2011 NFL Football

[bbkid]

Originally Posted by Satin

Bbkid....I see you feel the same way about football that I feel about baseball..lol. The only sport I could care less about ..

Oh, I know bro. There are alot of people who don't care for my sport. That's okay though. It is what it is.

[Jusanotherdude]

Originally Posted by Rambro Creed

Doesn't matter how much 'knowlegde' you drop, saying that he got what he got because of the OL he had, and that he wouldn't have done it behind a 'lesser' OL, and that other RBs would've gotten a bazillion yards behind that OL, is PURE SPECULATION. The reason all that is pure speculation because it CANNOT be proven. Just accept the fact that Emmitt is the greatest ever and call it a day.

Seriously bruh..... you're not reading shit I'm saying are you?!? When did I EVER call Emmitt ANYTHING but a GREAT RB?!? And I don't even like the guy! He got what he got in LARGE part because he was GREAT..... but he got SOME of it in part because of the team around him too..... Emmitt is the most prolific runner in NFL history.... that's all you get from me..... was he the greatest ever? Not quite. In football you HAVE to take into account the team around the man when trying to compare him to his piers.... that's part of it, and you are right it IS pure speculation....... but that does not make it untrue either...... be a rational guy and read what I am saying.... don't be an idiot fucking myopic Cowboy fan......


JaD

[Satin]

....and with that blast, JAD gets another 10 from all 5 judges...lol

[carkido45]

What kinda OL did Earl Campbell have?... not much

[Randall Creed]

Originally Posted by Jusanotherdude

Seriously bruh..... you're not reading shit I'm saying are you?!? When did I EVER call Emmitt ANYTHING but a GREAT RB?!? And I don't even like the guy! He got what he got in LARGE part because he was GREAT..... but he got SOME of it in part because of the team around him too..... Emmitt is the most prolific runner in NFL history.... that's all you get from me..... was he the greatest ever? Not quite. In football you HAVE to take into account the team around the man when trying to compare him to his piers.... that's part of it, and you are right it IS pure speculation....... but that does not make it untrue either...... be a rational guy and read what I am saying.... don't be an idiot fucking myopic Cowboy fan......


JaD

Namecalling.
:Tsk:

Must be a sign of surrender.

Dude, if you're going to use the 'great teammates' argument, then you've got a lot of historical rewriting to do. You'll practically run out of asterisks. Not just football, but all team sports. Great TEAMS win championships. If they didn't, all you'd have a lot of ambiguous champions in every sport. Bird, Magic, Montana, Rice, Bart Starr, Bradshaw, all had hall of famer teammates. Those like you seem to go way out of your way to lessen the accomplishments of Emmitt. In the process of doing this, you're degrading and undermining what it takes to become a champion in a team sport. One guy NEVER wins a team championship. Never. Not even Jordan could do it. Or Wilt. or even Babe Ruth or Mickey Mantle.

Since he's not the greatest, tell me what DOES it take to be the greatest?

These arguments against Emmitt Smith are so hollow it's not even funny.

This shit gets boring.

[chadmo40]

Call me crazy but I'm a Texans AND Cowboys fan lol!!

They both need help in the secondary, so Nnamdi would be great for either!
Maybe Prince Amukamara for either as well?
Cowboys need OL, maybe Tyron Smith from USC
Texans need pass rushers, maybe Robert Quinn or Aldon Smith?

[cockstrong]

im a Texans fan but im sure they will fuck off their draft picks like they have every year i.e. David Carr, Bennie Joppru, Travis Johnson, Amobi Okoye, Steve Slaton, Kareem Jackson and all the late round picks i cant think of who either never turned out to be shit or went to another team and ended up starting, making the pro bowl and winning super bowl rings. what do the Texans need?? a new organization!! new owner, gm, vp player personnel, head coach, coordinators, position coaches, equipment managers, ball boys, and public address announcer!!! (i cant stand when that tool says "good for a houston texaaaaaaans!!! 'first down' ") that shit is lamer than a high school team running through a banner that has a velcro strip down the middle to hold it together. (get a real banner made out of paper that u can actually rip apart when u run through it!!) so who the Texans should draft is really not worth discussing cause they will either take someone in the first round that is projected to go in the 5th round by the experts and we will have to hear kubiak talk about how "he was a great find" "we're glad we were able to land him" or they will take someone at a position that they are already stacked at like another fucking tight end!! as far as free agency they wont make any moves cuz bob mcnair is a fucking tight ass who doesnt care about winning as long as every game keeps selling out and 100,000 people show up to tailgate every week.

anyways great thread however it does make me sad cause im sitting here thinking about how when the NBA playoffs are over in a month or so there wont be any (worth watching) sports on t.v. until the preseason starts in august, that is if the collective bargaining stuff is worked out and there actually is a preseason. No offense BBkid, i like going 2 minute maid and ive been to (the old) yankee stadium, fenway, safeco, and a couple other big league parks but im not gonna go to minute maid 2 watch the stros lose by 8 runs every night and i will just fall asleep if i watch a game on tv. just my .02

[Jusanotherdude]

Originally Posted by Rambro Creed

Namecalling.
:Tsk:

Must be a sign of surrender.

No name calling..... just asking you to be open minded and not myopic..... Appologies if you felt I was taking a shot at you, as I was not......

Originally Posted by Rambro Creed

Dude, if you're going to use the 'great teammates' argument, then you've got a lot of historical rewriting to do. You'll practically run out of asterisks. Not just football, but all team sports. Great TEAMS win championships. If they didn't, all you'd have a lot of ambiguous champions in every sport. Bird, Magic, Montana, Rice, Bart Starr, Bradshaw, all had hall of famer teammates.

Here you go! I actually like the fact that you brought this up...... you are right..... and wrong a bit...... but you have a lot of very good points here........ Football much moreso than baseball is much more of a TEAM sport.... .in baseball, when it comes to the statistical catagories (most anyway) you are essentially on an island where you and you alone are the generator of your own statistics (again for the most part that is)...... Babe Ruth, Mickey Mantle, Lou Gehrig, Joe DiMaggio, etc.... have their statistical acomplishments that are derived from 98% of what they did soley by themselves.... having great teamates aided in winning championships, but had a MUCH smaller impact on what they did as individuals....... Football is just different in that matter...... I will present you first with Terry Bradshaw...... Winner of 4 Superbowls and is a Hall of Fame QB....... but in his early days he was nearly run out of town because of his terrible play and thoughts of him being an idiot..... but you throw a Hall of fame offensive line, RB and 2 HoF WRs and all of the sudden he is a hall of famer....... a place where a good QB looks great, but I'm sure we can all argue that if you put Archie Mannining in that situation you could probably easily keep those 4 superbowl victories and argue another 1 or 2 right? (that is NOT a direct parallel to the Emmitt argument, just some food for thought)

Originally Posted by Rambro Creed

Those like you seem to go way out of your way to lessen the accomplishments of Emmitt. In the process of doing this, you're degrading and undermining what it takes to become a champion in a team sport.

I will never argue that Emmitt is a champion and will choke your ass out to win, and is without question the very definition of what it takes to be a champion...... but.......How in the world did I ever lessen his accomplishments?!?! Because I won't call him the "Greatest of all Time"?!? I have been touting how great he was this entire thread.....

Originally Posted by Jusanotherdude

Emmitt was a GREAT back! No denying it. To find a guy who was just fucking solid across the board as he was is hard to find (Running, catching the ball out of the backfield and one of the best blockers ever from a superstar position) and the fact that he had a Gehrig type career of fucking lacing them up and tottin the rock 25+ times a game says he was a tough fucker......

Originally Posted by Jusanotherdude

Emmitt was a great Running back on an all time great team..... If you want to tell me how valuable he was to that team, I will absolutely agree with you (see the year he held out), and he was beat to hell because he carried the ball 300 times a year, and at some point he was getting tackled by big dudes... Great RB But IMHO not the greatest of all time by a bit......

And all that is from a guy who DOES NOT LIKE EMMITT!! But I am a rational guy who has eyes..... and to call him anything other than great is just wrong........ but I hold steadfast on my OPINION that his is not the greatest of all time..... Just like I don't think Brett Favre is the greatest QB of all time just because he holds all of the records........ There is more than that.....

Originally Posted by Rambro Creed

Since he's not the greatest, tell me what DOES it take to be the greatest?

There in lies the great debate about sports! It is so highly subjective that everyone has their very own definitions of this........ Watching some of these other backs and what they did with who they did it says alot to me..... Was Emmitt better than Barry, or did he simply outlast him? If the rolls were reversed, would Barry have played longer? And if Emmitt had to play for the shitty Lions would he have stayed around as many years? Lets be honest.... playing for a winner is MUCH easier than playing for a loser, and Emmitt played for winners much more than he did losers, and the opposite is true for Barry....... I go back to my earlier statement that in MY OPINION there is nobody better than Jim Brown, and the gap is so vast between him and everyone else its not even funny......

Originally Posted by Rambro Creed

These arguments against Emmitt Smith are so hollow it's not even funny.

This shit gets boring.

Its funny how you say that..... but I don't think you have the ability to look past anyone who argues against Emmitt, yet you never directly address each argument, and the one time you did you were wrong......... I emplore you to re-read some of these posts and rationally, and logically read and try to understand the arguments and you will see that there is doubt..... doesn't mean you are wrong in what you believe...... but it doesn't mean we are all wrong either........ we can agree to disagree..... you can say Emmitt, and I will continue to respectfully disagree but I understand how you would feel that way....... all I'm asking is that you open your mind enough to see and aknowledge the other side....... I'm all for Rational debates (obviously) but if you're not gonna bring anything tangable to argue the other side then its not really a debate is it?


JaD

[Jusanotherdude]

Originally Posted by cockstrong

im a Texans fan but im sure they will fuck off their draft picks like they have every year i.e. David Carr, Bennie Joppru, Travis Johnson, Amobi Okoye, Steve Slaton, Kareem Jackson and all the late round picks i cant think of who either never turned out to be shit or went to another team and ended up starting, making the pro bowl and winning super bowl rings. what do the Texans need?? a new organization!! new owner, gm, vp player personnel, head coach, coordinators, position coaches, equipment managers, ball boys, and public address announcer!!! (i cant stand when that tool says "good for a houston texaaaaaaans!!! 'first down' ") that shit is lamer than a high school team running through a banner that has a velcro strip down the middle to hold it together.

Oh man! So much truth in this......... The problem is that the Texans have a 1st time GM who is anti-social so he misses out on all the little shit that scouts, other GMs, and coaches talk about when talking about these guys coming out in the draft..... that and a combination of them drafting too much on NEED early that it clouds their veiw of drafting the best player on the board like all other great organizations do...... They got lucky with Duane Brown in that his work ethic is fucking great, and the jury is still out on Cushing (PED's or not)..... Ask DeD when the last time the Steelers drafted a NEED guy...... MAYBE you could say Big Ben was a need when they drafted him, but they had a pro-bowl QB when they did..... but other than that they draft the best football player on the board when it is their pick..... for some reason teams like the Texans just can't see their way past being able to do that........ GREAT draft website is: http://thesidelineview.com/ by a couple of guys from here in Houston that have no vested interest in the Texans other than wanting to see them do well...... But very informative nontheless.....

It is always fun to watch the Raiders shit the bed in the draft (although they disappointed last year and drafted a really good football player by accident no doubt) and to watch the Pats use all 57 of their draft picks to trade up and down the board to end up with the same number of picks and half of them worthless. What is more interesting is that many more teams will be following the Texans theme of "Draft Positions of Need" because of nobody getting any holes filled via free agency before the draft...... I forsee a ton of teams shooting them selves straight in the foot, and some others making out like complete bandits!!! Scary for most..... mouth watering for others.... I'm looking at your Steelers here DeD!

Anyway, a week away and it should be fun as hell to watch the madness...... Not sure how I feel about them stretching it out over 3 days still, but love the prime time love!

I really need to stop posting on this thread! BBKid..... start a baseball thread so I can rant on that one instead!


JaD

[DickEmDown]

I only have two things to say cuz I'm not as long winded as my boy JaD...

1. Creed, JaD is killin' you man with the counter points ...I always thought Barry was leaps and bounds better than Emmitt, although Emmitt is still a great back. No one can lead the league in all time rushing yards and not be good. I just feel if Barry played longer Emmitt wouldn't have that title

2. I feel ya JaD on my Steelers but if there is one team that I admire for their off season moves, and it PAINS me to say this....it's the Mutha Fuckin' Patriots!!!

They are a good team, a young team, and they always seem to have the MOST draft picks EVERY damn year

[gnadfly]

Originally Posted by cockstrong

i cant stand when that tool says "good for a houston texaaaaaaans!!! 'first down' " that shit is lamer than a high school team running through a banner that has a velcro strip down the middle to hold it together.

Truer words, Truer words! What's even lamer is the crowd yelling "First Down" like Pavlov's Dogs.

Going to game is just a pure social event. Just so many people at the Bloody Mary Bar catching a glimpse of the game on the TV when its playing live 100 ft away...people yelling "Oh Shit. Not Again." and leaving before the fourth quarter.

If we go to the playoffs, I don't know how much of the fan base would really notice.

[Randall Creed]

Jim Brown played in an era where guys were shitty tacklers, played football for a hobby after working all week at their 'day job', was HALF THE SIZE of Brown himself, and hell, just weren't athletic. He was a 'man among boys' because he was the biggest player on the field. Browns' highlights shows him running through GAPING HOLES, running through horribly angled arm tackles, and playing against guys who would have trouble making the CURRENT Cleveland roster (even using a modern adjustment scale). I mean, you make it sound like Brown and Sanders played against 17 defenders while Smith only faced 8. Just saying.

Like the OP said, Emmitt Smith is the leading rusher everywhere he plays. What's so hard to understand about that. You discredit his greatness when you attribute it to HIS TEAMMATES. You do this WITHOUT DOING IT TO OTHER PLAYERS. Reread your own posts. That's EXACTLY what you did.

Oh, but come on back, flip and bounce your words in a way that will impress those like DED, and make yourself feel good forrrr making yourself feel good. Dunno what to tell you. Emmitt rules, and it is what it is.

[Randall Creed]

Originally Posted by DickEmDown

I only have two things to say cuz I'm not as long winded as my boy JaD...

1. Creed, JaD is killin' you man with the counter points ...I always thought Barry was leaps and bounds better than Emmitt, although Emmitt is still a great back. No one can lead the league in all time rushing yards and not be good. I just feel if Barry played longer Emmitt wouldn't have that title

2. I feel ya JaD on my Steelers but if there is one team that I admire for their off season moves, and it PAINS me to say this....it's the Mutha Fuckin' Patriots!!!

They are a good team, a young team, and they always seem to have the MOST draft picks EVERY damn year

1. Whatever. Yeah, and if, if, if. Maybe if Barry didn't lose yards every other carry (many times his own undoing) he would've had a better career, one that wasn't just hollow yards and fancy breakdance moves. Also, feel free to check the books. Lomas Brown was a Pro Bowl blocker in Detroit. Herman Moore was a Pro Bowl WR playing with Sanders. Saying the Lions had no talent is just.......inaccurate. Around 90-91, they were on the same par with Dallas. Hell, they beat the Cowboys in the 91 playoffs. It's not Dallas' fault the Lions didn't maintain. Again, you and your running mate there are deducting from Smiths' success because of who he played with. If you're going to do that tp him, you have to do it for every great player.

2. The Patriots treat the Steelers like redheaded stepchildren. In Pittsburgh's defense, New England treats everyone like that.

[Jusanotherdude]

Originally Posted by Rambro Creed

Jim Brown.... He was a 'man among boys' .

Well... You said it..... THAT I can't disagree with...... Again.... he was playing against professionals and was clearly the best athlete on the field.... and not just because he was bigger..... there were plenty bigger, some faster, NONE better. That's the point.

Originally Posted by Rambro Creed

Like the OP said, Emmitt Smith is the leading rusher everywhere he plays. What's so hard to understand about that. You discredit his greatness when you attribute it to HIS TEAMMATES. You do this WITHOUT DOING IT TO OTHER PLAYERS. Reread your own posts. That's EXACTLY what you did.

I have re-read them...... but did you ever bother to fully read them to begin with? If you did you didn't do a very good job of paying attention...... I knocked PLENTY of others, and AGAIN have been trumpeting how great Emmitt was....... read again please.... you're missing a lot of good stuff....... and you are just wrong on your statement there....... But I'll throw out what I have been saying the whole time too..... it is all subjective..... that is what makes great debats about this sport and its history if you can bring some ammo to the discussion.......

Originally Posted by Rambro Creed

Oh, but come on back, flip and bounce your words in a way that will impress those like DED, and make yourself feel good forrrr making yourself feel good. Dunno what to tell you. Emmitt rules, and it is what it is.

I guess I just gave you too much credit...... I have argued logically and presented a bevy of valid points and counter points to which you have addressed none..... but I guess the old "I'm right, you're wrong get over it." makes you the winner........

That old phrase now comes to mind.......

I have all the information I need here. I am done.


JaD

[gnadfly]

...and with the 9th overall pick of the 2011 NFL draft the Dallas Cowboys take offensive tackle Tyron Smith from USC.

Jerry must finally be taking my SHMB posts to heart.