Indys new vouch requirements

[cabot]

Originally Posted by bambino

I'm not sure what our community can do about it. Indys built a better mouse trap for the WPa/Ohio turf. Seems like a majority of local hobbyists and providers still believe in the vouch system.

I think Bambino is spot on. Bottom line - most hobbyists appear to prefer the Indys model; provider-centric site, hobbyist reviews that are (mostly) good for only prices/services offered, and a vouch system that moderates risk of LE/ripoff. ASPD was a very hobbyist-centric site, and in the end, it turns out that wasn't as popular among hobbyists themselves.

Now that Indys is attempting to monetize the vouch system, it will be interesting to see how that changes the relative value for most hobbyists. As the biggest site, they have hobbyist intertia on their side, but these are not minor changes. I'm not really sure how it will play out, of course, but I find it fascinating to watch.

[Pistolero]

Originally Posted by bambino

You have to pay for green status only. Just as you have to pay one way or another for PA here. It's basically the same for both sites. Only green hobbyists get guys room access on Indys. .

Sorry, it is not basically the same. You have to reach in your pocket and pay cash money to get guys room access on Indys. Cash money. You are also going to have to get 3 vouches from providers, I believe.

Here, you go see one "provider' ( could be a BP handjob) and you can write a review and get access.

And, as has been proved more than once, our board is as safe as Indys. Some may not believe it, but when the so called safe vouched members are members of LE and working, not playing, it is not safe. We say straight up, do not feel safe because a member is on here.

Here is a question. And I do not require an answer or the answer can be by PM. I have no plans to be in PGH soon. But , if I did , maybe I would want to meet a provider. I do not have a landline. Because of my position as a mod here, would this make me safe for someone like dames4u to schedule?

I have a great reputation on ASPD, Eccie, Eraps and I even have reviews on Indys.. I was a green there til the fee came up.

Providers need to do their screening in a way to make them comfortable. If I was doing screening, a persons board persona would be a large part, but might not be a end all. Someone having a green square sure
would not do it for me.

[dames4u]

While I agree that ECCIE is a hobbyist-centric site I never really bought the argument that indys was a "provider-centric" site. It was always a PI-centric site.

Yes Bambino is right about the better mousetrap. It was a brilliant system and that was the key to it's successs. It attracted providers because it offered free/cheap advertising and a simple alternative to screening. And the hobbyists came for the providers and because it allowed them to hobby safely and anonymously.

But that's all over. Anyone who trusts the vouch system to keep them safe now is literally insane. Even if the site survives the upcoming trial it no longer has anything special to offer. If it did people would be lining up to pay their $50----that's a bargain for safety and anonymity.

Indys is in the process of bleeding out. We're talking about it so much not because it's still important but because its demise represents the end of an era, a sea change in hobbying in Pgh. At least that's how I see it. We'll know for sure soon enough.

[BSer]

The fucked up thing is 90% of providers on Indys have no clue how to screen potential clients. They are too dependent on the vouch system.

I can volunteer my private dick skills for any lady needing a client screened. Did I say volunteer? I meant trade for bbbjcim.

[Pistolero]

Originally Posted by BSer

The fucked up thing is 90% of providers on Indys have no clue how to screen potential clients. They are too dependent on the vouch system.
Bingo! I believe that. Bring them over here and more guys will come.

I can volunteer my private dick skills for any lady needing a client screened. Did I say volunteer? I meant trade for bbbjcim.
Be sure to register here as a provider before you start doing the BBBJcim

Ladies, do your own screening. DO not trust others to do it fo ryou.

[bambino]

Originally Posted by Pistolero

Sorry, it is not basically the same. You have to reach in your pocket and pay cash money to get guys room access on Indys. Cash money. You are also going to have to get 3 vouches from providers, I believe.

Here, you go see one "provider' ( could be a BP handjob) and you can write a review and get access.

And, as has been proved more than once, our board is as safe as Indys. Some may not believe it, but when the so called safe vouched members are members of LE and working, not playing, it is not safe. We say straight up, do not feel safe because a member is on here.

Here is a question. And I do not require an answer or the answer can be by PM. I have no plans to be in PGH soon. But , if I did , maybe I would want to meet a provider. I do not have a landline. Because of my position as a mod here, would this make me safe for someone like dames4u to schedule?

I have a great reputation on ASPD, Eccie, Eraps and I even have reviews on Indys.. I was a green there til the fee came up.

Providers need to do their screening in a way to make them comfortable. If I was doing screening, a persons board persona would be a large part, but might not be a end all. Someone having a green square sure
would not do it for me.

It's basically the same in regards that you have to spend money on both sites to have guys room access. Nobody is forced to do it on either site. The hobbyist has a choice on both sites if they want guys room access. Since I'm still fairly active in the hobby, achieving PA or green status on Indys isn't a big deal either way. My point was P, you're going to pay something on either site for a higher degree of access. Now, Indys should have started this program years ago before the vouch system was proved to be ineffective in regards to LE. It would seem to me it has lost it's value. As to your point about your history of being a hobbyist is valid. It was one of Devos points on Indys. If he was fully vouched last year, and considered safe, why does he have to pay for it this year? Did he just take a job with the FBI? Of course not. They need to raise some money and they can't promote GTGs to do it. So, as Stig once said, the new system is a Kerfuffel, or something like that. Lol

[AmishGangster]

Pisto, dames is a heavy screener, much more than the local scene deals with on a regular basis and even with the traveling I do and the numerous sites I hobby on, I have never been asked for a landline number. That being said I have been asked to submit to employment screening, asked to divulge personal info, etc and I have always refused and moved on to the next choice on my list. While this has happened, it has not happened very often at all. When I first contact a non Indys lady I give her my handle and list all the boards I am a member of, offering to PM her from any of them to prove my authenticity. I include 2 recent references and offer to give more if she wants, she gets my hobby first name, hobby email and hobby phone number. 95% of the time thats that and I am good to go. It certainly helps that I can show a hobby trail back to 2005 and I have well established ladies as references. Same goes in reverse, if I am interested in seeing a chick, if I can trace her handle on whatever site back more than a year or 2, she has 2 or more fairly recent reviews and I cant find any alerts or come up with anything suspicious using google technology I feel she is good to go. In a smaller community like this, if I know someone I trust is legit has seen her then thats good enough too. I saw a girl from Indys today (yes I recruited her, she should be joining us shortly...she had never even heard of Eccie before), she has 1 review there and 2 here, but the 1 there is from a guy I know is legit...that was good enough for me not to worry.

PI has said himself more times than I can count that the vouch system was not designed to replace screening. There are just guys & girls that assume or believe that it does. Since the changes took place there with having to pay to be green I dont think anyone is getting turned down by providers if they are blue.

What Devo has made me think about is not what is happening right now beacuse I think Devo and I can agree that the guys room over there is about one small step above useless, but what will start happening if PI doesnt change the vouch rules like he has said he would. The power of the mighty paid green square as only source of vouching...the only thing about that is does anyone really think the site is going to be around long enough for that to become a reality?

And to answer your question directly Pisto, if you visited Pittsburgh or anywhere else and gave the ho of your choice (BSer or another) your info as you listed I highly doubt you would have many problems and probably wouldnt have to go further down the list than your 2nd choice.

[bambino]

I can't wait to see who Amish recruited. I bet she's a real hottie!!!!!!!! Come to think of it, I went thru Joes screening awhile back. I don't think I gave him a landline. Since I'm the President of my pidly lil company, I was the only one to call. I'm pretty sure that's how it went down.

[AmishGangster]

Originally Posted by bambino

I can't wait to see who Amish recruited.

Its BSer

[bambino]

Originally Posted by amishgangster

Its BSer

Like I said. Not hot.

[Devo]

Originally Posted by cabot

I think Bambino is spot on. Bottom line - most hobbyists appear to prefer the Indys model; provider-centric site, hobbyist reviews that are (mostly) good for only prices/services offered, and a vouch system that moderates risk of LE/ripoff. ASPD was a very hobbyist-centric site, and in the end, it turns out that wasn't as popular among hobbyists themselves.

Now that Indys is attempting to monetize the vouch system, it will be interesting to see how that changes the relative value for most hobbyists. As the biggest site, they have hobbyist intertia on their side, but these are not minor changes. I'm not really sure how it will play out, of course, but I find it fascinating to watch.

What indys had, at the time, and it seems silly now, was pictures.

They were the first to have onsite picture hosting, and it let providers avoid having to find a host, etc.

Plus, the owner at ASPD basically did it for free, and there just wasnt the capital to work with, at as how I understand it.

The most significant difference, was it was started by a provider, to help men find, and force, a better provider.

At Indys, its the exact opposite, with a shitty review system, and a vouch process that limits your pussy if you give bad vouches, everything is in favor of the providers.

[Devo]

Sorry, it is not basically the same. You have to reach in your pocket and pay cash money to get guys room access on Indys. Cash money. You are also going to have to get 3 vouches from providers, I believe.

Unless I am gravely mistaken, only greens can vouch to become a green square.

IOW, I saw a provider who was blue recently, I could not find any method to vouch her, and, neither could she, so, you MUST see three GREEN providers, to get the vouches you need, meaning, if you do get three, its going to cost you 600 bucks, more if you don't get vouches from all of them.

Whats worse is, you can pay cash, and get a green membership, as well as access to the private providers, traveling low key pornstars, and first shot at new meat.

Hell of a way to get in without playing the vouch game, so much for its security, and it probably explains where the missing drug money from drug seizures go, IE, a cop can just buy their way in.

And, green square providers, usually kept their ads in the Vouched only clients area for the most part, that has changed as many are advertising in the public area as well, which means to me, eliminating many greens has made them go public for more business, or, alot don't give a shit who they see.

So much for the power of green.

And Amish hit the nail on the head, its about being forced to see the providers Indys wants you to see, IE, greens to get the vouches.

And the people bitching at anyone who whines about us not paying, guess who? Green providers, and guys who are bought in silver mine guys who dont need vouches. Go figure.

[sexymaid_69]

Originally Posted by Pistolero

Sorry, it is not basically the same. You have to reach in your pocket and pay cash money to get guys room access on Indys. Cash money. You are also going to have to get 3 vouches from providers, I believe.

Here, you go see one "provider' ( could be a BP handjob) and you can write a review and get access.

And, as has been proved more than once, our board is as safe as Indys.

Here is a question. And I do not require an answer or the answer can be by PM. I have no plans to be in PGH soon. But , if I did , maybe I would want to meet a provider. I do not have a landline. Because of my position as a mod here, would this make me safe for someone like dames4u to schedule?
Depends on whom you contact honestly....Some ladies already know you by your personna will look no further,
others will screen you. And screening doesn't always involve as much info as you guys sometimes think.
Personally, it you can prove you are whom you say you are and I can contact a couple of ladies who verify that we're good to go.
And no, a landline isn't always needed.
Sorry Dames. it's true

Providers need to do their screening in a way to make them comfortable. If I was doing screening, a persons board persona would be a large part, but might not be a end all. Someone having a green square sure
would not do it for me.Me either

If I may add a ladies point of view.
And this is my own opinion and no other.

Pistolero is spot on on several points.
eccie is as safe as any site to the folks who take safety seriously, ie, the folks who screen, men and women alike. They make sure they are seeing the real deal and not a flake or worse.

A persons board(s) persona does play a HUGE part in some ladies screening process, if a gentleman is well known on several boards and has several great references a screener may not need to go any further than the references to approve/disapprove that particular person.
A green square should never be the end all and be all to screening, this would ( and does) throw up a red flag for me when trying to screen a gentleman. It is however a great tool from the onset of contact, nothing more.

Basically all boards charge a fee in one form or another, First off, there is no point to be on any board without paying the "fee" to the ladies you see who advertise there. Here it's apparently to get BCD access which can also be obtained for free in increments by writing reviews. I understand a couple others are like that as well.
P411 and Date Check charge a fee if I'm correct yet I see no bitching and moaning about that.
Only about a site which up until recently was free.
I won't even touch any other issues as that's been done to death and is of no worry for those who do their homework.

You can choose to pay or not pay, The ladies are realizing that the color of a square is not everything.
Which IMHO is a terrific step forward.

Personally I think eccie should be glad of the new requirements.
It seems to have caused a lot of folks to consider other sites and outlets for their hobby time. Men and women alike.
A lot of gentlemen I know are considering other sites and retaining the blue square because they do limit the number of ladies they see and not because of a fee.
This can be nothing but a good thing as there can never be too much sharing of knowledge and info.

As for any site being "provider run" vs "client run"
We can agree to disagree on that. I have yet to see a site that was that much one sided.

Again, only my own opinion.

[berryberry]

Originally Posted by bambino

Back on topic. Is Indys new system that much different than here in terms of cash investment? Prolly more expensive here. You can pay $250 for lifetime PA or $100 yearly. If you don't want to pay for PA, you can do an approved review for 6 weeks of PA. You would have to do 8 a year to have PA thru out the year. But you don't get that all important green square vouch status that most local providers require. Just makes it harder for Eccie only hobbyists to see the local providers. I don't get the uproar from some people at Indys about the pay for play deal. It is what it is.

Let's put the money aside for a second

Hmmm, well you have more accurate, truthful reviews here vs the provider friendly fluff that passes off as reviews at Indys

As far as safety goes, as events have shown the vouch system does not assure safety. And I would argue this site is now more safe because everyone here can see and post alerts. Whereas at Indys only a small number (ie green squares) can post and read alerts. So if a red or blue square has alert info at Indys, oh well, no alert gets posted.

As far as local providers requiring a green square. Well since I turned blue, no one has yet to turn me down.

Now as to money, if you post reviews here, there is no cost. I guess you can say there is a cost in seeing the provider to get the review material - but you can go see ANY provider, not some small group. Whereas at Indys there not only is the $50 cost but the requirement to see 3 providers from a certain small group.

Oh, and of course there are the pending money laundering and other charges against Indys

So yes there are differences - pretty substantial ones IMO

[bambino]

Ok you fucking kumquats, I'll try again to Splain the economics between Eccie and Indys. This comparo is based on 1 year PA or guys room status. I usually do 1/2hr sessions at an average cost of $150.00 ea. and I pay cash money for them. I have no idea how Pistoleros pays his HOs.

Indys: 3X$150 =$450.00 +$50.00 = $500.00 cash money for 1yr guys room access

ECCIE. 1 accepted review = 6 weeks PA, therefore you need at least 8 approved reviews for 12 months PA. 8X$150 = $1200.00 cash money or you can pay $250.00 cash money for lifetime PA or $100.00 cash money for 1year PA

There you have it. You have more options on ECCIE but it still costs CASH MONEY.

Also, I've seen 4 green vouched Indys providers since November 2013 and I'm no longer a member there. There are several on ECCIE as well. They're not difficult to book with.

Fuckin Cash Money