BREAKING NEWS OBAMACARE UPHELD!!!!!!!

[essence]

Originally Posted by wellendowed1911

ok looks like Oliva couldn't/wouldn't answer my question so I will ask another Republican on this forum: What was the GOP's plan to fix healthcare?? Both parties admitted the system was broken I just want to know what the GOP plan was to fix this problem?

Don't hold your breath, that question has been asked many times over the last year with no response (apart from some minor tinkering).

The point about pre existing conditions is well made. My gf has pre existing issues, so I will have to pay for the correction. After I have paid UK tax.

[CuteOldGuy]

Well, if this doesn't prove Essence is full of shit, nothing will. Europe not socialist? Bullshit! Even the European governments don't deny they are socialist. They are proud of being socialist. They WANT to be socialist.

Europe not socialist? Puh-leez!

[CuteOldGuy]

I can tell you what the GOP plan for healthcare was. NOTHING! They are a bunch of idiots. They could have come up with and publicized a market oriented plan which would have been much better than Obamacare, but they didn't.

We can't trust Republicans to get us out of this mess. It won't happen.

[Sexyeccentric1]

Well I overslept, just got up and see the news! Whoopi! Where are the firecrackers and the horns and the celebration!!

I thought it was most interesting to read this in the news, see my bold highlights in particular:

In a 5-4 ruling, the U.S. Supreme Court upheld the constitutionality of the Affordable Care Act. But as the political, legal, and policy world scrutinizes the details of today's ruling, it's worth pausing to appreciate just how far the four dissenters -- who filed their dissent jointly -- were willing to go.

The conventional wisdom, which was neither conventional nor wise, was that the individual mandate was in deep trouble, but it was unrealistic to think the justices would be so radical as to kill every letter of every word of every page of the law. Such a breathtaking move would simply be unnecessarily radical.

And yet, as of this morning, four justices -- Alito, Kennedy, Scalia, and Thomas -- insisted on doing exactly that. The four dissenters demanded that the Supreme Court effectively throw out the entirety of the law -- the mandate, the consumer protections, the tax cuts, the subsidies, the benefits, everything.

To reach this conclusion, these four not only had to reject a century of Commerce Clause jurisprudence, they also had ignore the Necessary and Proper clause, and Congress' taxation power. I can't read Chief Justice John Roberts' mind, but it wouldn't surprise me if the extremism of the four dissenters effectively forced him to break ranks -- had Kennedy been willing to strike down the mandate while leaving the rest of the law intact, this may well have been a 5-4 ruling the other way.

Roberts' motivations notwithstanding, it's important that Americans understand that there are now four justices on the Supreme Court who effectively want to overturn the 20th century. Based on the flimsiest of arguments, the four dissenters want to kill progressive legislation basically because their political ideologies tell them to do so.
There are some who argue that this year's presidential election isn't especially important. I hope those who believe this consider what today's court minority was prepared to do, and what they will do with just one more vote.

[Jackie S]

One other thing I would like to know.

In Harris County, we have what they call a Hospitol District, which in laymans terms means you can go and get treated for free. That has always meant that there is no such thing as people without health care. The big one on the East SIde of Houston is LBJ. If you go there, it helps if you can speak Spanish.

We pay for these Hospitols through the county taxing authority.

Since now everybody is mandated to have health insurance, should not these hospitol districts be disbanded, and turned into private institutions, and the tax done away with?

[essence]

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

Well, if this doesn't prove Essence is full of shit, nothing will. Europe not socialist? Bullshit! Even the European governments don't deny they are socialist. They are proud of being socialist. They WANT to be socialist.

Europe not socialist? Puh-leez!

Calm down dear.

Which European countries call themselves socialist? Or are you talking to a mirror again?

I think France recently elected a more left of centre candidate. UK is obviously right of centre. Greece did not elect a socialist government recently, but it was tight. Merkel socialist? She is chairwoman of the CDU.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christi...nion_(Germany)

I can't be bothered to go on.

[CuteOldGuy]

WASHINGTON, DC – Congressman Ron Paul issued the following statement on the Supreme Court's decision to uphold most of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act.

"I strongly disagree with today’s decision by the Supreme Court, but I am not surprised. The Court has a dismal record when it comes to protecting liberty against unconstitutional excesses by Congress.

'Today we should remember that virtually everything government does is a 'mandate.' The issue is not whether Congress can compel commerce by forcing you to buy insurance, or simply compel you to pay a tax if you don’t. The issue is that this compulsion implies the use of government force against those who refuse. The fundamental hallmark of a free society should be the rejection of force. In a free society, therefore, individuals could opt out of “Obamacare” without paying a government tribute. "Those of us in Congress who believe in individual liberty must work tirelessly to repeal this national health care law and reduce federal involvement in healthcare generally. Obamacare can only increase third party interference in the doctor-patient relationship, increase costs, and reduce the quality of care.


Only free market medicine can restore the critical independence of doctors, reduce costs through real competition and price sensitivity, and eliminate enormous paperwork burdens. Americans will opt out of Obamacare with or without Congress, but we can seize the opportunity today by crafting the legal framework to allow them to do so."

[essence]

+1

[Guest050715-1]

wellendwoed1911, Where did I say win/win or lose/lose? I said it will now mobilize the right – as in the hard right.

Originally Posted by OliviaHoward

……………….. Typical hard left or right-winger. No one’s decisions are good unless they agree with the righteous left or right-winger.

We need more hard left-wingers and more hard right-wingers going ape shit activists like we need more holes in our heads and more taxes – taxes on the poor and working classes. It is a law that has divided an already deeply divided country. And, and, the way it’s written is that any attempt to head to a morally right single payer system is DOA because of the Medicare otp out allowance by the states.

There is nothing more disconcerting and damaging than the effects of the two extremes (which you seem to be a member of) tearing the country apart. Did it ever occur to you Yellow Dogs and Rabid Republicans that the rest of us just want to be left alone and left out of your constant posturing and moral dictating?!? The extremes are tearing the country apart. Hopefully what gets mobilized is the gigantic and height of the bell curve middle of the road. I don’t think the country can take much more moral pontification and grandstanding.

Originally Posted by wellendowed1911

Oliva answer me this one question and then I will leave: What was the GOP's plan to fix healthcare???????

If you’d read anything that I’ve written you’d see that:
A, I’m for universal health care just not a tax on the poor and working classes; and
B, I’M NOT A FUCKING REPUBLICAN. I could care less who nominated Roberts. I hate Bush II just as much as I hate Obama. They’re both incompetent snobs just in different ways. Roberts is clearly a thinking man. He can see a tax when he sees one. Obama, with this truthy, snake-oil salesman bullshit couldn’t tell the full truth about one fucking thing even if it is BLATENLY OBVIOUS TO EVERYONE IN THE ROOM. No, that’s not an elephant in the corner. It’s a gigantic pig with a straight tail, big floppy ears and a trunk.

But to answer your question, the Republicans are just as wrong to leave the poor and working classes to the winds of war and charity for their health care. The right thing was a single payer with a sliding scale that didn’t burden the poor and working class and that didn’t pander to the pharma, medical and insurance industries. This bill is a manifestation of the fascist industries running the country politics that's all. Talk about the tail wagging the dog.

Originally Posted by Laz

This is the type of policy everyone should be wanting. Those deductibles may be high for some but the key is that routine needs are paid for out of pocket with no insurance involvement. That would lead to consumer shopping and provider competition. That would lower costs on top of the reduction in administrative costs of not dealing with insurance companies.

Ya think!?! But the dealio with Obamacare isn’t logic and cost cutting. It’s pandering to the puppet masters in the aforementioned industries. It doesn’t line anyone’s pocket to have a sensible and cost effective health care provisions.

I also have a concierge doctor. $125 / month paid quarterly and I have continual 24/7 access to my doctor including routine physicals and inoculations. I’m sure that makes too much sense too.

Originally Posted by wellendowed1911

ok looks like Oliva couldn't/wouldn't answer my question so I will ask another Republican on this forum: What was the GOP's plan to fix healthcare?? Both parties admitted the system was broken I just want to know what the GOP plan was to fix this problem?

I wasn’t aware I was at your beck and call. See above and read any, literally ANY of my posts. You’ll get the idea in about two seconds that I detest both parties; I am an Independent; and I care more about the Republic than I care about being right or worse MORALLY right.

[wellendowed1911]

Originally Posted by essence

Don't hold your breath, that question has been asked many times over the last year with no response (apart from some minor tinkering).

The point about pre existing conditions is well made. My gf has pre existing issues, so I will have to pay for the correction. After I have paid UK tax.

Ok I am asking YOU the question and you can't give me answer because they have no plan never had a plan and never will- Romney's plan aka Romneycare is nearly identical to the President's even down to the individual mandate- in fact one of the chief architect of Romneycare helped designed Obamacare- that you can't dispute.
So Oliva here you are blasting Obamacare but your party and you have no solution or answer to healthcare.

[wellendowed1911]

Originally Posted by OliviaHoward

wellendwoed1911, Where did I say win/win or lose/lose? I said it will now mobilize the right – as in the hard right.



We need more hard left-wingers and more hard right-wingers going ape shit activists like we need more holes in our heads and more taxes – taxes on the poor and working classes. It is a law that has divided an already deeply divided country. And, and, the way it’s written is that any attempt to head to a morally right single payer system is DOA because of the Medicare otp out allowance by the states.

There is nothing more disconcerting and damaging than the effects of the two extremes (which you seem to be a member of) tearing the country apart. Did it ever occur to you Yellow Dogs and Rabid Republicans that the rest of us just want to be left alone and left out of your constant posturing and moral dictating?!? The extremes are tearing the country apart. Hopefully what gets mobilized is the gigantic and height of the bell curve middle of the road. I don’t think the country can take much more moral pontification and grandstanding.



If you’d read anything that I’ve written you’d see that:
A, I’m for universal health care just not a tax on the poor and working classes; and
B, I’M NOT A FUCKING REPUBLICAN. I could care less who nominated Roberts. I hate Bush II just as much as I hate Obama. They’re both incompetent snobs just in different ways. Roberts is clearly a thinking man. He can see a tax when he sees one. Obama, with this truthy, snake-oil salesman bullshit couldn’t tell the full truth about one fucking thing even if it is BLATENLY OBVIOUS TO EVERYONE IN THE ROOM. No, that’s not an elephant in the corner. It’s a gigantic pig with a straight tail, big floppy ears and a trunk.

But to answer your question, the Republicans are just as wrong to leave the poor and working classes to the winds of war and charity for their health care. The right thing was a single payer with a sliding scale that didn’t burden the poor and working class and that didn’t pander to the pharma, medical and insurance industries. This bill is a manifestation of the fascist industries running the country politics that's all. Talk about the tail wagging the dog.



Ya think!?! But the dealio with Obamacare isn’t logic and cost cutting. It’s pandering to the puppet masters in the aforementioned industries. It doesn’t line anyone’s pocket to have a sensible and cost effective health care provisions.

I also have a concierge doctor. $125 / month paid quarterly and I have continual 24/7 access to my doctor including routine physicals and inoculations. I’m sure that makes too much sense too.



I wasn’t aware I was at your beck and call. See above and read any, literally ANY of my posts. You’ll get the idea in about two seconds that I detest both parties; I am an Independent; and I care more about the Republic than I care about being right or worse MORALLY right.

Oliva again useless babble and trust me both Obama and Bush II have more competence than you will every have- stick to your day job please.

[CuteOldGuy]

I know you asked Olivia, but I'd like to respond. The GOP really dropped the ball, which is not unusual. Had they come up with an alternative, we might not be stuck with this disaster. The Republicans are just as culpable as the Democrats for this monstrosity.

Sorry for the interruption, I hate to be impolite. Carry on.

[CuteOldGuy]

Originally Posted by wellendowed1911

Oliva again useless bable and trust me both Obama and Bush II have more competence than you will every have- tick to your day job please.

Odd, someone judging another's competence would post a sentence(?) like that. Whatever it meant. What is a "bable"? How does one "tick" a day job? "[Y]ou will every have"? What the hell are you talking about?!?!?

And who is Oliva? If I remember right, Tony Oliva used to be an outfielder for the Minnesota Twins. Good player, but I didn't know he was a poster here.

[wellendowed1911]

Originally Posted by Jackie S

One other thing I would like to know.

In Harris County, we have what they call a Hospitol District, which in laymans terms means you can go and get treated for free. That has always meant that there is no such thing as people without health care. The big one on the East SIde of Houston is LBJ. If you go there, it helps if you can speak Spanish.

We pay for these Hospitols through the county taxing authority.

Since now everybody is mandated to have health insurance, should not these hospitol districts be disbanded, and turned into private institutions, and the tax done away with?

Nearly every city has some sort of "charity" hospital but when you say "free" trut me the money is coming from somewhere- so in essence it's truly not "free" taxpayers are picking up the bill and if you go back to the status quo- the tax payers will be picking up the funds.
People try to say that the government can't mandate this or that- so by their logic can I get rid of my auto insurance without and repercussions? There are a lot of state and city taxes that a person may not use can they forgo paying those taxes???

By the way anyone every wonder why don't see massive protest from politicians and citizens in Europe and Canada where they have universal health coverage??? You know why? It's because maybe it's working in those counties.
It's amazing how someone can justify U.S tax payers paying nearly 500 million to a billion dollars on the Iraq War which was based on a lie and has made us no safer yet we go ape shit when we want to spend money to make our own citizens healthier- WTF????

[wellendowed1911]

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

Odd, someone judging another's competence would post a sentence(?) like that. Whatever it meant. What is a "bable"? How does one "tick" a day job? "[Y]ou will every have"? What the hell are you talking about?!?!?

And who is Oliva? If I remember right, Tony Oliva used to be an outfielder for the Minnesota Twins. Good player, but I didn't know he was a poster here.

Oh sorry COG I forgot you were the grammar police and I forgot this was English 101 and I am getting graded on my post so I went back and did an edit on the spelling to make you happy- you are the one who told everyone in this room that Rick Perry would be the next POTUS so you have pretty much worn out your welcome as far as I am concerned.. For you to think Perry was going to win the GOP nomination and win the POTUS election really speaks volume of what you know about politics.