Stoopid never takes a day off in the guvs office

[Willie Wanker]

Originally Posted by Zollner

Hey it's worse in the National Politics Forum....LOL

I haven't been there in a while. Wtf? It's worse than i remember.
Posting there is like pissing in the wind. Worse than Twitter.

[Zollner]

Originally Posted by Missburger

mens lounge is even better on the national site


as elg has said

that thread yesterday z was the best in a long time on here.

paulina didnt like it too much, but its ok, we need to make sure he gets out of the glass house and stops throwing stones.

Yup, good info provided/traded in the Men's Lounge (Private) - National

[Zollner]

Originally Posted by Next Best Thing

He was a butcher, Z.

Could not care less about the lives of nobodies on the front line.

The body counts were shocking in the War for Southern Independence.

Civil War causalities were the worst of any war we fought. North always had the advantage in men and resources. A massive advantage the South could never match. The Confederacy had no control over the water (sea or rivers), had no real network of railroads, had minimal industrial capacity and less men. They were doomed from the start.

People consider Lee the better General but it is hard to say. Some pretty good generals in the West, like Grant, Sheridan and Sherman crushed their confederate opposition.

Lee faced a series of inept Union battle field generals in the East. McDowell, McClellan, Halleck, Hooker and Burnside had no idea what to do with their men. These Union generals made Lee look good. That said, Lee should not have been as good as he was.

The Union took too long to figure out how to utilize its massive advantages. After Meade defeated Lee at Gettyburg, Lee never took to offense again. When Grant took command, the Confederacy was spent. What Grant did was use his size advantages by smashing his larger, more well supplied army into the exhausted and depleted Confederates, not a brilliant plan but an effective one, which garnered him the butcher moniker.

In truth, Grant and Lee fought for less that a year. Lee and Grant’s armies engaged in May of 1864 and Appomattox was in April of 1865. These Generals never fought each other on equal terms. When Grant took over, his army was strong and getting stronger every day. Lee’s army was weakening with every fight, out of men, supplies and time.

[Next Best Thing]

Z I think the turning point, if you can call it a turning point, was the refusal of both France and England to recognize the Confederate States of America as a separate, sovereign state. If the South were able to trade in cotton with Europe it would have been far more economically viable. If either European power offered military assistance to the South it would have been game over. The CSA consistently won major battles, through Chancellorsville at least.

I also believe, like most, that Vicksburg was a huge setback for the CSA because they completely lost control of the Mississippi River and the south was effectively split in two.

Hard to imagine, looking back, at the temporal proximity of Chancellorsville, Vicksburg, and Gettysburg. Add to that the CSA's loss of Stonewall Jackson Chancellorsville in what was otherwise a spectacular victory for the South and you had an awful lot of momentum for the Northern States.

I also think that Lincoln liked the idea of Grant being so aggressive and of him being a butcher with little regard for human life. Think of this in contrast to his constant issues with McClellan and McClellan's passivity. Of course we also need to remember that McClellan was politically opposed to Lincoln.

Remember the presidential election of 1864. Greatest example as I can think of in terms of a deep-stater who acted in opposition to a sitting president for overtly political purposes. Also funny how Lincoln was able to essentially fire McClellan twice for timidity without massive political resistance. The country was different back then, evidently.

Z2020

[Zollner]

European countries had enough problems, so cared little about aiding the CSA. It was a very turbulent time, as wars such as the Crimean War, shifted and shook European politics, as well as the expansion of colonization towards the Far East, which sparked conflicts like a Second Opium War.

From Wiki: Chancellorsville is known as Lee's "perfect battle" because his risky decision to divide his army in the presence of a much larger enemy force resulted in a significant Confederate victory. The victory, a product of Lee's audacity and Hooker's timid decision-making, was tempered by heavy casualties, including Lt. Gen. Thomas J. "Stonewall" Jackson. Jackson was hit by friendly fire, requiring his left arm to be amputated. He died of pneumonia eight days later, a loss that Lee likened to losing his right arm. Lee's difficulty in replacing his lost men as well as his inability to prevent the Union withdrawal effectively have led to his great victory being regarded as a Pyrrhic one.

In addition General Hooker not receiving proper supplies direly needed helped lead to this Confederate Pyrrhic victory.

Lincoln wanted to end it asap. So Lincoln ordered Grant and Sherman to smash and slash through the South, which both brutally did. One can argue Sherman's March to the Sea, was a precursor to Gen Patton's tactics in WWII.

[Guest072323]

Take this off topic as much as you want Z....

Back to the queation.....

Paper, plastic or reusable.....

You are as good as Stewie with non answers....

[Next Best Thing]

Burnside carries around a reputation as one of the worst field generals on either side in the War for Southern Independence.

Extremely disorganized. Very unpopular. Talked quite a bit of shit.

Not sure how much better Hooker actually was.

My own opinion is that if the South had more resources they would have won their independence in early to mid 1862 or so.

Agree with the points made about Sherman. Sheridan as well.

Funny but these people were far less aggressive in the Plains Indian Wars, probably because the army's resources were depleted and the American government had zero respect for the savage, virtually prehistoric Indian tribes as legitimate opposition.

Z2020.

[Zollner]

Originally Posted by Next Best Thing

My own opinion is that if the South had more resources they would have won their independence in early to mid 1862 or so.

Agree with the points made about Sherman. Sheridan as well.

Funny but these people were far less aggressive in the Plains Indian Wars, probably because the army's resources were depleted and the American government had zero respect for the savage, virtually prehistoric Indian tribes as legitimate opposition.

Z2020.

South being mainly Agrarian and underdeveloped, never had any chance against the Industrialized North possessing all kinds of massive resources.

Like in the Indian Wars the North was disorganized at first fighting the CSA. Lee saw this hoping to exploit and take the North by surprise early on aggressively attacking North but he failed, in spite of going against marginal Union Generals of the East.
Lincoln then sent in his A-Team Generals and Lee was toast.

[Missburger]

Originally Posted by Paulie Rockstar

Take this off topic as much as you want Z....

Back to the queation.....

Paper, plastic or reusable.....

You are as good as Stewie with non answers....

still never answered if its illegal paying a hooker,

i gave my opinion on this, i love the plastic bags

I dont care for the paper bags never did.

[Guest072323]

Originally Posted by Missburger

still never answered if its illegal paying a hooker,

of course it is... though it isn't distasteful....

[Missburger]

Originally Posted by Paulie Rockstar

of course it is... though it isn't distasteful....

so when a gobc memb er goes to court over a divorce do you think the distasteful defense is a good one?

lol

i believe they found out it wasnt.

damn these board rules we cant discuss those cases but you know how they turned out

[Guest072323]

Originally Posted by Missburger

so when a gobc memb er goes to court over a divorce do you think the distasteful defense is a good one?

lol

i believe they found out it wasnt.

damn these board rules we cant discuss those cases but you know how they turned out

I thinck you have your facts wrong... but that's nothing new...
or of course... goodness gracious... you are listening to clam chowder eating vikings....
Did you know that clam chowder is a lot like stew??

[Zollner]

Originally Posted by Paulie Rockstar

I thinck you have your facts wrong... but that's nothing new...
or of course... goodness gracious... you are listening to clam chowder eating vikings....
Did you know that clam chowder is a lot like stew??

Wasn't your extra clam handle BANNED?

[Guest072323]

Wow... you really don't know.... what you don't know.... Maybe Stewie or NBT can give you the history of everyone's previous handles....

Thanks for the big ol belly laugh.....

[Zollner]

Originally Posted by Paulie Rockstar

Thanks for the big ol belly laugh.....

Well you surely got the belly for it....LOL