Presidential debate

[Carl]

Here's how much people REALLY rely on the debates to form an opinion.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=9UrOmhH2PeI

[Guest091918]

It really strikes me how the American people seem to think that the President is a dictator and can wave a magic wand to fix the economy. Or that the President just write checks from the federal coffers. I hear a lot of talk about the 10th Amendment from the Red Team, but very little recognition that spending bills must constitutionally originate in the House and must be passed by both houses of Congress. ... But if we are going to play that game - the fact (and please, go watch your FoxNews if you don't want facts to get in the way of demagouery) is that in July/August 2011, Obama had $3.1 trillion in deficit reduction on the table - with 80% spending cuts and 20% tax increases (mostly to bring back rates on the wealthy to 1990s levels - you know, when the economy was SO bad). But NO, that wasn't good enough for all the intransigent Tea Party Repulicans who signed pledges with Grover Norquist ... The fact is that federal tax rates across the board are currently lower than they have been in 18 years - indiviidual income tax, corporate income tax estate tax (go ahead - look it up for yourself), but all you hear from Republicans is BS about overburdened businesses, "class warfare", "big government", "socialism" ... The fact is that almost $400 billion of the $800 billion in that awful 2009 "stimulus package" - the ONLY major new spending initiative that has gone into effect during Obama's administration - was TAX CUTS ... The fact is that while Carter and Clinton administrations reduced deficits as a percentage of GDP for 8 years of their tenure, in every single year of the Reagan, Bush I, and Bush II administrations, deficits INCREASED from the prior year. Every single year. You have to go back to Nixon to find decreases in deficits under a Republican administration. And why not? You can't increase defense spending (which DOUBLED from 2001 to 2008 to be over five times what the Chinese government spends) AND cut taxes across the board and not run deficits. (Any economist will tell you that the deficits during Obama's administration are due primarily to decreased tax revenue from the recession and lowered rates - NOT from big spending initiatives.). Do you Republicans really think that more tax cuts/more increases in defense spending are the solution? Well the unemployment rate when Bush took office was 4.2% and was 7.8% when he left. And the stock market had dropped to just over 7,000 when Bush left office and Obama came in, and now it's pushing 14,000. And Romney's fiscal policies are lock step with Bush. And dogs and cats are going to start living together if we have 4 more years of Obama! ... So if you're going to give all the blame/credit to the Presidency, then stick with the facts - not trickle down theories that have no empirical support. ... And news flash to Republicans: The individual mandate, for which you have such righteous indignation (never mind that the government makes you buy other kinds of insurance), was originally a Republican idea - Newt Gingrich, Mitt Romney, etc.! Only when it became a central feature of "Obamacare" did Republicans start complaining ... It seems to me that American businesses need to stop whining about what government should do for them; rather, we should be asking what American businesses are going to do for US. And it is readily apparent that the problem with this nation is the intransigent and obstructionist nature of the Republican Party, not Obama who has shown willingness to compromise.

[LordBeaverbrook]

But love_machine you forget that Red Team tax cuts produce more revenue while Blue Team tax cuts just don't. Red Team stimulus revives the economy while Blue Team stimulus just increases the deficit. Red Team defense spending creates jobs, but Blue Team spending doesn't create jobs and increases the deficit. Red Team health care ideas are constitutional and efficient but Blue Team healthcare ideas (even when they are identical to the Republican ideas) is an unconstitutional dictatorial take-over of the healthcare system (even when most healthcare AND insurance is still delivered by the private sector) and doesn't slow or stop increases in healthcare spending. Red Team can cut taxes increase spending and have the deficit and national debt come down, but when the Blue Team raises taxes, decreases spending, increases the GDP and Stock Markets it only adds to the deficits and debt. Get it straight man!

The government "is the problem, the whole problem and nothing but the problem" and can't do anything right (except when run by the Red Team) and the private sector can't do anything wrong (except when the Blue Team or unions are involved) so just stop, take a breath and get your facts straight! Then we can have a civilized discussion, but until them I'm just going to have to engage in name calling, insults, ad-hominem attacks and distortions until you get your facts straight, because that is the Godly American thing to do!

[Yssup Rider]

Red Team tax cuts have failed over and over again, austxjr. That's why we can't continue to drink that Kool Aid. It didn't work for 12 years of Bushes. It isn't working now. Won't work in the future.

Additionally, a caste system can't be the basis of our American society in the 21st Century. Putting Baby in the corner (or a binder) is soooo 1950s. Cutting education and healthcare while increasing defense (even when the military doesn't ask) is not a way to fix an economy or right a drifting ship.

Romney's dad, were he alive today, would never vote for his son.

Nor will I.

[Yssup Rider]

Originally Posted by Chicago K9

Here's my take, without tipping who I support:
Romney won the debate hands down. He was forceful, engaging, displayed a good command of the various topics for the most part, and generally showed a side of him that few have seen and many had longed for so they can vote for him.
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Obama looked at times disinterested, bored, and more like an onlooker than a participant. His performance did improve during the second half of the debate, but by that time most watchers had formed their opinions.
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So, the upshot is this: Romney supporters who expect, and Obama supporters who are fearful of, a repeat performance in the second debate will be sadly disappointed. Barack Obama is no fool, and he'll work his ass off to improve his performance. Mitt Romney gave such a good performance that all he can really do is hold serve. I look for there to be no consensus winner of the second debate, which will be a de facto win for Obama, since it will stop the bleeding in the tossup states.

Wrong debate, bubba.

[endurance]

red vs blue, what a joke

love_machine, you act as if they are actually continuing to observe the constitution. only the convenient parts need apply.

civil liberties and semblance of justice (laws are for the little people) need to be restored. much of the financial bickering is accounting games and circular misdirection/finger pointing - with both sides feeling free to loot the treasury of our children and grandchildren.

while the majority stands by complacent and apathetic as long as they have a job - no personal recession.

[Yssup Rider]

Debate three was an ass whooping for the President. Romney was about as "me too" and as disconnected as Obama was in debate 1.

We'll see if the rope-a-dope strategy helps him any. Right now, he isn't looking like a Commander in Chief.

[ozmosys]

Maybe if you drink the Kool-Aid, or if you live in Texas. There are indications that the president won, despite Ann Coulter saying that Mitt went easy on the "retard". We'll know in November, and Ohio is still seeing employment rise. Just saying. Obama is still favored in the prediction markets.

[Codybeast]

Leadership on BOTH sides of the Republican/Democrat fence have proven time and again that neither side gives a shit about the welfare of the country or it's people.
Both are interested ONLY in personal gain and agenda yet Americans show what true stupidity really is as they continuously fall into step on the battlefield behind their chosen God among insects.
I say give Libertarianism a shot. Nothing else has worked thus far.
Both candidates have every intention on fucking us over and it makes me shake my head watching sheep take sides in this illusion of choice for a better America.

[ozmosys]

If God wanted Republicans to win, he would have given them candidates.