Venezuela shuts schools, businesses as blackout enters second day

[Ducbutter]

Originally Posted by Tiny

Chavez was elected president of Venezuela in 1998, and the country didn't start to crumble until 2015. Lenin took over Russia in 1917, and certainly into the 1960's some people were pointing to the Soviet Union as a development model. In the long run you're right though. It doesn't work, and, if you're talking about a system where the state owns and controls the means of production, it's always corrupt and inefficient.

A development model? Are you kidding? Those poor bastards had nothing until the fall. And the little they did have came at the cost of tens of millions of lives. Lenin and Stalin used identity politics to turn the lowest classes of peasants against the Kulaks, who were only slightly more affluent and probably a single generation removed from serfdom. The resulting persecution resulted in the deaths of as many as 6 million Kulaks not to mention those that were raped and sent to the gulags. And since the Kulaks were Russia's most productive farmers the resulting famine cost millions more deaths due to starvation. If that's your idea of development you can keep it.

I am constantly amazed at those who are apologists for collectivist ideology and who chronically gloss over the body counts stacked up like so much cord wood. I'm not sure if it's ignorance or outright evil. Either way, it's despicable. I sincerely hope that's not your intent and if not I apologize to you.

[nevergaveitathought]

Originally Posted by JRLawrence

It was tried in The Soviet Union, and it failed. Until chages were made in China, to reward individual rewards for their work, it failed.

In short, socialism has always failed because it doesn't value the individual right to be rewarded for the work and effort he puts forth. The result is to ask why an individual should work at all because the effort is not rewarded.

It is socialism's fault.


How it works: Watch this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sMZNcxdoCA

it was but sarcasm my friend

the left always claims a retry and this time it will be us, they say, so we will get it right

typing silent words to be read and understood by another can be fraught with interpretive miscues

gone is knowledge of person, inflection, eye twinkle, tone and a certain real-time context

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by Yssup Rider

Agreed. However, the programs at the heart of Trump’s New Red Scare are things like tuition free state public universities and Medicare for All/National Health Care.

Good points Yssup. Tuition and medical costs are way out of control. I'm a strong believer in the free enterprise system, but it's broken in these areas. Many university students and most patients get poor value for what's spent. The very-justified fear on the right is whether the federal government will muck things up even worse by becoming more involved. There are countries that spend less providing national health care than we spend on Medicare and Medicaid alone, and they have better health outcomes. Some provide free tuition, but they're not going to pay for your 5 year medical education unless you score in the top 1/2 of 1% out of high school. And you're not going to be allowed to waste time getting an undergraduate degree.

Theoretically we could have what you want, without higher government spending. However, there would have to be huge changes, and our federal politicians don't have the wisdom and courage to make them.

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by Ducbutter

A development model? Are you kidding? Those poor bastards had nothing until the fall. And the little they did have came at the cost of tens of millions of lives. Lenin and Stalin used identity politics to turn the lowest classes of peasants against the Kulaks, who were only slightly more affluent and probably a single generation removed from serfdom. The resulting persecution resulted in the deaths of as many as 6 million Kulaks not to mention those that were raped and sent to the gulags. And since the Kulaks were Russia's most productive farmers the resulting famine cost millions more deaths due to starvation. If that's your idea of development you can keep it.

I am constantly amazed at those who are apologists for collectivist ideology and who chronically gloss over the body counts stacked up like so much cord wood. I'm not sure if it's ignorance or outright evil. Either way, it's despicable. I sincerely hope that's not your intent and if not I apologize to you.

OK, let me clarify that. Idiots used the Soviet Union as a development model up through the 1960's. Examples include Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, Myanmar, Chile and Cuba. Angola and India were influenced by it. Venezuela and the Soviet Union stayed afloat without plunging their people into destitution longer than most in part because of huge oil resources.

Then there was the next group of idiots who were influenced by the idiots in Cuba and Venezuela. Bolivia, Nicaragua, Ecuador, Brazil and Argentina were fellow travelers, to an extent. People don't learn from history.

[nevergaveitathought]

Originally Posted by Tiny

Good points Yssup. Tuition and medical costs are way out of control. I'm a strong believer in the free enterprise system, but it's broken in these areas. Many university students and most patients get poor value for what's spent. The very-justified fear on the right is whether the federal government will muck things up even worse by becoming more involved. There are countries that spend less providing national health care than we spend on Medicare and Medicaid alone, and they have better health outcomes. Some provide free tuition, but they're not going to pay for your 5 year medical education unless you score in the top 1/2 of 1% out of high school. And you're not going to be allowed to waste time getting an undergraduate degree.

Theoretically we could have what you want, without higher government spending. However, there would have to be huge changes, and our federal politicians don't have the wisdom and courage to make them.

medical costs are a complex issue and one thing that needs addressing

but I'd lay much of the blame for high tuition costs at the feet of the government

easy money, easy loans , makes it easy for college administrators to feather their nests and so the costs escalate

just an example, it was an eye opener for me during the penn state/joe paterno drama when penn state's administration became embroiled and many had to resign with lifetime pensions pushing $350,000 -$400,000 or so a year

[dilbert firestorm]

Originally Posted by Tiny

Chavez was elected president of Venezuela in 1998, and the country didn't start to crumble until 2015. Lenin took over Russia in 1917, and certainly into the 1960's some people were pointing to the Soviet Union as a development model. In the long run you're right though. It doesn't work, and, if you're talking about a system where the state owns and controls the means of production, it's always corrupt and inefficient.

first mention food lines in the soviet union was in their first 5 year plan, 1928 -1933. (stalin era)



I think that is when it failed. they've been winging it until they couldn't do it anymore.

[lustylad]

Originally Posted by themystic

Explain something to me oeb. How in the fuck is Venezuelans problems tied to the Democratic Party in the US? If there is some major fucking problem look at the Nazi in the White House. You need to wake the fuck up

Explain something to me mystic... how in the fuck are Venezuela's problems tied to... "the Nazi in the White House"?

Fucking troll.

Originally Posted by themystic

Our once proud military has turned into a bunch of snowflakes under Trump. Sad. Even General Kelly said they were an embarrasment (sic)

Got a link for that Gen. Kelly remark, mystic?

Fucking troll.

[lustylad]

Originally Posted by oeb11

The Cubans, Russians, and Chinese all have a presence in Venezuela - and they will not give up their Western Hemisphere country base easily, despite the cost to the Venezuelan free people. I would bet 50/50 that Guaido will be disappeared by the Cubans in conjunction with Maduro.

The Russians flew a pair of Tu-160 strategic bombers to Caracas in December as a show of support for Maduro. But they don't have a "base" in the country and neither does China. China has loaned up to $20 billion to Venezuela and this debt is not being serviced right now. Neither are Russia's loans. Both countries are therefore somewhat conflicted. While they continue to support Maduro publicly, in private they may be calculating that their chances of being repaid would improve substantially if a Guaido regime came in, reversed all of the disastrous socialist policies, restored international confidence and put Venezuela's oil industry back on its feet. Here's a quick summary:

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/07/vene...ght-rages.html

Cuba is still Maduro's ace in the hole. There are an estimated 15,000 Cubans living in Venezuela. They provide Maduro with a tight personal security team and have advised for years on keeping a solid grip on the military. In return, Venezuela supplies oil to Cuba at a steeply discounted price. Without the Cuban presence, I believe Maduro would be gone by now. Latin American countries have a long history of ruining their economies by flirting with socialism, only to be saved by a coup or other remedy wherein a non-socialist government takes over and reverses course. The Cuban factor is prolonging Venezuela's agony. With the latest power failures, the situation is extremely grim.

[Yssup Rider]

Can you get by without calling other vulgar names, LL?

I’d think a man of such eloquence could make his point more eloquently.

I can’t answer for TM. But i’ll Say a lot of what’s ailing the world today is directly affected by the man sitting in front of his TV in the White House.

What has he done to help the world?

If you’re unconcerned with the world like Trump is, LL, then why do you give a shit what anybody has to say about Venezuela?

[The_Waco_Kid]

Originally Posted by Yssup Rider

Can you get by without calling other vulgar names, LL?

I’d think a man of such eloquence could make his point more eloquently.

I can’t answer for TM. But i’ll Say a lot of what’s ailing the world today is directly affected by the man sitting in front of his TV in the White House.

What has he done to help the world?

If you’re unconcerned with the world like Trump is, LL, then why do you give a shit what anybody has to say about Venezuela?

what has he done to help America?


anything you can think of?

[lustylad]

Originally Posted by Yssup Rider

If you’re unconcerned with the world like Trump is, LL, then why do you give a shit what anybody has to say about Venezuela?

??? Where do you come up with this nonsense? Unconcerned with the world?

Trump just successfully put together an international coalition that has recognized Guaido as Venezuela's legitimate President.

And I was writing about global events before you even started skinny dipping at Lake Travis.

Try to contribute substance to a discussion for a change.

[themystic]

Originally Posted by lustylad

Explain something to me mystic... how in the fuck are Venezuela's problems tied to... "the Nazi in the White House"?

Fucking troll.




Got a link for that Gen. Kelly remark, mystic?

Fucking troll.

You really are a troll and fucking dumb one at that. Defending a man with 9,000 lies and counting! LMAO. Whos the fucking troll. That would be you. Your just a scardy cat pussy who wears his MAGA hat at home because you are to afraid to voice your opinion in public. Panty boy for Trump LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Want a link. Here you go panty boy

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graph...=.68d362fba195

[Ducbutter]

Originally Posted by Tiny

OK, let me clarify that. Idiots used the Soviet Union as a development model up through the 1960's. Examples include Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, Myanmar, Chile and Cuba. Angola and India were influenced by it. Venezuela and the Soviet Union stayed afloat without plunging their people into destitution longer than most in part because of huge oil resources.

Then there was the next group of idiots who were influenced by the idiots in Cuba and Venezuela. Bolivia, Nicaragua, Ecuador, Brazil and Argentina were fellow travelers, to an extent. People don't learn from history.

Thanks for clarifying. The original post seemed conflicted to me and I couldn't see exactly where you were going with it. Your follow up was spot on.I am always amazed at how those on the left, along with clear thinking folks of all political stripes, rightly rail against the murderous excesses of the authoritarian ideologues of the identitarian right but they have this enormous blind spot when it comes to the far higher death tolls associated with left wing authoritarianism.

[Ducbutter]

Originally Posted by lustylad

Fucking troll.

Truer words were never spoken!

[themystic]

Originally Posted by Ducbutter

Truer words were never spoken!

Thanks for your in-depth look at the evils of Socialism. I still fail to see how you tie the American Democratic party to any of the world wide problems associated with Socialism.Being a capitalist I really don't much of a rats ass about socialist countries. But when you bring up all the death, etc. tied to the evil empires don't you think its a little ironic that suddenly our "besties"new friends are Russia, North Korea and Saudi Arabia under Trump. Your as big a hypocrite as your Troll in law Lusty. Your both "intellectual" phonies