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Whirlaway · 12-10-2010, 05:14 PM

Let me respond 1st by complimenting Mazonmanic on his avatar - from the King Crimson fold=out album artwork I think.

Gates is schilling for the administration.. you think he actually will come out and say that there has been harm? No. he would have to resign. Has he said that there won't be in the futre? Nope !

For every quote you provide indicating no harm/no foul from the Afganistan Diariies dump I can provide on-the-ground confirmation quotes that there has or that it will likely occur in the future...afterall we are only talking weeks since the release.

TTH: you are splitting hairs; and before you quote legal precendent (NYT-Ellsburg case) let me state I dt give a rats ass about legal precedent...what he did in publishing the Afghanistan Diaries was an act of terroism against our country. Whoever gave him the code to the bomb; he is the one who activated the trigger.

oden · 12-10-2010, 07:21 PM

My bet is that another country will end the career of this guy. His best option would be to get in the U.S. court system and spill the beans. When you get picked up for screwing a hippie chick activist without a condom in another country, you have to thank your lucky stars that you didn't just vanish.

TexTushHog · 12-10-2010, 08:10 PM

Those like you, Whirlaway, who don't care about the law and the protections of the Constitution are far more dangerous than this guy. And a much more serious threat to our country and our way of life.

Mazomaniac · 12-10-2010, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whirlaway

Let me respond 1st by complimenting Mazonmanic on his avatar - from the King Crimson fold=out album artwork I think.

DING DING DING . . . . we have a winner.

Showing both of our ages, perhaps, but correctly identified.

What you doin' listenin' to Kommie-Phinko music like Crimson?

Cheers,
Mazo.

TexTushHog · 12-10-2010, 10:44 PM

I didn't know that it was a contest. Hell I knew where Mazo's avatar came from. It was Greg Lake's final album with King Crimson. Although he did do some work on Wake of Poseidon, he had already joined ELP at that time.

Mazomaniac · 12-10-2010, 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TexTushHog

I didn't know that it was a contest. Hell I knew where Mazo's avatar came from. It was Greg Lake's final album with King Crimson. Although he did do some work on Wake of Poseidon, he had already joined ELP at that time.

Well, I expected Tush to listen to Kommie-Phinko music so that's not a surprise.

Mazo spends his free time pretending to be Tony Levin laying down a line beside Fripp and Belew. Some of us just never let the teenage dream die.

Cheers,
Mazo.

Whirlaway · 12-11-2010, 08:54 AM

Not against the rule of law just bad decisions that have come out of the Supreme Court with the NYTs/Ellsburg case being one.

And I believe in following the constitution; not necessary some of the laws that have been upheld under the guise of being "constituional"...two different things.

And the "rule of law" is so flexible that it allows 2 presidents to wage 2 wars - now going on 10 years, without actually adhering to the constitution requiring Congress to declare war?

Is it the constituion you believe in TTH or just the rule of law? Two completely different standards.

Whirlaway · 12-11-2010, 08:55 AM

I use to be a commie-pinko before I became a constituional libertarian !

Sisyphus · 12-11-2010, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mazomaniac

Mazo spends his free time pretending to be Tony Levin laying down a line beside Fripp and Belew. Some of us just never let the teenage dream die.

Cheers,
Mazo.

Tony Levin!!!! There's a name I've not heard in a while. Check out the stuff he did with Todd Rundgren & Jessie Gress. That chit just SMOKED!!!!

Can I Play Too??? · 12-11-2010, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whirlaway

Not against the rule of law just bad decisions that have come out of the Supreme Court with the NYTs/Ellsburg case being one.

And I believe in following the constitution; not necessary some of the laws that have been upheld under the guise of being "constituional"...two different things.

And the "rule of law" is so flexible that it allows 2 presidents to wage 2 wars - now going on 10 years, without actually adhering to the constitution requiring Congress to declare war?

Is it the constituion you believe in TTH or just the rule of law? Two completely different standards.

Nobody has the balls to impeach a pres for real crimes anymore. But it's easier said than done.

Sisyphus · 12-11-2010, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whirlaway

I use to be a commie-pinko before I became a constituional libertarian !

A constitutional libertarian...is that even possible???

I'm just funnin' 'ya! I know what you mean...at least I think I do. But, it sure sounds like an oxymoron...or like one of those "made up" positions one reads about in reviews....

charlestudor2005 · 12-11-2010, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whirlaway

Not against the rule of law just bad decisions that have come out of the Supreme Court with the NYTs/Ellsburg case being one.

And I believe in following the constitution; not necessary some of the laws that have been upheld under the guise of being "constituional"...two different things.

And the "rule of law" is so flexible that it allows 2 presidents to wage 2 wars - now going on 10 years, without actually adhering to the constitution requiring Congress to declare war?

Is it the constituion you believe in TTH or just the rule of law? Two completely different standards.

Not against the rule of law??? You just pick and choose the laws and precedents you like, then discard all those you don't...along with anything that falls into line.

John Bull · 12-11-2010, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rudyard K

Occams Razor.

JB, do most of the mistakes that happen around you in your business world happen because there is some master plan?...or simply because most folks aren't paying attention?

No, my biz world consists of the market and the Board. On some level the market is rigged but still negotiable by a studious individual and God knows there is no master plan on the Board.

Guest083011 · 12-11-2010, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mazomaniac

Mazo spends his free time pretending to be Tony Levin laying down a line beside Fripp and Belew. Some of us just never let the teenage dream die. Cheers, Mazo.

Or to go further back in the time-machne: Giles, Giles and Fripp.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giles,_Giles_and_Fripp

Guest053011 · 12-11-2010, 10:55 AM

It may sound strange, but I think when it comes to the idea of privacy and information, the best people to understand are those who have lead corporations with huge amounts of people existing in a complex and fine balance.

I'm not saying the government shouldn't be watched, nor am I suggesting that they are always honest. I merely think releasing any piece of classified information you can possibly get your hands on, with no real purpose, does nothing to improve the world and is more an act of anarchy.

There as one Wikileak discussing Canada's resentment toward the US - which I have been accused of on this forum. So side rant: The truth is, I don't dislike Americans, they have a unique set of problems and every country can be criticized. Apparently some government official somewhere decided Canadians are afraid that the US will bomb Quebec and they will steal our water supplies. The water supplies thing has been a Canadian JOKE for a long time, and I've asked every Canadian I can get my hands on and no one recalls any fear of the US bombing Quebec. Hell even people in Quebec can't recall the news casts being referenced in this leak.

So what does releasing that do? It causes cultural tension, as Americans think we have paranoid fears about them. It causes Canadians to look at Americans and think they make things up and are xenophobic. Why? Because one moron official wrote a stupid document, that by nature of being submitted, had to be filed and stored - even if everyone in the US government who read it shook their heads at the writer's incompetence. What purpose does this serve?

Exposing specific documents in an active effort to right a wrong or to create change is one thing. Hand them to the people that can act on it, not for general amusement. Doing it as often as possible to increase traffic to your website and add to the power of your fame, is irresponsible and an abuse of power in it's own right.

Governments, political function and actions, need to be able to strategize, even when their actions and intents are good. To strategize, you need privacy. There is also a need for formal good manners between different leaders and governments, and those of different cultures. Internally, in the process of strategizing, you need to be frank and blunt in such a way that would be absolutely unacceptable at a negotiation table. I'm sure those who have participated in being on the upper end of running huge corporations can understand the complexities involved in having change within the walls, and in participating in any kind of interaction with another large organization. Dealing with people and groups is extremely complicated.

Whistle blowers have their place, when they're acting as instruments of change with strategic intent.

This idea that all information can be shared, and all things can be done under the full light of the public, assumes "an international community" which I feel is deeply naive. We do not have the human race acting as one, while maintaining personal culture. We have countries who are acting in their own self interest, striving for their prosperity and influence. Warm and fuzzy ideals do not illuminate a harsh reality. We do not want to disarm those in government who are good at what they do, who could effect great change, and have honest and sincere intent, but need to be able to think in peace when choosing how to move their next chess piece.