"Never forget"

[oeb11]

RD1951 - well written and agreed.

Personally - i believe all people worship the same 'God' - and religious differences are of man - not of 'God' - just different ways reflecting different peoples, cultures, and ways of living.


Except for marxists - Marxism is worshipped by its' acolytes - but is not a 'god ' to be worshipped.

[Why_Yes_I_Do]

Do atheists have a creator? I thought ya'll were a random pile of goo or a walking fish or something.

Try the first sentence/paragraph. Also, check the back of a dollar bill.
Look in the Gettysburg Address, The Emancipation Proclamation, MLK's I have a dream speech, Pledge of Allegiance, Lincoln's 2nd inauguration speech Patrick Henry's Liberty or Death speech...

Originally Posted by reddog1951

So I went back and read the Declaration of Independence and here is the actual sentence quoted by Why_Yes_I_Do:

" We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

It does not say God, nor does it say Christian. Our wise founders used the word "Creator" (as well as "Nature's God" in another sentence). Leaves a lot of wriggle room for a number of beliefs. Another example of misleading info from incomplete quotes, or quotes taken out of context. Again, my remarks are not based on religion, but are aimed at denoting mis-information.

[reddog1951]

Hello again Yes_I_Do. If you recall. I specially asked where the Constitution referenced the Christian religion as that of our nation. That document is the charter of our government, others that you have referred are of course significant, but not of the same relevance. I don't intend to spend my time reviewing each of those lesser documents, but if you would kindly point me to where any reverence CHRISTIANITY (not just God), I'd be willing to review and consider. As an aside, I've treated you with intellectual respect in all my posts, why is it that you can't see fit to return the same?

[pfunkdenver]

Originally Posted by reddog1951

As an aside, I've treated you with intellectual respect in all my posts, why is it that you can't see fit to return the same?

I suspect Why_Yes_I_Do isn't really a Christian. He just pretends on the internet.

Clearly, he's not your intellectual equal. He seems to think repeating the same points over and over is a valid argument. It's not.

[HoeHummer]

Zealots.

[Why_Yes_I_Do]

Originally Posted by pfunkdenver

...He seems to think repeating the same points over and over is a valid argument. It's not.

If'n ya ask the same question repeatedly, you get the same answer.

[Why_Yes_I_Do]

Originally Posted by reddog1951

So I went back and read the Declaration of Independence and here is the actual sentence quoted by Why_Yes_I_Do:

" We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

It does not say God, nor does it say Christian. Our wise founders used the word "Creator" (as well as "Nature's God" in another sentence). Leaves a lot of wriggle room for a number of beliefs. Another example of misleading info from incomplete quotes, or quotes taken out of context. Again, my remarks are not based on religion, but are aimed at denoting mis-information.

Then define what you think they meant by "Creator" and also" Nature's God" in your atheist terms.

Also, what they meant by the second to the last sentence in the Constitution; "Done in Convention by the Unanimous Consent of the States present the Seventeenth Day of September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven and of the Independence of the United States of America the Twelfth."

Not that you care, but Ben Franklin was a "Deist". In a rough nutshell; believed in God/Creator/Nature's God, but was not keen on praying to him for intersession. However, seeing where they were getting kinda stalled out on crafting the Constitution, he suggested that they should pray to the Almighty to bless their endeavor and give them wisdom etc. It was counter proposed that it should be done by a regular Chaplin instead and that became a tradition before every Congress since.

But to answer your non-sequitur; I never said the Constitution said we are a Christian nation.

[oeb11]

Doing teh same thing over and over - expecting different results - is Insanity

Defines the DPST's and LSM well - they offer nothing not twisted, altered , spindled, and Lied about.

[sexykarma]

Originally Posted by Why_Yes_I_Do

Excellent, so long as the funding dollars follow the kid. That's a great idea. Let's just Do It.



Nope. This is a Christian nation. The founders just didn't think you should kill someone over being a member of different church. Freedom of and from are different things altogether (that's why the are spelled differently). They did not want religion to be owned and managed by the State, like it was in England for example. You must have gone to a public school and didn't learnt much.

The founders of this country simply hijacked the religious freedom clause to deem Christianity as the only real religion needing protection, it wasn't really meant to give the same freedoms to other religions out there.

And, as religions go in general, the common motto of all of them is pretty much "Either you're with us or against us"...it's all or nothing with no other stance inbetween.

It doesn't matter what school one goes to to realize the limitations of religious freedom.

[sexykarma]

Originally Posted by Why_Yes_I_Do

It's in the Declaration of Independence
...We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by...You know... That thing...

Are you talking about the same Declaration of Independence that was signed by multiple slave owners.....sign some bullshit paper stating "that all men are created equal"....and then go home and whip their slaves....those black men that don't count on the equality scale....

You suppose any of those guys who signed that actually felt a little bit hypocritical about the whole thing and turned their slaves loose when they got home?

The Declaration of Independence is a proud doctrine now, isn't it?

[Levianon17]

Originally Posted by sexykarma

Count me in as one who thinks they should be sworn in on the constitution, not the bible.

I guess they're too busy trashing the constitution to bother swearing on it anyway.

As far as religion goes, honor the separation of church and state and leave it out of the public schools. If you want your kid to learn a religion send them to a catholic school or a lutheran school or such....leave the public schools alone so the students can learn practical issues like math and reading and writing so they have some life skills instead of praying to some unresponsive god when shit goes bad.

No need for the "In god we trust" dogshit motto on the currency either. Clearly another violation of the separation of church and state. Freedom of religion also means freedom from religion.

What for they don't honor either. They should be sworn in on a deck of cards.

[sexykarma]

Originally Posted by Levianon17

What for they don't honor either. They should be sworn in on a deck of cards.

Yeah, you raise a great point....the only real thing that matters is getting elected.

Talk a lot about rebuilding america and all the good they'll do if they get elected, talk about what a bum the other candidate is....then get in office, get stuck in political gridlock, corruption, or simple ineffectiveness. Kick the can down the road.

It's gonna happen again in a few months, when the next loser-in-chief gets elected. More of the same old shit.

Until major political reform happens and the electoral college is banned there's no reason to vote. Period.

[Levianon17]

Originally Posted by sexykarma

Yeah, you raise a great point....the only real thing that matters is getting elected.

Talk a lot about rebuilding america and all the good they'll do if they get elected, talk about what a bum the other candidate is....then get in office, get stuck in political gridlock, corruption, or simple ineffectiveness. Kick the can down the road.

It's gonna happen again in a few months, when the next loser-in-chief gets elected. More of the same old shit.

Until major political reform happens and the electoral college is banned there's no reason to vote. Period.

Politics has become nothing but a charade. It's Show Biz for ugly people, and the majority of the masses believe their bullshit is real.

[reddog1951]

I basically agree with you Levianon and Kharma, especially about politics as a charade and the masses that believe the bulletin, and I'd add the press that propagates it. Before a rant rebuts, BOTH "sides" are guilty, so I'm not taking sides, just respectfully asking that people stop reading the headlines, dig a little deeper, and understand the contextual content before further disinformation that at first glance, supports what they WANT to believe.

Yeah, I support term limits....I think Nancy and Mitch have both far outlived their usefulness and equally contribute to today's stagnation. Same goes for Supreme Court; lifetime is too long in my opinion, but should be longer than elected terms. I'd also ditch the electoral college as a relic of the past and let the voters rule, but that's a huge change not likely in my lifetime. What I'd especially like to stress is that what I've said so far is my OPINION and not FACT. I have a right to my opinion as do those who disagree. I will respect the opinion of those who disagree, as I hope they do mine, but will not hesitate to challenge opinion presented as fact.

Final point, directed to Karma. Unfortunately, in today's big money politics, most elections are binary...you have to choose between the lesser of two evils, whichever you think (as is your right). Should you choose not to vote, you give up the chance to support at least a little progress as you see it.

[Why_Yes_I_Do]

A random wise person recently said:

Originally Posted by Why_Yes_I_Do

FWIW: SK sounds like a Marxist to me. A pity what we let our edumacation system churn out over the last decade or two.

Originally Posted by sexykarma

...The Declaration of Independence is a proud doctrine now, isn't it?

Not so sure I would call it a proud doctrine. It is more of a divinely inspired vision of a free society, of the people and for the people.

Originally Posted by sexykarma

Are you talking about the same Declaration of Independence that was signed by multiple slave owners.....sign some bullshit paper stating "that all men are created equal"....and then go home and whip their slaves....those black men that don't count on the equality scale....

You really don't know anything useful. Maybe you could start by learning a bit more about "The 3/5ths Compromise" Not just the Wikipedi version either. Then meander through the Civil War on up to Civil Rights movement. After that; get a frick'n clue. Get back to us in 40 years or so.