and it's rare to find a provider that's pulling multiple sessions a day most days a week. The exceptions I've noticed are for new providers (which fades) and agency girls (less take-away earning, higher burn-out rate). THEN there's the fact that many providers are mothers, students, or possibly working another gig, so their availability is even further limited, further limiting their earning potential. Oh...then there's the whole hobbyists are a set group in any city and the hobbyists that want to bone a specific provider are even further limited...it's hardly an endless demand, even for the hottest girls. Oh. And menses. And "hooker-flu" a.k.a. a cold/strep/bug every six weeks. Making out with strangers is like being a kindergarten teacher. Wait...
If providers were legitimately pulling the numbers that y'all are throwing around in here, you'd see much nicer incalls, far fancier lingerie, red soles on black pumps, many more girls entering the market, and many familiar faces retiring early and asking for bartering opportunities with money managers and venture capitalists instead of mechanics and handymen.
Good Stuff!
One of the mistakes the girls make in this thread is assuming that some of us don't KNOW how a normal day goes for some. I'll never name names, but I have been very , very close to a few working girls. One an agency girl who's rate was 280 an hour...she netted 200. No overhead other than personal hygiene. Generally would see 2 on a normal day-one early, one at lunch. Someday's up to 4 with one after dinner. She worked usually M-T taking Fri/Sat/Sun off although sometimes doing one early Fri. So she NETTED 1600 per week minimal on the weeks she worked. (Taking off Aunt Flow days...usually 3...she still managed to work 2 days those weeks).
My ATF made 250 a pop & worked part time. She saw from 4-6 visits a week (sometimes me twice a week-but generally stayed multi hours for the hour rate). So even as a part time hoogar she brought in +1K a week.
Another, with a much lower 120 half/240 hour actually sees MORE in a week than the above example and has up to 6 visits during a day...as few as 1 but never less than that...will rarely take a full day off at least seeing one, goes to BJ's only during flowition time.
There are a few others who have shared with me their cadence as well. Most a little lighter but ALL averaging about 2 visits per day if they want to work...
Based on this its NOT fuzzy math....a working girl...in ATX...with any sort of skills or following...is pulling down 65K-150K a year. If you are not they are either lying or don't wanna work very much at all. Or need a business manager.
I think many who argue the numbers simply want to pull off one HDH call a day or so & really don't want to "work". So they charge outrageous rates & bitch about all the overhead...
I've seen several times...several girls...look at the calendar with 5 days left until rent is due and easily make the 1200-1500...never evicted...
You say if girls were making what I (and others) know you can make, they would have nicer in calls/nicer cars...what you don't say is what they ARE blowing their money on. Partying, weekly mani/pedis, boyfriends, friends...lots of hangers on to girls with a buck...and face it, many girls in this business don't carry finance or business degrees...its just the way it is.
Yes, you have to shower, shave your legs, flush your waa-waa, rinse your mouth...do laundry....There are chores to any job, they come with the territory. (heres a unique idea-buy 10 sets of sheets...trade them out on occasion...do a load of laundry every other day). .
Oh and Jenn, I'm not reaming you. I appreciate a womans perspective especially well thought out, respectful, and chock full of goodies I can debate!
I think this thread has been enlightening for many. It has been fun so far, with back and forth between the genders. With support for both sides issues FROM both sides. I realize this is not an easy job...moreso than many on here ever will know...but I ALSO know with the right mental attitude, work ethic, support people, it can and IS a nicely compensated career. Like Velvet Jones says "Where else can you make a living from the comfort of your very own bed"?
A few additional notes...because I have an issue with shutting up.
1) YES! Doctors, lawyers, bartenders, and mechanics also earn less per hour than they charge per hour. Commutes, uniform costs (whether suits or lab coats), education costs (whether hours spent sucking off civvie men or a more formal education), lease on the office, other stuff. Blah blah blah. Point is, providing is a job. It's not simply rolling out of bed, writing an ad, and stumbling on a penis with a smile. It's a lot of work...and I'm not even talking about the sex stuff. Truth is, the most taxing thing about providing is constantly being on-call. Even when you're fully in RW-mode, you're fielding emails and the such and forced to put on the happy, sexy face. It's tiring.
2) I'll do one-two loads of laundry a week when I can learn to not soak through a coverlet and sheets and you boys can learn not to use up 3 towels and 3 washcloths in one visit. Pro-tip! Hide yer towels, ladies.
3) I can't speak about other ladies and their ability to manage their money, but I can speak to mine. I somewhat regret that when I did do this full time that I was somewhat careless with my money. I was quick to visit friends in far away cities and treat them to nice nights out when I couldn't have afforded that on a post-grad wage. And the more I felt burnt out from the giving and giving and giving that providing required, I'd splurge and give to myself in the form of stupid tokens. And I regret being somewhat shitty TCB-wise and cancelling appointments when I woke up and just wasn't in the mood. (Which lead to a smaller weekly appointment average than I was able to book, thus affecting my bottom-line.) That being said, I'm older now and have a better view of the provider thing, the male thing, the real world thing and hell, even the money thing, so when I move back to TX and provide for a bit, I hope I'll be able to benefit a bit more than perfume at Neimans or whatever.
3a) BUT! Speaking to my own previous money mismanagement or whatever to no way speaks to other providers and their money. Lots are mothers. Where I paid for a mediocre apartment to live in and a mediocre apartment to work out of, many of my colleagues pay for a decent house for their families as well as an incall. Lots of providers have rather high living costs.
3b) Hell, most of you boys who started pulling a pretty penny sucked at managing your own money in your early days just as I did. Hookers, trips to Vegas, nice booze, baseball trips. You live and you learn, right? =)
4) Providing can be a very rewarding line of work. It's nice to give men what they can't find elsewhere. It's nice to not have to clock-in at a formal 8-5 and be tied to a lame gig. But...it's also ridiculously risky. Rape, legal issues, hell...even murder in some cases. If it weren't a hard job, we wouldn't charge so much and more women would chose to do it.
3b) Hell, most of you boys who started pulling a pretty penny sucked at managing your own money in your early days just as I did. Hookers, trips to Vegas, nice booze, baseball trips. You live and you learn, right? =)
"Ladies have noticed there is an eerily high correlation"
I am and have always been very involved in numbers. Do you have valid statistics to back this up? Has there been any surveys, tangible data, compairitives to support this claim? If not, this honestly sounds like a very biased spin to support your position.
you know that is a good Idea and I personally wouldn't mind doing a sort of social survey on that subject. I just wouldn't share the results with someone who felt the need to not only call me a liar for no reason but was arrogant and condescending enough to accuse me of saying shit to "support" a position that's NOT even MINE.
What you fail to realize is that MOST girls-who do give a special rate-ask us SPECIFICALLY not to state the rate given. And honestly, you are 120/200 posted...you would not be considered on the high end at all.
Yes so that a big fucking NEON sign right there that I am not expressing these view points for myself. and considering you took the time to look that up you probably did so cause you thought I wasn't in that range and was just needlessly venting or "bitching" because I don't understand. well you were wrong. Obviously
and Hello I know that little trick too, you who SPECIFICALLY acts like a representative of a donkeys ASS so NO I DON"T in fact "fail" to realize that.
High volume is a misnomer and I discussed this in a previous rebuttal. Time in the saddle negates any "high volume". And honestly? Most of us have fucked each other by proxy after a short time in the hobby anyway... Say you see 3 guys a day...and they have seen 5 girls a month...do the multipier and we all cross dicks theoretically anyway...
you really didn't bother to try and in any way absorb what I said did you? either that or your brain translates sense into non-sense.
what I said has Nothing in anyways to do with a worry of "crossing dicks" or even the other argument of lower the risk of "getting" something. do you even take the time to understand what someone is saying before you reply...
This might be true for the full time provider. But how many girls only use this as a part time gig, or jump in-meet their goal-and leave? What it says to me is the full time, or long term, provider will battle with all her heart and soul to keep the rates high so she doesn't have to work as hard....that's understandable. But its also understandable that we (the tricks) might not feel its our responsibility to pay more than is necessary... Just sayin'.
you know what this says too me....you don't give a shit. I almost wanna ask what your idea of "necessary" is but there is no need. especially since it's pretty clear you have no respect for me to take the points I mentioned seriously.
and if your so big on facts and numbers did you even take the time to try and get an idea of how many ladies are full time providers but oh wait that doesn't just apply to FT ladies it applies to any lady who providing is her sole source of income.
i'm not sure why you equate higher prices to mean doesn't have to work as hard. that's clearly a biased opinion if I've ever heard one
AS I prefer OC's this doesn't apply to me that often. And you keep alluding to the fact that taking a few $ off rate is taking a girl from the Hilton to Motel 6...I find that laughable. Your "scenarios" tend to be written to only support your views
you keep alluding that adding a few dollars is "unnecessary" when you don't even what what IS necessary.
you keep saying these are my views but they are not.
I don't find this laughable.
I'm being serious and sincere about how other ladies feel and your being obnoxious disrespectful and laughing
Honestly? Your prices are in the range of "High Volume"...I don't see your current asking rates as being outrageous. i assume you mean to say Not in the HV range... otherwise your sentence doesn't make sense and is contradictory
you keep pointing that out as if the validity of what I say hinges on MY rates... OH wait yea your working from the inaccurate mindset that I am speaking for myself as if it NEVER fucking accured to you that I am not.
No one can predict the future...a year ago 100-120 HHR was the norm, now its edging towards 150-160+...sorry, that's not inflation, that's price gouging....
a year ago gas was cheaper too, a year ago some apartments were cheaper too a year ago my medical insurance was cheaper too...these aren't frivolous minimal brush aside doesn't have that much of an impact things
if you don't realize inflation is rising then you are apparently SO financial stable that you don't even notice. or you are the one spinning things to support Your view point
Absolutely...as expressed above...heres what you are missing. We are not SAYING you have to lower your rates....we are saying we will see those with acceptable rates & fully realize not every girl, or even the majority, will join in. And as I have heard ad nauseum how very "busy" every HDH is I don't know what the fuss is because a few guys say 'NO MORE MEATLOAF FOR ME MA"!! And refuse to pay... Now, what I DO find exceedingly funny is when I see a supposed "I get all the business I need at my HDH rate" scrounging through ISO and replying to several cattle calls...makes me wonder if they would just knock a bit off their rates if they would have sufficient fundage to keep from trolling the want ads...
My ATF started on BP...she is now in the financial industry & lives on the West Coast...just sayin'. Now since YOUR rates are within 95% of the CBC request, what are you bitching about?
first off what you said in no way was a response to that question i posed.
second I'm not bitching
third you would fucking know that if you took TWO fucking seconds to get out of your ass and pay attention to what I actually said from a non judgmental non biased view point. but apparently you are fucking incapable of doing that.
and you have the nerve to accuse ME of being biased???
Confused...WTF did you say? I am in and out of the hobby....but basically see the same girls (who still play) that I was seeing 4 years ago...so I guess the answer to your question is a resounding YES in my case...
if you were confused by what I said then don't bother giving an answer since clearly you don't know what that question is. though frankly you've been doing that the entire time. writing response to shit you get even take the time to absorb let alone get.
Hows this for benefits? My ATF got gifts every visit...from nice bottles of wine to a pair of 1/2 carat diamond earrings...yeah, its true...a girl I am rather fond of I took out for two recent '"dates" out of the hobby...spent in excess of $300 on EACH date...cause I consider her a friend as well as a provider...have helped numerous times with real life issues...but then you get labeled as a romantic or worse. Now, those are NOT the kind of thing one comes on and says "hey if we happen to become friends through our sessions, I'll be a REAL friend to you and not just a client"...but am guessing that's what you mean?
No. I have no fucking idea how you even got to that story or analogy from what I said. those two point aren't even in the same quadrant let alone the same grid. that has nothing to do with "what I mean"
Its really not a negotiation, and you really don't represent anyone other than yourself...get real. We as the consumer are saying prices are moving too high & we will only pay so much...its a decision each girl will need to make for themselves. Maybe they make it public, maybe they PM CBC members (as several have to me), with fair offers...they just don't want it publicized. There is no true HC or PM...its fantasy....
oh I'm sorry I mistakenly thought all this bitching and moaning you CBC guys were doing was an effort to achieve some sort of real goal or affect a change I didn't real that all the bitching and moaning was just that. My bad. I was trying to help and open up a honest dialog and actually give a shit about what's important and reasonable to both parties. I believe if you want change communication and giving a shit are key but thanks Toyz as the rep for CBC for clearing me of that apparent delusion that all the cbc whining meant something. y'all keep repeating you won't pay more, you don't have to, prices are outrageous we can walk away. this isn't a negotiation give us what we want. then fucking walk away. you say you'll walk away but only bitch and moan about "rising prices" but have no respect or desire to work something out that both parties feel comfortable with.
first of Y'all by that I mean you GUYS took what was a joke and made it a thing. Pussy mafia
Hooker church is not a fantasy, it's not a joke, and unlike you I was sincere. and YOU are a representative of a donkeys ass if you can take the time to see that. but if you wanna see everything as "fantasy" then be my guest. the mentally ill tend to do the same.
you really don't represent anyone other than yourself...get real
Yes I do and I was being real and sincere AND respectful but you wanted to come in and try and put down everything I was saying most if not ALL of your responses didn't even coincide with what i was saying.
you know at HC claire spoke about you said you were really smart and sarcastic I got the impression she respects you and I respect her and I mistakenly thought what you were a level headed intelligent fair individual with a tendency to play devil advocate. thank you I suppose for breaking me of that line of thinking before actually letting that settle in my mind as truth.
throughout this entire response you've had a shitty attitude towards me, for no damn response when I made my response it was in a sincere respectful way with completely valid points which you ignored and you came in with your arrogant condescending attitude accusing me of being dishonest, biased, full of myself and apparently delusional about the realness of something that I started.
since you and claire have a report with each other why don't you ask her since apparently I'm just a dishonest delusional biased liar. unless you don't respect claire enough as person (as clearly you have none for me) to tell you the truth.
you know, for Years I have put up with other people's shitty attitudes/behaviors towards me and you know what I eventually realized... I don't Have to put up with other people's shit attitudes towards me. so you know what? I won't bother making the mistake of coming to with valid points of discussion in any attempt to open a respectful line of communication for the benefit of both parties ever again. as you've made it clear you don't give a shit. and you know what pisses me off even more you were all respectful, nice and even playful in your responses the Mia christie and Jenns but to me you just acted like a representative of a donkeys ass.
I won't talk to you anymore henceforth all I ever have to say to you is
My responses are in pretty purple above.
no shit sherlock. I never would have figured THAT out even though I actually take the time to try and figure out what people are saying and NOT be arrogant, condescending and accuse them of being delusional liars.
no shit sherlock. I never would have figured THAT out even though I actually take the time to try and figure out what people are saying and NOT be arrogant, condescending and accuse them of being delusional liars.
Look...I gave you the respect of responding in a similar manner that you responded to me. I mistakenly took you for someone who could hold there own in a debate with two polar opposite sides. I was actually enjoying the back and forth with someone who could keep up and was confident in their responses.
I re-read my responses to see what set you off so badly & don't get why I deserve all the "fucking this & fucking that". If you are going to raise the flag that you represent all Hoogars, then do it with a modicum of self control cause loosing it only makes you look like a sore loser.
I MEANT no outright disrespect...I DID see many of your responses as self serving...what separates us is that I realize mine is ONLY an opinion, but don't feel I should have to disclaimer every post I make with that.
Rossi & I had some similar heated discussions...but I respect her opinion, her wit, and her being quick on the response...but she got pissed at me too and we got over it. Hopefully you and I will as well cause I like reading your intelligent banter.
And yes, I respect Claire (and know she is reading this over your shoulder), she gets that a lot of the time I am just pushing buttons for fun and mean no ill will. This is just a verbal chat board, and sometimes its fun to poke each other....(literally and figuratively as well).
My ranges and they are not concrete.
hh $100-$160
hr (rare) $150- $250
1.5hr (Super Rare) $250-$350
2hr (Whats that) $300-$400
I tend to hobby from specials, wants, needs, and my wish list.
My 2cents
Very fare rates IMHO and around the same range I look for. For me if a lady had a 180-200 hr "special" that would make more inclined to schedule even if I didn't have the funds budgeted at the time.
I was told you responded that you treated me in the same manner I treated you.
that is a lie. there is nothing I said that was as shitty as you treated me.
I suppose you got all defensive and wrote a long winded sarky remark that probably denied that you were giving me shit and turned the tables around on me meant to knock me back or suggest i deserved it. and probably in typical bully fashion suggested that because I didn't swallow your shitty attitude towards me I must be weak, butthurt, overly sensitive or some other turn of phrase and you did nothing wrong. even though you insulted me, accused me on being dishonest, a liar, and delusional. yet my initial post to you had none of that.
you know even though Whispers is a horrid tyrant bully who likes to terrorize the ladies on the board a quite a few people try and tell me in person he's really nice, respectful, completely different yada yada. I suspect even, long before he fully started acting and treating the women the way he does now he started out more selective picking and choosing who he would give shit to...just like you are now doing.
I was told you responded that you treated me in the same manner I treated you.
that is a lie. there is nothing I said that was as shitty as you treated me.
I suppose you got all defensive and wrote a long winded sarky remark that probably denied that you were giving me shit and turned the tables around on me meant to knock me back or suggest i deserved it. and probably in typical bully fashion suggested that because I didn't swallow your shitty attitude towards me I must be weak, butthurt, overly sensitive or some other turn of phrase and you did nothing wrong. even though you insulted me, accused me on being dishonest, a liar, and delusional. yet my initial post to you had none of that.
you know even though Whispers is a horrid tyrant bully who likes to terrorize the ladies on the board a quite a few people try and tell me in person he's really nice, respectful, completely different yada yada. I suspect even, long before he fully started acting and treating the women the way he does now he started out more selective picking and choosing who he would give shit to...just like you are now doing.
Do you realize how often you say "I'll bet you do this" and then fill in some make believe future or history?
Basically you make up shit to fit what you want to believe. Take a moment & see if this isn't true. In this case you suggest YOU HAVENT EVEN READ my response, but you respond as if you do? THAT is the clinical description of delusional. If the shoe fits, as they say...
We should stop communicating as it upsets you so much.
Love Mia!!
He didn't mention me either! I guess I always think "FS" when I read these threads. I think FBSM is the best!! The guys don't have to do a thing.
But some of us love to "do a thing" but that is in danger of coming across wrong unless you pay serious attention to context. In any case some of us prefer to be actively involved in all parties pleasure. Give me NURU any day.
Do you realize how often you say "I'll bet you do this" and then fill in some make believe future or history?
Basically you make up shit to fit what you want to believe. Take a moment & see if this isn't true.
That is the danger of communication that isn't as "human" and face to face. It is easy to not come across in e-mail or forums as you are in real life and easy to interpret someone as completely different as they are face to face. I've been guilty of both and victim as well.
I'm not sure why it was so different when people wrote letters, except that one rarely wrote long letters to someone they didn't know well face to face. Also letters usually took a long time to write and life was far slower paced.
I comment on this because though it may seem off topic, it applies to all eccie communication, anonymous communications elsewhere and I've experienced it both here and in RL electronic communication so since I do tech for a living it probably never hurts to remind everyone about this reality of the little virtual world we inhabit.
In fact Mia Christine and I got cross-ways a while back and she is a universally acknowledged sweetie and I think, except for the rigities (and even some of them) in the Political Forum, most would grant me as a respectful and thoughtful poster. Just goes to show you.
I didn't say "I bet you do this" and make anything up... so while side stepping things that were actually said so you realize you don't make any sense.....
I've only ever pointed out things you actually did say and do.
Surfs up, along with other things...
My Bio Page - Texas - Austin
