tea party a movement or nuts

[Bartman1963]

I don't believe the whole tea party movement is racist. That would be an generalization and though I do make those, in this case it would be wrong to do so.

Truly, tea parties may have touched a nerve, and in this area of the country and a few others they may speak for a majority. But the over the top nature of what some of them are doing is going to keep all of their views from getting the respect that some of those views deserve nationwide.

Telling someone that you don't want any more taxes...who can't relate to that? But why do some feel the need to be so hateful? Fear. Responsible political leaders need to step up and say, "this man is President. We are not the party that will say these things. We are not the party that will continue to demonize and sow fear."

Perhaps the tea parties are the result of the leadership vacuum at the top of the Republican party right now just as much as the fear that pervades. There seems to be confusion on the right regarding what to say unless it is "no". What policies to put forth, etc. I understand that. It's hard to come up with good new ideas.

Good new ideas are what is required though. De-regulation, a core belief of Reagan Conservatives, and enabled by Democrats, had its run. In the end that policy brought about the financial crises we are in. That and the fact that we didn't enforce the regulations we did have effectively. The blame? Who cares? This isn't a destroyer somebody ran aground, its a country, an economy. We didn't get here because one party or another did it, we all did it.

I am preaching I know, but it is time that Republicans and conservatives try to come together with Democrats and Liberals. We need good ideas from both sides. If we continue the politics of demonization and calling good people "un-American" because they see things differently, we will not make things better in time, and our country will suffer for it.

[lacrew_2000]

Racism = Red Herring.

I know the storyline: Obama is black, and these racist whites at the Tea Parties just can't stand it. There is no leadership in the Republican party, they are in disarray, and hate mongerers have taken control. This is not about issues, this is about hatred, etc. etc. I watch the news, I see the storyline just like everybody else....

...but how hard do you have to try to actually beleive that...actually stick your head in the sand and not believe that 1/3 of the country is pissed off (at both parties btw).

BTW, why the heck did the Tea Party endorse Hayworth, in his bid to defeat John McCain...what's racist about that? Maybe they just don't like McCain, no matter his skin tone, or his party affiliation. That's right, the first Tea Party victory may be against a Republican...doesn't fit the storyline very well.

[wellendowed1911]

Originally Posted by john_galt

Entitlements far and away are the biggest draw on our resources and now the interest on the debt is larger than the military budget. So what happens if we cut spending on our military? If you said people die then you win a cupie doll. Not just any people; our sons and daughters, mother and fathers, brothers and sisters. Do you want to explain to people that you saved a million dollars but it cost the lives of their family members?
Back to the original point of the thread; the first TEA party was held when Bush was president back in 2007. I ask myself if I should post the source but I know that those of you who are liberal will say that since it didn't call itself a TEA party then it was not the first. They were protesting spending and Harriet Miers. We were against the spending, the proposed amnesty, and cronies (Miers) in high places. If the main stream media didn't cover it the you have to wonder why they didn't think it was important.
The first protest that called itself a TEA party was in Washington before Obama took office but after the bailout. I guess that means the TEA party is not racially motivated after all. Plus, if some of you have attended a local TEA party you have seen some of the leaders are from a minority group. We even had a group of young Afro Americans manning a both and another group planning a protest of Fred Phelps's church.

Ok thanks for your feedback, but I don't think anyone meant that we should make the Department of Defense the smallest govt department, but when it's a FACT that the U.S spends more money on defense then the next 15 countries combined and currently our biggest threat is Al-queada/Taliban which neither has an airforce/navy/ or sophisticated weaponery don't you think scaling back the defense to reflect our current crisis is not a smart idea? Like I said before in the 80's the Soviets were going toe to toe with us- we had the F-15 they had the Mig fighters- we had the Bradley they had the P{-22 I believe and we out spent the soviets and created far better weapons than they have. The soviets a few months ao just revealed their stealth fighters and critcs say the Soviet stealth to the U.S stealth fighter is like comparing a Rolls Royce to a Hyundai- they are still light years away from mathcing us in terms of advanced technology. However, give me one justified reason why someone in the Obama administration will say we can't cut military spending? Is it because we need to spend billions on more high tech weaponry to stip Al-Queada's and the Taliban IED's and roadside bombs??? If we cut military spending by 1/4 are we all of sudden going to lose our superpower status??? I give a lot of credit for Regan for making the U.S a very formidable SuiperPower, but basically no one- including the Chinese have the advanced weaponry that we have and quite frankly China is still years away from us in the overall military department.
Thanks for the history on the TEA partym but the 64,000 question is what will happen to the economy if the govt cut back like the TEA wants them to. Teachers would lose their jobs, many programs both social and educational. Let's face it the bigger problem is not really the taxes, but the wasteful spending- pork barrell spending, fraud that both DEMS and Republicans are guilty. To have great roads/interstates/ and many other thing we take for granted the GOVT must raise that revenue somehow. I would not be suprised if nearly 1 trillion dollars goes to waste in various departments- I wish there were more checks and balances and whistle blowers in the govt. I give you a prime example, I am a Pharmacist and I have personally seen people come through my drive thru in 40k Escalades and drop off a prescription and hand me a Medicaid card- seen mothers come in with Gucci handbags, designer clothing, etc with Medicaid cards- they way i feel about it-if you are able to afford an escalade and designer club than my tax paying dollars should not be paying for you or your child's medicine.

[kcbigpapa]

Wellendowed, a couple of things about what you said. You are absolutely right that our military budget is not necessary to be successful against Al-Queada. However, we CANNOT ignore other threats just because of our current one. Al-Queada does not have a navy, does this mean we should get rid of ours? We would be shortsighted to ignore the potential enemy of the future. Whether it be North Korea, China (who I don't think is as far behind as we think), Iraq, etc. The military budget needs to stay how it is. I do think a lot of our allies don't spend what they should on their military because they know we will be there to bail them out if necessary. I don't think the Tea Party would be alone in condemning major budgetary cuts to the defense department.

I don't know anything about how defense contractor contracts work, but I would guess it is based on a cost plus basis. We know that many contractors go way over budget on jobs such as the JSF/F-35 fighter jet. I assume they are able to recover any overages from the Pentagon. If so, why? Let's say they bid $4 billion to develop and build the fighter and their costs run to $6 billion, why do we pay any more than the original bid? Again, I know I am assuming this is how it works? Is it because in a cost-plus contract, it is in the best interest of the contractor to increase costs so much as to gain a bigger amount in the long run. So in the above example, if the cost plus % was 10%, the defense contractor increases it's net income by 50%. JG, you may have more insight on this, if so please tell me how it works?

Wellendowed, I understand your frustration about people in designer clothes, Gucci handbags, luxury cars, etc using Medicaid, but you don't really know for sure about ownership or authenticity. Fake designer handbags, sunglasses and even clothes are abundant. The vehicle may not even be theirs. It is best not to cast aspersions on others unless you really know what is going on in their lives.

[dirty dog]

Papa, I was watching the sentate hearings the other day on the F-22 program and the JSF/F-35. The contractors were claiming that a lot of these cost overages were the fault of the defense deparrment mandating changes in design. Now I am not saying this is true, just repeating what I heard.

[lacrew_2000]

Somebody brought up deregulation - a popular buzz word these days.

The Glass-Steagall act was repealled and replaced by the financial services modrnization act:

http://www.ushla.com/financial-servi...act-explained/

It passed the Senate 90-8. Clinton signed it. Alot of people got rich, and then came the bust. Both parties were complicit.

Just something to keep in mind, as some of the same senators who were around in 1999 are now spouting off about 'reforming' the financial system. Sure its necessary - but watch these crooks closely.

I think its this attitude in Washington that congress continually fixes problems by creating new ones, and then finds scapegoats, that puts the fire in the Tea Parties.

[lacrew_2000]

Another Tea Party victory is afoot in Utah. Republican Senator Bob Bennet looks certain to lose his primary. 68 percent of the delegates self identify with the tea party - and they are telling him to hit the road....still waiting for somebody to explain why this is racist.

[wellendowed1911]

Originally Posted by kcbigpapa

Wellendowed, a couple of things about what you said. You are absolutely right that our military budget is not necessary to be successful against Al-Queada. However, we CANNOT ignore other threats just because of our current one. Al-Queada does not have a navy, does this mean we should get rid of ours? We would be shortsighted to ignore the potential enemy of the future. Whether it be North Korea, China (who I don't think is as far behind as we think), Iraq, etc. The military budget needs to stay how it is. I do think a lot of our allies don't spend what they should on their military because they know we will be there to bail them out if necessary. I don't think the Tea Party would be alone in condemning major budgetary cuts to the defense department.

I don't know anything about how defense contractor contracts work, but I would guess it is based on a cost plus basis. We know that many contractors go way over budget on jobs such as the JSF/F-35 fighter jet. I assume they are able to recover any overages from the Pentagon. If so, why? Let's say they bid $4 billion to develop and build the fighter and their costs run to $6 billion, why do we pay any more than the original bid? Again, I know I am assuming this is how it works? Is it because in a cost-plus contract, it is in the best interest of the contractor to increase costs so much as to gain a bigger amount in the long run. So in the above example, if the cost plus % was 10%, the defense contractor increases it's net income by 50%. JG, you may have more insight on this, if so please tell me how it works?

Wellendowed, I understand your frustration about people in designer clothes, Gucci handbags, luxury cars, etc using Medicaid, but you don't really know for sure about ownership or authenticity. Fake designer handbags, sunglasses and even clothes are abundant. The vehicle may not even be theirs. It is best not to cast aspersions on others unless you really know what is going on in their lives.

KC- you may be right on the fact that just because someone drives a nice car doesn't mean it's theirs or the clothing could be knock offs so I will grant you the fact that it could be true.
However, back to the question ion military spending: The U.S spent 608 Billion on defense last year which made up 40.1% of the world share- the number 2 country was China which spent 68 billion. In 2010 we are the lone super power the next country would perhaps be China- I would put China above Russia because China is currently the number 3 largest economy in the world behind the U.S and Japan, but China's economic growth is getting larger each year. Give me one reason why we are spending nearly 9 times as much on military than china which could be a potential threat both militarily and economically? If we cut the budget from 608 billion to let's see 304 Billion we would still be spending nearly 4 times as much on China- so I don't understand the massive spending and why Defense can't be cut slightly. Now on the fip side, the U.S spends billions more than other countries on Education but we don't get bang for th buck in that department- many Asian countries make our education system look primitive, but I think the U.S education system needs an overhaul but that's another story.

[wellendowed1911]

Originally Posted by lacrew_2000

Another Tea Party victory is afoot in Utah. Republican Senator Bob Bennet looks certain to lose his primary. 68 percent of the delegates self identify with the tea party - and they are telling him to hit the road....still waiting for somebody to explain why this is racist.

I still see a different perspective.
. The agenda behind these so-called tea parties has nothing to do with taxes or the constitution or anything other than hate. Obama's policies have not had time to take affect but he is being blamed for some of the things that GWB planted on his way out the door. Some of the things I read and hear from the right wing are preposterous. The McCainanites that I spoke with during the campaign told me some of the dumbest stuff I ever heard of in years. And the surprising part was that they were young people that couldn't make a "D" in history on their best day. They were just going by what someone had heard on fox news or what some other dummy had said. Rhetoric and hate are like guns and ammo for the uneducated. The left wing is just as bad with all their ideals about life and how it should be snuffed or not snuffed. . I think both parties along with all the others, are poor excuses for human beings. There is only right or wrong. There is no grey area when it comes to the truth.

Where were these people for the past 8 years when taxes were cut and federal spending increased with two wars being financed on a credit card.

My favorite sign, "Cut Taxes, Not Defense". Isn't that partially how we got here?

Where are all the black people? Aside from the isolated (2) black protesters, the only other black guy is Obama on their signage. If it weren't for Obama, blacks would be underrepresented in the photographs.

They are all against something, that is what they have in common, can't pin it down to one point.

With most metabolisms, if you eat more than you burn off then you will get fat.
And LaCrew you can continue to deny the obvious all you like. ........and RACISM is dead in America?

What vile and racist language, imagery and action is being supported and wrapped up in the Republican and FIX news propaganda movement called Tea Parties. Their attempt to disguise what is really behind their actions is wide open for all to see and hear in the posters, banners, signs, flags,actions and voices of the particpants.

These are not innocent American protests against big government. These are deliberate attempts to flame up racist sentiment and fervor under the guise of patriotism and anti-big government. If this were truly that, the Tea Parties would have sprung up under the white President big spender Bush. However, in that scenario all of these so called people worried about their children's future were deathly silent.

Any participant in such Tea Parties who did not immediately withdraw themselves from the events when they saw the posters, banners, signs, flags and actions and when they heard the vitriolic language making up the events are perpetuators and supporters by default.

There are no innocent bystanders when it comes to hate and bigotry. Guilt by association is applicable. Remember, you are known by the company you keep.

Shame on anyone who participated in these virile events where such things occurred.

[kcbigpapa]

Originally Posted by wellendowed1911

Give me one reason why we are spending nearly 9 times as much on military than china which could be a potential threat both militarily and economically? If we cut the budget from 608 billion to let's see 304 Billion we would still be spending nearly 4 times as much on China- so I don't understand the massive spending and why Defense can't be cut slightly.

Costs are much more controlled in China. I would have to think that their $68 billion defense budget has to be damn near equal to ours in "bang for the buck". Our soldiers are paid exponentially more than theirs, plus we have to pay for the high costs of defense contractors compared to state run, hence low-cost and no-profit. Plus, if you look at it in relative terms, China spends more on their military as a percentage of its GDP.

GDP Military Spending

[lacrew_2000]

"You just don't get it do you???"

Nope, I'm too dumb to understand why a movement that is threatening to eliminate two old white guys from Republican senate seats is racist because the president happens to be black.

Please educate me.

Here is a graph of spending as a percent of GDP:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_CQyU4ayBif...fed+budget.jpg

See that spike at the end? Gee, thats when the Tea Parties started. You just don't get it do you???

And I thought we already reviewed this: If you keep calling people racists, nobody takes your rants seriously.

[wellendowed1911]

Originally Posted by lacrew_2000

"You just don't get it do you???"

Nope, I'm too dumb to understand why a movement that is threatening to eliminate two old white guys from Republican senate seats is racist because the president happens to be black.

Please educate me.

Here is a graph of spending as a percent of GDP:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_CQyU4ayBif...fed+budget.jpg

See that spike at the end? Gee, thats when the Tea Parties started. You just don't get it do you???

And I thought we already reviewed this: If you keep calling people racists, nobody takes your rants seriously.

LaCrew, I don't think anyone would disagree that spending has been out of control for quite sometimes, but just saying stop spending and such in such must go doesn't fix the problem. Where are the SOLUTIONS??? Where does the TEA PARTY want us to cut taxes??? The last Democratic President left us with a surplus- the next Republican President left us with 2 wars - a trillion dolar defecit , a collasped economy and the biggest expansion of government in decades. You stated that the first TEA party started in 2007, but no one but you have any fond memories of it No one is seeing any solutions by the TEA party- just rallies filled with hate and supporters telling what politicians need to go. If you think the TEA party is some major force that politicians need to be afraid of than we will never agree on anything. I agree that everyone has a voice and they have a right to complain about any issue- heck I don't like all the taxes I pay, but I do realize that to have better programs and create jobs the govt has to raise that revenue. I think the bigger issue in Washington is govt waste and all the beaureacy that goes on by both Dems and Republicans. I really think a lot of these candidates that are pro Tea party are using the Tea party for political reasons- especially Sarah Palin.

[wellendowed1911]

Originally Posted by lacrew_2000

"You just don't get it do you???"

Nope, I'm too dumb to understand why a movement that is threatening to eliminate two old white guys from Republican senate seats is racist because the president happens to be black.

Please educate me.

Here is a graph of spending as a percent of GDP:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_CQyU4ayBif...fed+budget.jpg

See that spike at the end? Gee, thats when the Tea Parties started. You just don't get it do you???

And I thought we already reviewed this: If you keep calling people racists, nobody takes your rants seriously.

By the way LaCrew when did I call YOU or anyone else in this forum racist?? I have said that I believe many people who show up at TEA party rallies with racist Obama signs well are RACIST. I guess you took the eday off when there were several reports of TEA party protesters calling several AA politicans the "N" word and even some getting spit on. Did you hear about bricks getting thrown through windows? How about Voice mails with Death Threats??? So not only are they racist they encourage violence because others don't agree with their viewpoints. I assure you had McCain won- I would not have been making disgusting remarks to anyone and I am pretty sure there would been tons of McCain policies I would not have supported but i would not have called for Mccain to be killed or prayed for his death likensome idiots have been doing around this country at Obama.

[dirty dog]

Yes, yes, yes there a racisit group with nothing but hatred in their hearts, out to get that big evil black man. Jesus christ almightly strike down the devil growd before they can bring forth their evil on the world. Now that I am done with that I guess I am going to listen to some words from some great men who preach the blessings of racial harmony. I mean does anyone say racial unity like Farrakhan and the Rev. Wright. They must represent the viewpoints of the blackman as a culture, in just the same way a few idiots at the Tea party events must represent the group as a whole. Don't bother responding because I am done responding to you. You have managed to turn every discussion into a discussion of race and it has grown tiresome.

[lacrew_2000]

"I guess you took the eday off when there were several reports of TEA party protesters calling several AA politicans the "N" word and even some getting spit on."

This has been debunked. Here is video of the congressmen making their walk. No spitting. No N word:

http://vodpod.com/watch/3276968-cong...ucus-3-20-2010

One radio personality has offered $100,000 to charity, if anyone actually comes up with audio or video of the spitting or n word. Nothin yet.

So, what happened? These congressmen deliberately chose to walk through the crowd rather than the usual tunnel connection...to stir up the crowd. They then shouted 'racist', knowing that millions of shallow minded people would believe them without question....but they lied. Get it? They are race hucksters...and you have been conned.

We started out having a fairly decent discussion about the Tea Party...and then, here we go again, racism was brought into the argument. Sad.