I can't believe this hasn't been discussed yet

[Grathic]

I keep hearing people say that Islam is a peaceful religion. Where do you get that idea from?

Islam is a violent religion. "Mind what people do, not only what they say, for their deeds will betray their lies." You don't think Islamic people are violent? Draw a picture of muhammad, let me know how that goes for you.

Are there passages in the Bible that advocate violence? Yep, there sure are. Don't see alot of christian mass murders done in the name of religion these days though. Note, I say in the name of, not committed by people that happen to also be christian.

Some folks here want to use Timothy McVeigh as an example. Are you stupid? He never said he was motivated by religious beliefs. Using him as an example of christian religious extremest is just idiotic.

[Happy Diver]

Originally Posted by Grathic

I keep hearing people say that Islam is a peaceful religion. Where do you get that idea from?

Islam is a violent religion. "Mind what people do, not only what they say, for their deeds will betray their lies." You don't think Islamic people are violent? Draw a picture of muhammad, let me know how that goes for you.

This is true. While Christianity in the past probably vied with Islam for being the most violent religion, today Islam remains a violent, intolerant religion. In many Islamic countries either churches are not allowed or they are not allowed to show crosses or other means of advertising their presence. Christian missionaries are not allowed in many Islamic countries.

[charlestudor2005]

You really can't compare the freedom of religion in the US to the lack of freedom of religion elsewhere, and say it is due to a religion's "violence."

It is lack of tolerance and the history of the region. Most Muslim countries have been dictatorships/kingdoms for hundreds of thousands of years. That is their heritage. The gov't controls everything from birth to death, including what the state religion is. The US is crazy, IMO, to try and "democratize" these countries. There is too much history, culture and tradition against it. It would be like changing the US into a dictatorship. It just won't wash.

These countries have traditionally dictated the state religion. Most of the Mideast is Muslim. Israel is Jewish. Lebanon is Christian. The US doesn't dictate a state religion. But because other countries dictate a state religion and oppress other than the state religion doesn't mean they are "violent." It just means they have a system different from our democracy/republic.

If you are going to use this kind of thing to categorize countries, China is the worst: it oppresses all religions.

[ElisabethWhispers]

Where is Ansley? Just curious.

Hugs,
Elisabeth

[Happy Diver]

Originally Posted by charlestudor2005

You really can't compare the freedom of religion in the US to the lack of freedom of religion elsewhere, and say it is due to a religion's "violence."

It is lack of tolerance and the history of the region. Most Muslim countries have been dictatorships/kingdoms for hundreds of thousands of years. That is their heritage. The gov't controls everything from birth to death, including what the state religion is. The US is crazy, IMO, to try and "democratize" these countries. There is too much history, culture and tradition against it. It would be like changing the US into a dictatorship. It just won't wash.

These countries have traditionally dictated the state religion. Most of the Mideast is Muslim. Israel is Jewish. Lebanon is Christian. The US doesn't dictate a state religion. But because other countries dictate a state religion and oppress other than the state religion doesn't mean they are "violent." It just means they have a system different from our democracy/republic.

If you are going to use this kind of thing to categorize countries, China is the worst: it oppresses all religions.

Intolerance breeds violence.

[pjorourke]

Originally Posted by discreetgent

PJ: Unlike you I think it will get built. I do agree that someone will try and blow it up; the security costs will be high.

You are underestimating the power of the building trade unions in NYC.

[Guest050715-1]

I sincerely hope that City Hall doesn’t let the mosque get permitted because it is supposedly the “right thing to do” because it isn’t. It’s wrong. Ground Zero isn’t their place. They created it. But it isn’t theirs. It’s ours. Whoever’s brain child this project is knows that this is sacred ground. They know that it belongs to others. That is exactly why they want to build their mosque at Ground Zero. I don’t want to stop their mosque and community center from being built. I just don’t want it built where innocent people were murdered in the name of someone’s God. It’s not right, and they know it isn't right. Period.

[..]

Originally Posted by Ansley

I would love to hear the opinions from people about the mosque being built in New York.

Michael Scheuer (former CIA expert for Bin Laden issues) has two excellent blog posts:

http://non-intervention.com/537/al-q...mosque-debate/

http://non-intervention.com/542/nyc-...ast-be-candid/

[Happy Diver]

Originally Posted by ..

Michael Scheuer (former CIA expert for Bin Laden issues) has two excellent blog posts:

http://non-intervention.com/537/al-q...mosque-debate/

http://non-intervention.com/542/nyc-...ast-be-candid/

Good commentary, thanks for sharing.

[charlestudor2005]

Originally Posted by OliviaHoward

I sincerely hope that City Hall doesn’t let the mosque get permitted because it is supposedly the “right thing to do” because it isn’t. It’s wrong. Ground Zero isn’t their place. They created it. But it isn’t theirs. It’s ours. Whoever’s brain child this project is knows that this is sacred ground. They know that it belongs to others. That is exactly why they want to build their mosque at Ground Zero. I don’t want to stop their mosque and community center from being built. I just don’t want it built where innocent people were murdered in the name of someone’s God. It’s not right, and they know it isn't right. Period.

Not to be nit-picky or anything, but it isn't at ground zero. It's two blocks away. At two blocks away, the buildings are still the same ones that were there in 2001.

So, if you wanna say that anything "near" GZ is "our place," how far out do you go? 1 Block? They are outside that area. 2 Blocks? That's arguable. 3 Blocks? How far? All of Manhattan? Or a 1 mile radius from the center of GZ?

It's a slippery slope. But it isn't GZ. Rebuilding is currently occurring on GZ, with some stores already open to customers. Capitalism. That's the true victory.

[Guest050715-1]

Originally Posted by charlestudor2005

Not to be nit-picky or anything, but it isn't at ground zero. It's two blocks away. At two blocks away, the buildings are still the same ones that were there in 2001.

So, if you wanna say that anything "near" GZ is "our place," how far out do you go? 1 Block? They are outside that area. 2 Blocks? That's arguable. 3 Blocks? How far? All of Manhattan? Or a 1 mile radius from the center of GZ?

It's a slippery slope. But it isn't GZ. Rebuilding is currently occurring on GZ, with some stores already open to customers. Capitalism. That's the true victory.

Lo que sia. It is a block or two away. Like PJ said, “It’s just fucking rude.” I don’t care what high horse people want to jump on about this topic. It isn’t right. It is ours. They have the legal right to build it there; they just shouldn’t. And no amount of yammering on about freedom of religion or whatever will change that. Trashing capitalism for building shops there won’t make it right to build the mosque in what would be the shadow of the World Trade Towers – if they hadn’t BLOWN THEM UP!

Say someone firebombs your house and kills your family while you are out of town. And then later if the relatives of that said someone moved in down the street from you after you rebuilt your house and put up a big sign that said “We’re here!” it would piss you off.

[Guest083011]

I know, talk about "duck and cover." Or eating her popcorn and watching the show:

Originally Posted by ElisabethWhispers

Where is Ansley? Just curious. Hugs, Elisabeth

[Happy Diver]

Originally Posted by OliviaHoward

Lo que sia. It is a block or two away. Like PJ said, “It’s just fucking rude.” I don’t care what high horse people want to jump on about this topic. It isn’t right. It is ours. They have the legal right to build it there; they just shouldn’t. And no amount of yammering on about freedom of religion or whatever will change that. Trashing capitalism for building shops there won’t make it right to build the mosque in what would be the shadow of the World Trade Towers – if they hadn’t BLOWN THEM UP!

Say someone firebombs your house and kills your family while you are out of town. And then later if the relatives of that said someone moved in down the street from you after you rebuilt your house and put up a big sign that said “We’re here!” it would piss you off.

Well said.

[Clerkenwell]

The world is awash with places of worship. No matter how well intentioned most of their supporters are, each is a testament to irrationality. We should be trying to cut off its oxygen supply, not feed it.

However,US tolerance would be demonstrated by permitting its construction. To hell with any claims (or fears) of some moron declaring a militant Islamist 'victory' if it's built. An idiot screaming 'I won' is still an idiot.

[Mokoa]

It should not be built.

It probably will not be built. Are they really going to be able to find enough people in that area who will choose to participate in its construction? Over the weekend I saw a news report where they were interviewing construction workers and every one of them said they would not work on that job.