The Case for Progressive Taxation

[Guest123018-4]

You can take any p[art of the government largess and it is all borrowed money from people that have no say in what the government is dong, our children and grandchildren.
This nation cannot afford to maintain what we and our forebears have created and yet there are those that are crying for the government to do more and call it free.
Only an idiot could believe that anything from the government is free except to them that contribute nothing.

The answer is not higher taxes as we can already see that for those that contribute the amount paid in total taxes can and does exceed 50% of income.

The solution is smaller more efficient government and less taxes. the problem is ever growing government and high taxes.

I met an idiot once that said this nations rich enough to afford free health care for everybody. Hell we cant pay the bills we have now much less take on more debt. Stop stealing from our children and their children and their children.

[Guest123018-4]

Each person that makes up the population of these United States is on the hook for about 58,000.00each. I will gladly pay my portion today in cash if you can get all the rest to do the same.

[SassySue]

Originally Posted by gnadfly

Sassy,

Please read and fully understand Tiny's posts before you respond further.

Like another poster said, a major reason US companies are shipping jobs overseas is because of the taxes here.

BTW, before you "retired" how much of your revenue did you claim on your 1040?

And make me a sammich.

I did read his post and I did respond appropriately. How much revenue I claimed on my 1040 is none of your business. Find something better to do.

[I B Hankering]

Originally Posted by SassySue

I did read his post and I did respond appropriately. How much revenue I claimed on my 1040 is none of your business. Find something better to do.

You're a typical, supercilious, lib-retarded hypocrite: what you pay is nobody else's business, but what other people pay somehow is your business, and you don't believe they pay enough.

[SassySue]

Originally Posted by Chung Tran

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016...on-greece.html

we are beginning to realize that, but I fear we are going to elect Clinton this Fall.. despite Trump and Sanders garnering large support, we still aren't there.. not enough people realize or care.. it will come down to the fact that Clinton will pass out more money, will promise more to the same people she and Obama have fucked over for 8 years.

Thanks for sharing the article. Just what I was afraid of when I found out Clinton is being supported by the same republications who supported Bush during his administration. Although Noam Chomsky was in favor of Bernie Sanders, he seems to be of the notion we should still vote democrat, no matter who the candidate. What do you think? I sure wish Bernie Sanders was the candidate.

See this article:

http://www.rawstory.com/2016/01/noam...a-swing-state/

[gfejunkie]

Originally Posted by I B Hankering

You're a typical, supercilious, lib-retarded hypocrite: what you pay is nobody else's business, but what other people pay somehow is your business, and you don't believe they pay enough.

With every post she makes the picture becomes more and more clear. She's nothing but a leech. A parasite on the government dole.

[Chung Tran]

Originally Posted by The2Dogs

You can take any p[art of the government largess and it is all borrowed money from people that have no say in what the government is dong, our children and grandchildren.
Stop stealing from our children and their children and their children.

with all due respect, if I read that "stealing from our children and grandchildren shit again, I am going to puke!

the statement reflects no understanding of our debt and its creation.. follow me on this.

the debt is an accounting entry.. created by our Fiat Federal Reserve System.
your statement suggests ALL outstanding debt will come due at one single point in time, and our progeny will take out their checkbooks and pay it off. it doesn't work that way.. the debt is "retired" through accounting entries, and rolls over continuously, new debt is issued, interest rates change.. you debt freaks never mention we receive lots of goods and services for this "money".

Originally Posted by SassySue

Noam Chomsky was in favor of Bernie Sanders, he seems to be of the notion we should still vote democrat, no matter who the candidate. What do you think? I sure wish Bernie Sanders was the candidate.

no Hillary Clinton! the point of the Trump/Sanders candidacies is to get these rascals out! I'm supporting Trump, but Sanders would be my next choice, easy..

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by Chung Tran

with all due respect, if I read that "stealing from our children and grandchildren shit again, I am going to puke!

the statement reflects no understanding of our debt and its creation.. follow me on this.

the debt is an accounting entry.. created by our Fiat Federal Reserve System.
your statement suggests ALL outstanding debt will come due at one single point in time, and our progeny will take out their checkbooks and pay it off. it doesn't work that way.. the debt is "retired" through accounting entries, and rolls over continuously, new debt is issued, interest rates change.. you debt freaks never mention we receive lots of goods and services for this "money".

This reasoning makes me puke. (You don't make me puke - I enjoy your posts.) We have $19.6 trillion in federal debt. Add to that $50 to $100 trillion in unfunded social security, Medicare and Medicaid liabilities over the next 75 years and it gets scary. Given that these are Ponzi schemes, where current retirees are drawing out much more than they put in, our children and grandchildren are going to get stuck with large payments to support the programs going forward. That's unless they figuratively throw us on the streets by deciding to cut benefits.

[gnadfly]

Originally Posted by SassySue

I did read his post and I did respond appropriately.

But you didn't understand it. I can tell by your response.

Originally Posted by SassySue

How much revenue I claimed on my 1040 is none of your business.

I should have stated "what percentage of revenue" did you claim on your 1040? My guess is if you aren't as big of a cheater as the big companies you claim to despise, you're in the ballpark.

Originally Posted by SassySue

Find something better to do.

Here's a suggestion, put yourself on ignore.

[CuteOldGuy]

Originally Posted by Chung Tran

with all due respect, if I read that "stealing from our children and grandchildren shit again, I am going to puke!

the statement reflects no understanding of our debt and its creation.. follow me on this.

the debt is an accounting entry.. created by our Fiat Federal Reserve System.
your statement suggests ALL outstanding debt will come due at one single point in time, and our progeny will take out their checkbooks and pay it off. it doesn't work that way.. the debt is "retired" through accounting entries, and rolls over continuously, new debt is issued, interest rates change.. you debt freaks never mention we receive lots of goods and services for

How long will we be "servicing" this debt? Is there an amount of debt that is too much? What goods and services do we get from this debt? How much of this debt is due to waste and fraud? What if the bond holders expect to be repaid? What happens to the value of money as the supply of it increases?


I don't think you understand debt, Chun King.

[nwarounder]

Originally Posted by SassySue

I want to start a discussion about progressive taxation. I also have a question. How in the world is the national deficit supposed to be paid down without it? I, for one, would like say that if I earned $300,000 per year, I would gladly pay up to 30 percent of my annual income in taxes, if that was what I actually owed in taxes after all deductions for social security, etc. I have absolutely no problem with it! Note this excerpt from Wikipedia about progressive tax:

Progressive taxation has a direct effect on reducing income inequality.[13] This is especially true if taxation is used to fund progressive government spending such as transfer payments and social safety nets.[12] However, the effect may be muted if the higher rates cause increased tax evasion.[13][24] When income inequality is low, aggregate demand will be relatively high, because more people who want ordinary consumer goods and services will be able to afford them, while the labor force will not be as relatively monopolized by the wealthy.[25][26] High levels of income inequality can have negative effects on long-term economic growth, employment, and class conflict.[27][28] Progressive taxation is often suggested as a way to mitigate the societal ills associated with higher income inequality.[12] The difference between the Gini index for an income distribution before taxation and the Gini index after taxation is an indicator for the effects of such taxation.[29]


Note how it has a direct impact on income inequality and the rest of the economy. It's easy to see why the gap between the rich and the poor has grown so astronomically over the decades, especially since the tax code has been consistently altered to suit the multi-national corporations and banking interests, as well as the super rich who hardly pay any income tax at all (percentage wise). The taxes on capital gains have also been cut, as well as taxes on investment income. If we actually went back to a much simpler tax code or more progressive one, the deficit would go down, the gap between the rich and poor would level out, and the economy would strengthen. I just cannot understand why these large multi-national corporations are getting away without paying any income tax on their enormous profits. Also, Bank of America and companies like Verizon. Do you honestly think it's fair? Be honest.

Generally speaking when referring to a progressive tax system, most people would be talking about personal income taxes. Corporate taxes are tricky when it comes to politics, because if you raise it too high companies will just leave the country. Remember Obama crying like a little baby when Target packed up and headed to Canada because of high taxes? While it may be true that a few companies in any given year may benefit from the tax code, most pay taxes year after year. And all pay employees that pay taxes on their salaries, so they are directly providing an income stream to the feds week after week, all of them. It's fair to them or they leave, doesn't matter what you and I think is fair.

As far as a progressive tax on personal income, it's completely unfair to ALL the hard working, productive members of society to work their ass off and have their income taxes redistributed to somebody sitting on the couch all day eating Cheetos, watchin Maury and becoming obese. And most often breeding. Then the working guy has to subsidize their health insurance because they are ridden with diseases and popping out babies left and right for more government assistance. It's completely not fair.

[gfejunkie]

Obama: "You major corporations will stay in the United States and you will pay these confiscatory taxes!"

Major corporations: "Uh, no."

[Chung Tran]

Originally Posted by Tiny

Given that these are Ponzi schemes, where current retirees are drawing out much more than they put in, our children and grandchildren are going to get stuck with large payments to support the programs going forward. That's unless they figuratively throw us on the streets by deciding to cut benefits.

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

How long will we be "servicing" this debt? Is there an amount of debt that is too much? What goods and services do we get from this debt? How much of this debt is due to waste and fraud? What if the bond holders expect to be repaid? What happens to the value of money as the supply of it increases?


I don't think you understand debt, Chun King.

we have been servicing the debt for a long time, many years, and the world is still spinning.. if you are old enough, you remember when Carter was President, and we had about $30 Billion in deficit.. the nay sayers were saying our economic system would collapse under that debt.. our Economic textbooks and pundits declared that increasing debt would spiral inflation.. cause bond interest rates to escalate.

well inflation did spiral, and bond yields jumped.. for a short time.. enter Reagan and a new vision of debt management, not only in the US, but worldwide.. it is not only our Country that has massive deficits.. and this debt has reached crazy proportions, absolutely unheard of or imagined 20-30 years ago.. and?

we currently have the lowest 10 year bond yields in history.. negative interest rates in a few, and growing, Countries. inflation is tame, and has been since the 1980's.

what do you have to say about that?

[SassySue]

Originally Posted by The2Dogs

You can take any p[art of the government largess and it is all borrowed money from people that have no say in what the government is dong, our children and grandchildren.
This nation cannot afford to maintain what we and our forebears have created and yet there are those that are crying for the government to do more and call it free.
Only an idiot could believe that anything from the government is free except to them that contribute nothing.

The answer is not higher taxes as we can already see that for those that contribute the amount paid in total taxes can and does exceed 50% of income.

The solution is smaller more efficient government and less taxes. the problem is ever growing government and high taxes.

I met an idiot once that said this nations rich enough to afford free health care for everybody. Hell we cant pay the bills we have now much less take on more debt. Stop stealing from our children and their children and their children.

I don't think taxes should exceed 50% of total income. That is too high. There should be a cap at 50%. It should stop there.

[SassySue]

Originally Posted by nwarounder

Generally speaking when referring to a progressive tax system, most people would be talking about personal income taxes. Corporate taxes are tricky when it comes to politics, because if you raise it too high companies will just leave the country. Remember Obama crying like a little baby when Target packed up and headed to Canada because of high taxes? While it may be true that a few companies in any given year may benefit from the tax code, most pay taxes year after year. And all pay employees that pay taxes on their salaries, so they are directly providing an income stream to the feds week after week, all of them. It's fair to them or they leave, doesn't matter what you and I think is fair.

As far as a progressive tax on personal income, it's completely unfair to ALL the hard working, productive members of society to work their ass off and have their income taxes redistributed to somebody sitting on the couch all day eating Cheetos, watchin Maury and becoming obese. And most often breeding. Then the working guy has to subsidize their health insurance because they are ridden with diseases and popping out babies left and right for more government assistance. It's completely not fair.

For one thing, not everyone is sitting on the couch all day popping out babies. Many of these single mothers are raising babies alone because the Fathers bailed on them. They didn't ask for it. Thankfully, I only had one child. I took birth control and did the smart thing. I was able to do clerical work and landed a legal secretarial career for awhile until the law firms started to downsize. At one point, when my daughter was younger and I wasn't getting child support in the 80's, the case worker told me I was better off on welfare because at the time I was only making $9 - $10 per hour I believe. It was in Indiana and my daughter was only three years old. By the time I paid the babysitter, rent, and other expenses, we did not have enough to live on. That is the problem for single mothers living without child support. Even living with child support, its hard to get buy. Wages have been stagnant since the mid seventies. Yet, the cost of living has risen astronomically. The economy today is based on two incomes. It's hard to get by on one income. I do think that birth control should be used in a responsible manner by all women who are sexually active. I did go on welfare for awhile, as the social worker suggested, but went to school for computer programming. When I realized I was only going to make $8.00 per hour after graduating, I was horrified! I got a job waitressing making $12 with tips, and only reported $5, so I was able to get some food stamps and free babysitting, since I was in a lower income bracket. That's how I got by for awhile, until she got older. Do you see what I am saying? The systems works against these people because if they try to work, the jobs don't pay enough to cover their expenses and then they don't qualify for low income housing, food stamps, and Medicaid.