Is it ever allowable to request a service and not pay for that service?

[googol^googol]

Originally Posted by Whispers

It is a reasonable question sir, however the OP has asked for a discussion of generalities and is not looking for a solution to a specific issue

Thank you, for appreciating my truly sincere belief that issues are most productively discussed in general principles. I wish the person who first referred to a specific situation in this thread would have shared with us that sincere interest in discussing ideas rather than rehashing personal disputes.

[Whispers]

Originally Posted by googol^googol

Thank you, for appreciating my truly sincere belief that issues are most productively discussed in general principles. I wish the person who first referred to a specific situation in this thread would have shared with us that sincere interest in discussing ideas rather than rehashing personal disputes.

You can't suggest that "posts implied it was OK for someone to not pay for services" and not expect some rebuttal. You also quoted something I said so in essence you pulled the specifics into play with your OP.

My addressing the setup of the premise was minimal and I dealt with most of what you put out in a general manner using your examples.

Should we continue to debate the specifics or work with the generalities?

[rockerrick]

Originally Posted by lookn4boobies

Hmmm.....


As entertaining, and semi- informative, some of this shit is...


fuck..

You guys do not get out much...

Rikki, before you chime in, your mom says your curfew is, 1 am, you dont want to piss her off...


Party on Guys!

Poor lookn4boobies lookn4attention, just change your handle to lookn4vagina and look down, you'll find what you're lookn4........

[Still Looking]

It's NEVER OK to NOT pay for a session! I have experienced and written about just about EVERY scam one can imagine. They start to repeat themselves and I can usually spot them a mile away. Guess what eliminates EVERY SINGLE ONE?

NOT PAYING UP FRONT!

I almost ALWAYS schedule hour sessions. If I get my load dropped she gets paid. If its a shitty session or she smells like a three day dead tuna ass raped by a skunk or has shitty skills I'll write it in a review or post in the ML. But she did her job and gets paid.

This BS she didn't suck just right or she is MSOG and I only got off once if fucking BULL SHIT!

When you show up if she is NOT what you expected, meaning her pictures are outdated, she put on weight, wrong hair color, large ass, wrong race, not even the same person.... simply say "who are you?" Tell her you are NOT what I expected and LEAVE! 95% of the ladies want the cash but DO NOT want to have a session with someone who does NOT want to be with them. If you want to be a nice guy give her $20-$50 and move on down the road. Who need the problems! REASEARCH is your best friend!

[shayla84]

It is never ok to not pay for the play, your basically justifing it and saying us ladys when you put down the money, if you stink, are too large, have a shitty attitude, or what ever we can take our money and tell you to get the fuck out of our house or hotel or what have you, same thing just switched, so be careful what you say cause if that happens no ones gonna feel bad when you complain she took her money and left.

[FoulRon]

Originally Posted by Still Looking

It's NEVER OK to NOT pay for a session! I have experienced and written about just about EVERY scam one can imagine. They start to repeat themselves and I can usually spot them a mile away. Guess what eliminates EVERY SINGLE ONE?

NOT PAYING UP FRONT!

I almost ALWAYS schedule hour sessions. If I get my load dropped she gets paid. If its a shitty session or she smells like a three day dead tuna ass raped by a skunk or has shitty skills I'll write it in a review or post in the ML. But she did her job and gets paid.

This BS she didn't suck just right or she is MSOG and I only got off once if fucking BULL SHIT!

When you show up if she is NOT what you expected, meaning her pictures are outdated, she put on weight, wrong hair color, large ass, wrong race, not even the same person.... simply say "who are you?" Tell her you are NOT what I expected and LEAVE! 95% of the ladies want the cash but DO NOT want to have a session with someone who does NOT want to be with them. If you want to be a nice guy give her $20-$50 and move on down the road. Who need the problems! REASEARCH is your best friend!

I beleive I said it more succinctly and stuck more to the generality requested by the OP, but:
True dat, dawg!

[Camille Fox]

I don't care what your "intentions" are... To not pay for services once they were rendered is not acceptable. It doesn't matter if you didn't mean to stay for whatever reason. Once you make that choice, you need to pay.

In my opinion, same goes for providers. I've had a few occasions in which I had to regroup, remember the client was not only paying for the visit but that he deserved to have a good time, and got my mind back in the game. The situations that would justify ending a session are, for me, based on safety, and I cannot think of one time that it has happened. Letting the client know something is not ok has being very effective.

To place any blame on the provider for getting robbed because she did not collect the donation upfront is like blaming a victim of a crime for instigating that crime. That's some backward thinking. We are all responsible for our individual choices. If you go to an Incall and the provider steals your wallet, is that your fault? I would NEVER touch anyone's property just because it is there. I never heard of a thief getting a lesser punishment because the property he stole was less or more guarded.

To not provide after being paid falls under not paying after being provided. Theft.

[ztonk]

Originally Posted by Camille Fox

To not pay for services once they were rendered is not acceptable. It doesn't matter if you didn't mean to stay for whatever reason. Once you make that choice, you need to pay.

If we change your wording to be "To not pay for the agreed upon services once they were rendered..." then I agree with your summary.

However, if I book an hour appointment and end up staying for two, and there is no mention of going over time or "extending the session" during the session, I'm not obligated to pay you extra.

If you charge $50 for an extra service (Greek, BBBJ, soup and grilled cheese sandwich, etc.) and I state I am not interested in that service when I book, then if you subsequently provide it during the session (again, without mentioning "adding it" or an "additional charge") I don't think I'm obligated to pay for that either.

After all, you are the professional in this arrangement, I'm just the customer. You manage the time and services rendered.

z

[Camille Fox]

Originally Posted by ztonk

If we change your wording to be "To not pay for the agreed upon services once they were rendered..." then I agree with your summary.

However, if I book an hour appointment and end up staying for two, and there is no mention of going over time or "extending the session" during the session, I'm not obligated to pay you extra.

If you charge $50 for an extra service (Greek, BBBJ, soup and grilled cheese sandwich, etc.) and I state I am not interested in that service when I book, then if you subsequently provide it during the session (again, without mentioning "adding it" or an "additional charge") I don't think I'm obligated to pay for that either.

After all, you are the professional in this arrangement, I'm just the customer. You manage the time and services rendered.

z

So, just to make it clear, if you are with a professional, who you know is CHARGING for her time and you know that certain services may be extra (Greek, for example), and during the appt (even if not agreed before the appt) you ask for the services and time YOU KNOW SHE CHARGES FOR (after all, she is a professional), and she agrees to extend you an hr or agrees to do Greek, but does not stop and say "look, you know this is going to cost you, right?", you don't feel like you should pay her?

I call bs. After all, you went in knowing she charges for time and she charges for certain addt'l services. I personally HATE discussing $$ during appts. It is a huge turn off. I believe my gents know I pay my bills with their patronage. If they want more time or Greek (which is the only service I charge extra for), they know it is extra. We are not dating here.




Camille

[Still Looking]

Originally Posted by FoulRon

I beleive I said it more succinctly and stuck more to the generality requested by the OP, but:
True dat, dawg!

So same thing only different!

[Still Looking]

Originally Posted by ztonk

If we change your wording to be "To not pay for the agreed upon services once they were rendered..." then I agree with your summary.

However, if I book an hour appointment and end up staying for two, and there is no mention of going over time or "extending the session" during the session, I'm not obligated to pay you extra.

If you charge $50 for an extra service (Greek, BBBJ, soup and grilled cheese sandwich, etc.) and I state I am not interested in that service when I book, then if you subsequently provide it during the session (again, without mentioning "adding it" or an "additional charge") I don't think I'm obligated to pay for that either.

After all, you are the professional in this arrangement, I'm just the customer. You manage the time and services rendered.

z

Foot Note: any beautiful young lady who forgets to mention she has a "DICK"..... all bets are off!

[Whispers]

Originally Posted by Camille Fox

So, just to make it clear, if you are with a professional, who you know is CHARGING for her time and you know that certain services may be extra (Greek, for example), and during the appt (even if not agreed before the appt) you ask for the services and time YOU KNOW SHE CHARGES FOR (after all, she is a professional), and she agrees to extend you an hr or agrees to do Greek, but does not stop and say "look, you know this is going to cost you, right?", you don't feel like you should pay her?

I call bs. After all, you went in knowing she charges for time and she charges for certain addt'l services. I personally HATE discussing $$ during appts. It is a huge turn off. I believe my gents know I pay my bills with their patronage. If they want more time or Greek (which is the only service I charge extra for), they know it is extra. We are not dating here.

Camille

We will need to agree to disagree here....

I'm with Z on this subject...... If a guy asks for a hour GFE MSOG session and is expecting to pay the fee and half way through with a raging hardon, caught in the "moment" a provider flips over and tells him..... Fuck me in the ass baby"...... She has him at a disadvantage mentally at the moment and whether or not he does it there is no responsibility for him to pay the up charge..... Same with extra time...... If she does not bring the session to an end don't be expecting the average guy to hop up and leave or be expecting to be paid for it.....

In line with other "business" comparisons....... I KNOW when I go out to dinner that everything has a price..... but if with my steak the waiter decides to bring me the Sauteed mushrooms and onions I did not ask for and then the chef comes out and insists we HAVE to try the molten fudge lava cake...... I didn't order it... I'm not paying for it.....

It's good business to offer up a little extra at times to build a regular client in any kind of business.....

SO if you want to and expect to be TREATED as a professional than be one.

What is your opinion on the $250 an hour MSOG girl that 30 minutes into a session after 1 pop is getting dressed and ready for her next appointment? This happens a lot and is a regular complaint many guys come up with....

Where do you fall on that? Or a GFE provider "that is not feeling it" and simply "gets him hard, gets him in, gets him off and gets him out"...... If when she counts the envelope it's $100 short does she have a right to make an issue out of it?

[Whispers]

Originally Posted by Still Looking

Foot Note: any beautiful young lady who forgets to mention she has a "DICK"..... all bets are off!

You see a lot of newbies..... There is not always a lot of info available on them....... You walk into an incall and the absolutely gorgeous person waiting lays a kiss on you, presses a finger to your lips and says.... shhhhhhh... drops to knees and sucks you till your dry....... back against the door,,,,,,, smiles and says... now we can chat a little and you can tell me all about what else you want.....

THEN YOU FIND OUT HE'S PRE OR POST OP TS........

Is he getting paid? If so how much?

[ztonk]

Originally Posted by Camille Fox

So, just to make it clear, if you are with a professional, who you know is CHARGING for her time and you know that certain services may be extra (Greek, for example), and during the appt (even if not agreed before the appt) you ask for the services and time YOU KNOW SHE CHARGES FOR (after all, she is a professional), and she agrees to extend you an hr or agrees to do Greek, but does not stop and say "look, you know this is going to cost you, right?", you don't feel like you should pay her?

You're twisting my scenario. I didn't ask her if I could stay longer, nor did I ask or imply by my actions that I was interested in Greek, or a BBBJ, or the soup and sandwich. If she voluntarily provides those for whatever reason, I don't think I'm under any additional financial obligation to her.

How many times has a lady provided an extra to a guy that she likes/wants to get repeat business from?

z

[ztonk]

Originally Posted by Whispers

You see a lot of newbies..... There is not always a lot of info available on them....... You walk into an incall and the absolutely gorgeous person waiting lays a kiss on you, presses a finger to your lips and says.... shhhhhhh... drops to knees and sucks you till your dry....... back against the door,,,,,,, smiles and says... now we can chat a little and you can tell me all about what else you want.....

THEN YOU FIND OUT HE'S PRE OR POST OP TS........

Is he getting paid? If so how much?

Hey SL.... you can answer this one hypothetically...


z