China Takes a Page from America, Sanctions US Defense Firms and Principals Over Arms Sales to Taiwan

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by RX792P

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...t-carrier.html

Exactly

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/mili...efence-experts

[pxmcc]

Originally Posted by RX792P

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...t-carrier.html

ok, so war games prove that we are no match for China in a battle over Taiwan. i accept that premise, with the exception of our subs, which, imo, would give us a narrow but hard fought and costly victory.

what about a new model of how to fight that war. China directly threatens Taiwan, Japan, the Philippines, Vietnam, Malaysia, Brunei, Indonesia, Bhutan, Nepal, and India, and indirectly threatens South Korea and Australia. all those countries could wait for war to show up on their shores or land, but which of them has the slightest chance one on one versus China? none, not even Japan. but if all those countries, plus the U.S., fought as a single unit, knowing that China is going to come for them eventually one way or another, they would be more than a match for China.

take a look at the world military rankings of the 2 sides: China is ranked at 3, but i don't buy that, let's say #2 just a hair behind the U.S., versus, potentially:

U.S. at #1
India #4
S. Korea #5
Japan #8
Indonesia #13
Australia #18
Taiwan #22
Vietnam #23
Philippines #41
Malaysia #42

and potentially,
UK #6
France #7
Germany #14

what chance would China, allied potentially with North Korea at #34-Russia is too bogged down in Ukraine-have against such an alliance? none.

the goal is to prevent war. how do you do that? by making it clear to China that they will lose. how do you do that? by explicitly forming a defensive alliance, a western Pacific version of NATO. then you invite as many NATO allies as are willing to join-Britain, France, Germany, etc. now you have an international allied armada that China has no chance against. China will huff and puff but at the end of the day, they can't and won't do a damn thing, because they won't start a war they know they will lose. they want to take Taiwan without breaking a sweat.

the way you show that resolve is with multi-nation naval exercises in the Taiwan Strait, and on the east coast of Taiwan. that way China gets the memo: you come for Taiwan, this is what you will face. certain defeat..

we can't afford to lose Taiwan to the Chinese. the consequences will be catastrophic. but there is no time to lose.

we have a job for the Trump Admin and Marco Rubio to assemble such an alliance. will they do it? with Trump's current irrational obsession with Venezuela, who knows..

edit: TWK, i said war games prove this. i don't think war games are entirely accurate. i specifically stated that with our subs, i predict we win in a costly 1-on-1. the better question is, how do we prevent China from attacking in the first place. to guarantee certain defeat..

[The_Waco_Kid]

Originally Posted by pxmcc

ok, so war games prove that we are no match for China in a battle over Taiwan. i accept that premise, with the exception of our subs, which, imo, would give us a narrow but hard fought and costly victory.

what about a new model of how to fight that war. China directly threatens Taiwan, Japan, the Philippines, Vietnam, Malaysia, Brunei, Indonesia, Bhutan, Nepal, and India, and indirectly threatens South Korea and Australia. all those countries could wait for war to show up on their shores or land, but which of them has the slightest chance one on one versus China? none, not even Japan. but if all those countries, plus the U.S., fought as a single unit, knowing that China is going to come for them eventually one way or another, they would be more than a match for China.

the goal is to prevent war. how do you do that? by making it clear to China that they will lose. how do you do that? by explicitly forming a defensive alliance, a western Pacific version of NATO. then you invite as many NATO allies as are willing to join-Britain, France, Germany, etc. now you have an international allied armada that China has no chance against. China will huff and puff but at the end of the day, they can't and won't do a damn thing, because they won't start a war they know they will lose. they want to take Taiwan without breaking a sweat.

the way you show that resolve is with multi-nation naval exercises in the Taiwan Strait, and on the east coast of Taiwan. that way China gets the memo: you come for Taiwan, this is what you will face. certain defeat..

we can't afford to lose Taiwan to the Chinese. the consequences will be catastrophic. but there is no time to lose.

it proves no such thing. chinese hypersonic weapons are unproven in battle and the Russian's failed tests and actual losses in Ukraine prove these aren't the "super weapons" Russia and China want the west to think they are.



Yes, Ukraine has successfully shot down Russian hypersonic missiles, specifically the Kinzhal (Dagger), using U.S.-supplied Patriot missile systems, marking a significant moment in air defense against Russia's touted "unstoppable" weapons, though Russia initially downplayed these events, claiming hits on the Patriots themselves. These intercepts, starting in May 2023, proved that advanced Western defenses could counter Russia's claims and have continued, demonstrating the evolving "cat-and-mouse" game of hypersonic defense, as seen in multiple intercepts over Kyiv.





there is no certain outcome for a conflict over Taiwan by either side.


Taiwan has been occupied/annexed by many nations not just China. Japan, the Spanish and the Dutch East India company to name a few.


None ever established a lasting presence and claim to Taiwan



the only true claim to Taiwan was by Chiang Kai-shek and the nationalists after he fled mainland China when he lost to Mao and the communists.



China wants Taiwan for two reasons .. one is vainglorious to end the "war that never ended" with the Nationalists and because Taiwan became a prosperous high tech producer.

[pxmcc]

the latest from Trump worries me (from Politico):

"Trump told reporters this week that he was not informed of the military exercise in advance but brushed off concerns because China has been 'doing naval exercises for 20 years in that area.'

'Nothing worries me,' he said."

gee, and why is China doing those naval exercises, which included encircling the entire island, and modeling blockades of key ports..

Taiwan's importance:

Taiwan's greatest technology is its world-leading semiconductor manufacturing, particularly advanced chip production by companies like TSMC (Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company), which produces the vast majority of the world's most advanced chips, making Taiwan central to the global tech supply chain for AI, smartphones, and more. Beyond chips, Taiwan excels in ICT (Information and Communications Technology), producing high-quality electronics, and is rapidly expanding into AI applications, quantum computing, and smart manufacturing, supported by strong R&D and industry-academia collaboration.

Semiconductors: The Core Strength

Dominance: Taiwan manufactures over 90% of the world's most advanced semiconductors and holds a huge share of the global foundry market.

Economic Pillar: Companies like TSMC are crucial, pioneering the pure-play foundry model and driving innovation in chip miniaturization, essential for modern devices.

Geopolitical Importance: This dominance makes Taiwan a "Silicon Shield," vital for global economic stability and a key factor in international tech competition.

if China takes Taiwan, it will be a huge blow to the U.S.'s and western interests.

China has never governed Taiwan. they have no more right to it than we would.

[The_Waco_Kid]

Originally Posted by pxmcc

if China takes Taiwan, it will be a huge blow to the U.S.'s and western interests.

China has never governed Taiwan. they have no more right to it than we would.

exactly! so the US takes Taiwan as it's own and fuck China!


a brilliant plan!


TWK approves!


bahahahahahaaaa

[pxmcc]

^^Taiwan, right after Venezuela, Greenland, and Canada, right..

it's honestly embarassing to have Trump as our president.

Trump makes China's actions vis-a-vis Taiwan look entirely reasonable..

[RX792P]

Originally Posted by pxmcc

ok, so war games prove that we are no match for China in a battle over Taiwan. i accept that premise, with the exception of our subs, which, imo, would give us a narrow but hard fought and costly victory.

what about a new model of how to fight that war. China directly threatens Taiwan, Japan, the Philippines, Vietnam, Malaysia, Brunei, Indonesia, Bhutan, Nepal, and India, and indirectly threatens South Korea and Australia. all those countries could wait for war to show up on their shores or land, but which of them has the slightest chance one on one versus China? none, not even Japan. but if all those countries, plus the U.S., fought as a single unit, knowing that China is going to come for them eventually one way or another, they would be more than a match for China.

take a look at the world military rankings of the 2 sides: China is ranked at 3, but i don't buy that, let's say #2 just a hair behind the U.S., versus, potentially:

U.S. at #1
India #4
S. Korea #5
Japan #8
Indonesia #13
Australia #18
Taiwan #22
Vietnam #23
Philippines #41
Malaysia #42

and potentially,
UK #6
France #7
Germany #14

what chance would China, allied potentially with North Korea at #34-Russia is too bogged down in Ukraine-have against such an alliance? none.

the goal is to prevent war. how do you do that? by making it clear to China that they will lose. how do you do that? by explicitly forming a defensive alliance, a western Pacific version of NATO. then you invite as many NATO allies as are willing to join-Britain, France, Germany, etc. now you have an international allied armada that China has no chance against. China will huff and puff but at the end of the day, they can't and won't do a damn thing, because they won't start a war they know they will lose. they want to take Taiwan without breaking a sweat.

the way you show that resolve is with multi-nation naval exercises in the Taiwan Strait, and on the east coast of Taiwan. that way China gets the memo: you come for Taiwan, this is what you will face. certain defeat..

we can't afford to lose Taiwan to the Chinese. the consequences will be catastrophic. but there is no time to lose.

we have a job for the Trump Admin and Marco Rubio to assemble such an alliance. will they do it? with Trump's current irrational obsession with Venezuela, who knows..

edit: TWK, i said war games prove this. i don't think war games are entirely accurate. i specifically stated that with our subs, i predict we win in a costly 1-on-1. the better question is, how do we prevent China from attacking in the first place. to guarantee certain defeat..

Historical reference...
SEATO (Southeast Asia Treaty Organization) was a Cold War-era collective defense treaty and organization (1954-1977) formed by the U.S., France, Britain, Australia, New Zealand, Pakistan, the Philippines, and Thailand to counter communist expansion in Southeast Asia, particularly after French Indochina's collapse, but it struggled with internal divisions and ultimately dissolved, failing to prevent communist victories in the region like Vietnam.

In essence, SEATO was Southeast Asia's answer to NATO, designed to create a security bloc against communism, but it ultimately proved less robust and was disbanded as its strategic purpose faded.

[pxmcc]

great info RX!

let's make SEATO great again..

Originally Posted by RX792P

Historical reference...
SEATO (Southeast Asia Treaty Organization) was a Cold War-era collective defense treaty and organization (1954-1977) formed by the U.S., France, Britain, Australia, New Zealand, Pakistan, the Philippines, and Thailand to counter communist expansion in Southeast Asia, particularly after French Indochina's collapse, but it struggled with internal divisions and ultimately dissolved, failing to prevent communist victories in the region like Vietnam.

In essence, SEATO was Southeast Asia's answer to NATO, designed to create a security bloc against communism, but it ultimately proved less robust and was disbanded as its strategic purpose faded.

[Precious_b]

Originally Posted by texassapper

No.. in the end, unless China decides to discipline their lawyers via execution, the lawyers are going to win...

That's why we will need a dictator here as well at some point. We are in a judicial tyranny and they need to be weeded out.

Its coming.

We had hoped Trump was the guy to do it... but he isn't.

We need Hitler 3.0 since Hitler 2.0 isn't getting anybody arrested let alone onto the cattle cars...

Originally Posted by Tiny

rotflmao!

Now, now, tiny. The tejas digger does have a point.
Thanks to mitch and a compliant donny, the judicial system in this country is in a tyrannical state. Just like the orange one wants so as to have his dictatorship.

Originally Posted by texassapper

To run landing craft ashore, you will want LOW tide... The Taiwanese have boat obstacles under the surf on beaches where an assault is likely. Hence the ChiComs building a new class of landing craft..
...

Guess that's how Mac did it at Inchon, eh?
What does a person you label a libby know?
Disregard. Don't need to veer this thing off topic.

Originally Posted by Tiny

...
Right now, China's GDP adjusted for purchasing power is about 1/3rd larger than ours. They produce and consume multiples more cement and steel per capita than we ever did. China's far ahead of the USA in critical minerals and materials, and green energy technology. Also in shipbuilding, rail, robotics and lots of other sectors.

Militarily their navy has more ships than ours does, and they can crank them out a hell of a lot faster. Yeah, maybe we have more aircraft carriers, but what difference does that make when one of their hypersonic missiles (they lead in that technology too) can put an aircraft carrier out of action? You name it, ammunition, drones, artillery, whatever, China if it sets its mind to it will outproduce the USA.

As an astute friend of mine who's a military buff said, on this very subject, one German Tiger tank could take out six of our Shermans in World War II. But the 7th Sherman is going to get the Tiger. Germany couldn't compete with the men and machines that the USA and Russia could put out.

Again, they're just as smart as we are, and they've got a much larger population.

The best option is to get along with China. Remember advice that Texas Republican Gubernatorial candidate Clayton Williams once offered about rape and bad weather: "If it's inevitable, just sit back, relax and enjoy it."

China has the manpower and resources. And their tech is nothing to slouch at. But tech can be asymetric and a force multiplier. Where the orange dumbshit in office fucked up royally is in turning away the brains that normally come to the USA and benefit *our* high tech industries by their work in those advanced schools, where again the fat bloated fuck up in chief has cut funding do to his microscopically thin skin and ego.

We have benefitted in the past by having the brains here AND innovation to use such grey matter to make terrific advances. In other countries with near same setup, they have not done so well. This country will be royally screwed when they can think outside the box as well as we have in the past.

So far, from some examples i've seen from other countries that are in competition with the USA, they have tried to emulate us in aspects. Russia (and china) comes to mind. They have a carriers. But the russian one is plagued with problems. And it ain't nuclear (also like the current chinese one) and it fails to do what the USA one does, project power around the globe. For russia, that is a big waste of resources. And for the tank analogy to tech. The germans were overly complicated and not extremely powerful in the engine design and that made it have reliability issues. As far as *I* know, we haven't had that issue with mobile armour. Even some of the older stuff performs well.

Originally Posted by The_Waco_Kid

it proves no such thing. chinese hypersonic weapons are unproven in battle and the Russian's failed tests and actual losses in Ukraine prove these aren't the "super weapons" Russia and China want the west to think they are.
...

True. But if in the future the 23 province comes under chinas control, there is a lot of tech they will gain.

Originally Posted by pxmcc

the latest from Trump worries me (from Politico):

"Trump told reporters this week that he was not informed of the military exercise in advance but brushed off concerns because China has been 'doing naval exercises for 20 years in that area.'
...

What do you expect?!?! That FAT FUCK doesn't even bother to pay attention to the intelligence briefings.