Would A Gun Have Helped This Couple?

[JD Barleycorn]

Moron! Where does it say that I said liberals don't own guns? It doesn't. In fact I responded the other day with a short list of liberals who do own guns or have armed bodyguards. Get your facts straight.

You can't tell the difference between policy and fact.

[SpeedRacerXXX]

Originally Posted by I B Hankering

The U.S. also leads industrialized nations in the number of auto related deaths.

That's ironic. It's a point I've made several times over the years to gun owners. If you REALLY want to do something that statistically has more of a chance of saving your life than owning a firearm:

1. Don't drive a car
2. Don't ride a motorcycle, especially without a helmet
3. Don't drink
4. Don't smoke
5. Eat a healthy diet
6. Exercise, especially aerobically

I follow 2, 4, 5 and 6. I also do not consider myself a person who drinks enough to cause damage to myself.

[SpeedRacerXXX]

Originally Posted by JD Barleycorn

[ Pick up John Lott's book and then explain why the declining murder rate is dropping the same time that gun ownership is rising and it is almost uniform that every state has some sort of concealed carry law. Chicago still has a defacto ban though political intervention and south Chicago is more dangerous than Afghanistan.

As I stated in a separate thread, whether or not gun ownership is rising in the U.S. depends on which piece of information you want to believe. Here are several sources of information from reliable sources that dispute your claim.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013...-dramatically/

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/10/us...vey-shows.html

http://www.people-press.org/2013/03/...-demographics/

http://rt.com/usa/gun-ownership-decline-us-111/

http://www.futurity.org/shooting-dea...es-gun-owners/

[I B Hankering]

Originally Posted by SpeedRacerXXX

That's ironic. It's a point I've made several times over the years to gun owners. If you REALLY want to do something that statistically has more of a chance of saving your life than owning a firearm:

1. Don't drive a car
2. Don't ride a motorcycle, especially without a helmet
3. Don't drink
4. Don't smoke
5. Eat a healthy diet
6. Exercise, especially aerobically

Coming from you, that's just pure sarcasm, Speedy. Surrendering "life, liberty and pursuit of happiness" is not an option. BTW, noticed how you edited the post and then altogether ignored what impact an ethnically diverse population might have on the statistics gun-grabbing lib-retards so like to cite.

[SpeedRacerXXX]

Originally Posted by I B Hankering

Coming from you, that's just pure sarcasm, Speedy. Surrendering "life, liberty and pursuit of happiness" is not an option. BTW, noticed how you edited the post and then altogether ignored what impact an ethnically diverse population might have on the statistics gun-grabbing lib-retards so like to cite.

First, I did not ignore your statement about how an ethnically diverse population might impact any statistics because I try to avoid racist implications. There is absolutely nothing you can do about it even if there was a 100% correlation between race and homicides or other violent crimes.

Surrendering "life, liberty and pursuit of happiness"? What does that have to do with gun ownership? I do not own a gun and have not surrendered anything. And I am not trying to take your guns. I could care less if you have enough firepower in your possession to stop a small army. As long as what you are doing is legal, I support your right to do so. I think that's the #1 problem with gun owners such as yourself. Just because people like me choose to not own a gun for whatever reason you believe that we are against others owning guns for whatever reason.

[JD Barleycorn]

Funny thing, if something is real then it cannot be seriously refuted. I'll go with the FBI Crime Stats and a good understanding of what they mean by violent, murder, and death. Unlike your statistics from UK and Australia which play with those terms so they don't scare away tourists.

Yes, you did quote their stats because you used another source that quotes them.

[i'va biggen]

Originally Posted by JD Barleycorn

Moron! Where does it say that I said liberals don't own guns? It doesn't. In fact I responded the other day with a short list of liberals who do own guns or have armed bodyguards. Get your facts straight.

You can't tell the difference between policy and fact.

Moron

[I B Hankering]

Originally Posted by SpeedRacerXXX

First, I did not ignore your statement about how an ethnically diverse population might impact any statistics because I try to avoid racist implications. There is absolutely nothing you can do about it even if there was a 100% correlation between race and homicides or other violent crimes. Recognize it. Talk about it, and recognize that law abiding citizens are not the problem.

Surrendering "life, liberty and pursuit of happiness"? What does that have to do with gun ownership? Perhaps you forgot the rest of your list of suggestions, Speedy:

I do not own a gun and have not surrendered anything. And I am not trying to take your guns. I could care less if you have enough firepower in your possession to stop a small army. As long as what you are doing is legal, I support your right to do so. I think that's the #1 problem with gun owners such as yourself. Just because people like me choose to not own a gun for whatever reason you believe that we are against others owning guns for whatever reason.

.

[CJ7]

Originally Posted by JD Barleycorn

Funny thing, if something is real then it cannot be seriously refuted. I'll go with the FBI Crime Stats and a good understanding of what they mean by violent, murder, and death. Unlike your statistics from UK and Australia which play with those terms so they don't scare away tourists.

Yes, you did quote their stats because you used another source that quotes them.

waiting for you to quote official FBI stats

[SpeedRacerXXX]

I'll ask you the same research question that was asked a few years ago; you have 20 people in an isolated location away from any outside assistance. This 20 have been randomly drawn from society. They could be doctors or criminals, nuns or murderers, farmers or rapists and you don't know. You are given a choice, does everyone get a weapon or will only one weapon be given to someone randomly? Remember the claim, fewer guns means less crime....or does it?

I would give the gun to one person and take my chances. If you give guns to everyone, the killer will definitely have one and if wanting to, will kill at least a handful of the others before one of the others kills him. What killer? You missed the point completely. You don't even know if there is a killer or not. All you know is that everyone is equal when all are armed.
And you totally missed comprehending my response. My opinion is that arming everyone will not stop crime.

I don't know if fewer guns means less crime. New York City has very strict gun ownership laws, low gun ownership, and a very low crime rate per capita when compared to other U.S. cities. What I do know is that the U.S. has more firearms per capita among industrialized nations and by far leads those nations in homicides by firearms. Better do some fact checking. Now NYC has less crime because of aggressive law enforcement and more legally owned guns than 30 years ago. Also the USA is NOT number one per capita in gun deaths and it is NOT the highest in actual deaths. Australia, since their "ban" on guns has been imposed has seen a rising violent crime rate. Down under has experienced one good year (2011) with a decrease in both murder and violent deaths. This comes after seven years of increasing violence.

The strict gun control laws give police the ability to remove illegal guns from the streets. Less guns have led to less crime.

I can't find any information on actual legal gun ownership in NYC. What I do know if that getting a license to own a gun in NYC is difficult. If you can find any information to support your claim that gun ownership is increasing in NYC I'd like to see it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ted_death_rate Your own source puts the US death rate (by firearm) at 10.3 per 100K. That is below South Africa, Swaziland, Jamaica, Uruguay, Panama, Mexico, Honduras, Guatemala, El Salvador, Columbia, and Brazil. So we are number 12 in the world and countries with gun bans have higher murder rates.

I NEVER said the U.S. is number one per capita in gun deaths. We are not even close. What I said is that among INDUSTRIALIZED nations we are far and away #1. Such countries would be Canada, Australia, Western Europe, Scandinavia, U.K., Ireland, Japan, Taiwan. Don't compare apples and oranges.

As for Australia -- .13 firearm related deaths per 100,000 compared to 3.6 in the U.S. And the following disagree with your statements:

http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2013/s3694783.htm
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/dec/14/america-mass-murder-australia-gun-control-saves-lives

[SpeedRacerXXX]

First, I did not ignore your statement about how an ethnically diverse population might impact any statistics because I try to avoid racist implications. There is absolutely nothing you can do about it even if there was a 100% correlation between race and homicides or other violent crimes. Recognize it. Talk about it, and recognize that law abiding citizens are not the problem.

You do realize that the many of homicides in the U.S. are done by people who up until that point were "law abiding citizens". Might even be the majority. I tried to find relevant statistics on this but was unable to find much. Virginia Tech. Newtown. Ft. Hood. Columbine. Washington Naval Yard. All the killers in these incidents were "law abiding citizens". Statistics that are available show that most homicides are by friends, acquaintences, family members, spouses, or other people that you know. Again, "law abiding citizens" until they became killers.

Surrendering "life, liberty and pursuit of happiness"? What does that have to do with gun ownership? Perhaps you forgot the rest of your list of suggestions, Speedy:

You are totally missing the intent of my suggestions. Do them or don't do them. I am simply pointing out that there are MANY other factors that will in all probability do more to increase the length of your life than owning a gun. I ride a bicycle on main roads. Just yesterday a man close to here was killed riding his bike to work. I accept that risk and if others decide to do things that may shorten their life I am not telling them to not do so.

Quote:
1. Don't drive a car
2. Don't ride a motorcycle, especially without a helmet
3. Don't drink
4. Don't smoke

[Doove]

1) If someone's intent is to kill me, they're going to do it before giving me a chance to defend myself.

2)If someone doesn't have the intent of killing me, they're sure as shit gonna get it if they come to the conclusion that i might have a gun and will then likely be willing to kill them.

3)I ain't risking #2, giving someone the motivation to kill me, simply to prevent them from stealing my car keys.

[timpage]

Originally Posted by JD Barleycorn

Don't play into the hands of the idiots. Having a gun is not the only thing. It is the hoodlums knowing that the average law abiding citizen is packing heat and is allowed to shoot a carjacker during the commission of a crime. Everytime the carjacker goes out he (or she) is taking their lives into their hands. How much does anyone want to bet that this mall was a gun free zone?

Yes, I am certain that in the bizarre fantasy world that you live in, carjackers and other felons intent on committing crime spend their free time contemplating which victims might or might not be armed. I also bet they plan their crimes based on whether the locales where they choose to commit their crimes are or are not a "crime-free zone."

Do you have any idea what an incredible fucking idiot you are?

[timpage]

Originally Posted by JD Barleycorn

Funny thing, if something is real then it cannot be seriously refuted. I'll go with the FBI Crime Stats and a good understanding of what they mean by violent, murder, and death. Unlike your statistics from UK and Australia which play with those terms so they don't scare away tourists.

Yes, you did quote their stats because you used another source that quotes them.

This is incredibly profound. Professor, I have misjudged you.

"Funny thing, if something is real then it cannot be seriously refuted."

All of us are waiting for more deeply intellectual statements like this one from you. Please,,,,,

More evidence you are a dunce.

[JD Barleycorn]

By the way, I was doing a regression analysis the other day and I found a .53 correlation between high violent crime and racial demographics. Yes, the initial analysis showed that the more black people in your city, the more crime.

Now is that causal? That takes more research on things like single parenthood, drop out rates, poverty, drug usage, and so many other independent variables to get a good answer. Not that Timmie would understand.