Quote:
Originally Posted by lustylad
Huh? What choice did he have? The South seceded, was that Lincoln's fault? He preserved the Union. Yeah, the cost was enormous, but if you apply the same logic then FDR was an awful President for navigating us through a global conflict in which 418,000 Americans died.
WD is obviously trolling us by ranking Lincoln last. Don't take the bait.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by winn dixie
Why should I do your work? Those posts are all in these hallowed icky forums.
But to humor myself ill repost what I believe.
Fdr created the welfare state. Also he created big govt. That big govt was from the new deal. Again creating dependents on govt. His mishandling of Japan's rising power. He failed in getting America's military ready and entered ww2 damn near too late!
Now for the traitor lincoln. He failed to keep the US together. He wanted that war with the south. He drove the south to secede. He was a complete failure at all levels and domestic and foreign. Lincoln was a true liberal to the core. Yes he was republican. But the parties switched beliefs beginning in the fifties thru early 80s. So he wasn't really what we call a republican today. His crimes against his own people are unarguable. He is the most over rated politician in our history. Historians fail to teach the truth about Lincoln. He personally gave the orders to his generals in 63 to start burning towns in the south and destroy crops and farms. Lincoln was an arsonist treasonous murderer.
That's just getting started on that evil Lincoln. Lincoln is the worst president ever. Trumpf is second worst then fdr. Polk Jefferson grant and Jackson round out my worst list.
Ohh and do a little reading about lincoln and his wife not sleeping together! And why!
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I may know more about energy policy in the Carter administration than anybody here, but you two can run circles around me in presidential history.
Peace and prosperity are the two goals I’d like our leaders to pay the most attention to. By those criteria, Lincoln and FDR were abysmal failures. But how much of that was their fault? Would the Civil War and American participation in World War II have happened, with them or without them?
IF he’d had the power to do it, what if Lincoln hadn’t shoveled soldiers into Fort Sumter? What if he’d made a push to bring the south back into the union peacefully, say by buying off slaveowners and lowering tariffs on manufactured goods? Would he have been successful? Would northern politicians and the public have allowed it?
Or what if the south had been allowed to secede? How would have things panned out? Would slavery have disappeared from the South in fairly short order anyway? Or would it have dragged on for another 25 years, like it did in Cuba and Brazil? Would the South today be more of an agrarian society and poorer than it is today? Or without reconstruction would it be wealthier? How about race relations and the economic position of blacks versus whites in the South. Would that be better or worse?
I could pose similar questions about FDR, and would be genuinely interested in anything LustyLad in particular, given his background in economics, has to say about the plusses and minuses of the New Deal and the shift towards Keynesianism that occurred under FDR.
This is above my paygrade gentlemen. I have no problem denigrating Biden and Trump, for very different reasons, but have no idea how to rank Lincoln and FDR.
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